Upgrade to 16" or better 18"?

[Borg666]

Hello Folks, 

I'm a Ninebot One S2 (S1) Rider and pretty satisfied with that package, especially regarding it's movability and handling. 

But I'm missing a little *whoom* and therefore I'm thinking over to switch to something like V8 or KS-16S...  in the first place. 

Now I read the rumours about the announced shiny new KS-18L or Ninebot Z, both 18 Inch. 

So, what is your option, should I Upgrade to 16" - or even better to 18"? What are the advantages/disadvantages? 

What about the riding comfort (e.g. City ride,  long distance ride, gravel road, bumpy road etc) - are there big differences between 16" and 18" or do they behave more or less pretty similar? 

Will a 18 inch wheel be suitable for inner City usage or is it much less movable/agile, compared to a 16 inch Model?

Thank you for you opinions/experiences

Rgds, Borg

[ir_fuel]

It's always a compromise. 18" will be more stable, will handle imperfections in the road a lot better. 16" will be more agile and lighter. I presume you will have to see what your main purpose is. Of course you can ride in the city with an 18", but a smaller wheel will be easier. If you do long cruises a bigger wheel will be better at that.

I would look at your 80% usage. The other 20% both a 16" and 18" will do well enough not to frustrate you.

I wouldn't upgrade to a V8. 

IMO

[Borg666]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

[...]

I wouldn't upgrade to a V8. 

IMO

Thanks for your reply. 

Why no V8 - because it's 16" or because it's a V8?  ;-) 

Recommended alternatives for V8? 

[mezzanine]

My opinion: don't get the 18" wheel.  Your usage sounds similar to mine and the lower weight and added convenience features with the 16" wheels makes them superior city wheels. 

I personally have the V8 and find it very well-matched to my needs, but I'm not in need of range or power so convenience features and overall quality are much more significant for me. 

My recommendation for best overall wheel right now is the 16S.  I find it tempting even though it's similar in many ways to the V8 I already have.  I'm not sure variety (18")  is the best way to go with a second wheel.   

[ir_fuel]

24 minutes ago, Borg666 said:

Thanks for your reply. 

Why no V8 - because it's 16" or because it's a V8?  ;-) 

Recommended alternatives for V8? 

I have a V8 myself. I "think" the difference between what you currently have and a V8 will be too small.

 

BTW where in Germany are you if you don't mind me asking?  

[Kael]

If you need your wheel to commute right now, get an 18 incher. If you ride for pleasure but might want to go long distance in the future, buy a 16 inch and then later on perhaps buy an 18 incher to complement it. 

[Borg666]

Thank you again for your fast and helpful replies! I have to admit - this community simply is amazing!  

Yes, I'm riding a lot just for fun - through the City, Beergarden at weekend companied by my Partner by E-Bike (pretty hard to stick to the bike :-/ ). Distances of 8 km or more become pretty stressful on this 14 incher, IMHO,  and my workplace is at 9.5 km distance. :-/

Meanwhile my 13 yrs old daughter just jumped in our Unicycle Trip as well. My idea is to pass her my One S2 - and go for an additonal one...   riding together is more fun anyway.  

At the moment I'm a little more sympathetic with a KS-16S, overall. 

[ir_fuel]

KS16S will do the trick, IMO.

[houseofjob]

IMHO after going through 11 (going on 12) EUCs of all shapes and sizes:

 

EUC Comfort = Tire Width + Pedal Size

Maneuverability = Personal Skill/Technique + Personal Willingness to Learn

 

For reference, I'm perfectly fine and maneuverable traveling everyday in New York City on my 30MPH, 22" x 2.75" tire Gotway Monster (both in stop-and-go city car traffic and on slow pedestrian sidewalk transfers).

 

Some personal observations:

• Most people I've encountered claiming 16" is the perfect size for maneuverability+comfort simply don't bother to learn larger EUCs. And yes, you need to "re-learn" and adjust to a larger wheel; the physics change as your center of mass / balance rises up your body with the larger EUC. Just because you can ride a 16", does not mean you have the same skills to ride 18" or 22". (I've seen many long-time EUC guys look like they don't even know how to ride an EUC trying my 18" KS18A or 22" Monster..... and FWIW, it's fine if you don't want to learn bigger wheels,.... or bear the added EUC weight burden).
• That said, I've put in the hours and can maneuver my 22" just as well as my 10" MTen3, relatively speaking. Adjusting to slow-moving pedestrian traffic is not an issue for me on my Monster.
• And that said, because bigger wheels naturally want to move faster, I tend to want to ride alongside cars more than on sidewalks (too slow) riding the Monster, whereas I seek out more sidewalks when on my 10" MTen3, more than roads (often traffic is too fast).
• I actually wish my Monster was wider, now that the NB1Z will be 4" wide! I strongly believe the 2.75" wideness of my MTen3 tire (same as the Monster) is why there is no issue riding it on the pot-hole filled streets of New York

 

Sorry for the mini-rant, but basically IMHO, unless you need a lighter (lifting), more compact (storage) wheel, or are unwilling to learn a bigger EUC, I would say bigger (really wider) is always better.

Smaller wheels, ala 16", again IMHO, are not necessarily more maneuverable, but rather are easier to learn maneuverability.

(think about it: many new EUC beginners buy a wheel and cannot learn how to ride, so they claim it is impossible to do (just read some Ninebot Amazon customer reviews), whereas another person (like all of you), pick up that same wheel and learn how to ride just fine)

Edited November 2, 2017 by houseofjob

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

11 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

For reference, I'm perfectly fine and maneuverable traveling everyday in New York City on my 30MPH, 22" x 2.75" tire Gotway Monster (both in stop-and-go city car traffic and on slow pedestrian sidewalk transfers).

Video.  We need video.     It's difficult to imagine being able to slalom a heavy weight like the Monster as well as a Mten3.

12 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

, I would say bigger (really wider) is always better.

That's what she said.  

[houseofjob]

5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Video.  We need video.     It's difficult to imagine being able to slalom a heavy weight like the Monster as well as a Mten3.

I'm still a bit video-lazy. Does @Citi Wheel's video of me slaloming on the Monster seated work?

 

8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

That's what she said.  

That's what she said.

[LanghamP]

I'm almost with @houseofjob with bigger is better (that's what she said) with some serious reservations.

-A crash on a heavier wheel is more damaging to the wheel. 

-Harder to carry over steps.

I find my bigger wheels to be more nimble because I have the confidence to chuck it in and really lean it over, or hang off the bigger wheel ala sportbike.

I personally would wait until the 18 comes out since it is apparently the weight of the KS16, so you get the benefit of the safety and agility of the bigger wheel but the weight of the smaller wheel.

By the way, my little KS14c gets ridden everyday, more often but on shorter trips than my KS16 and MSuper. KS14s is possibly the perfect urban wheel.

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, LanghamP said:

I'm almost with @houseofjob with bigger is better (that's what she said)

that's what she said

 

1 minute ago, LanghamP said:

-A crash on a heavier wheel is more damaging to the wheel. 

Yup, always a concern for sure. Need to be even more vigilant; world-is-out-to-hit-me mentality while riding

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

I'm almost with @houseofjob with bigger is better (that's what she said) with some serious reservations.

-A crash on a heavier wheel is more damaging to the wheel. 

-Harder to carry over steps.

I find my bigger wheels to be more nimble because I have the confidence to chuck it in and really lean it over, or hang off the bigger wheel ala sportbike.

I personally would wait until the 18 comes out since it is apparently the weight of the KS16, so you get the benefit of the safety and agility of the bigger wheel but the weight of the smaller wheel.

By the way, my little KS14c gets ridden everyday, more often but on shorter trips than my KS16 and MSuper. KS14s is possibly the perfect urban wheel.

I've only crashed my Monster once over ~600 miles, and it damaged the shell, snapped screws, etc. And this was a 2-mph crash where it basically fell over. I can only imagine what would happen to it if I crashed at 10-mph, let alone 20+ mph.

[ir_fuel]

I don't get it guys.

All these euc fans here, and nobody stated the obvious, I would even say something a lot of us do here already?

 

JUST

GET

BOTH

 

 

[Meng Yang]

To OP, despite all the great advice everyone has given, the best thing to do is still to actually go test out the wheel you're likely to upgrade to before really knowing what you want.

From my V8, I thought I'd like to go faster, so was quite sure I wanna go 18. Then moment I tried the MSuper V3S+, I knew that's not what I wanted (for various reasons, some peculiar only to me). Then I tried the GT16, and knew I wanna stay with 16. Thus, I've purchased the Tesla.

Well, go test ride the actual wheel itself. Hit up a group ride, and borrow others' wheel for a test ride. Or go a reputable shop for test rides of the various models. That's the best way to be sure.

[Borg666]

Thanks Folks!

@houseofjob I got your point regarding size and comfort, which actually matters to me.
Fun fact: These weird customer reviews  on Amazon are related to my actual Ninebot One S2/S1. I have it for  about 7 weeks now and managed to ride it within a few days - so my 13 yrs old daughter did as well!

@Meng Yang I totally agree with you, a Test drive would be the best way to figure out which wheel to take - but actually I've got the feeling of beeing the only EUC guy within a 50 miles range.     BTW, is someone from bavaria out here?  

That's the reason, beside the much lower prices, why I plan to buy that wheel directly from China. 

[eddiemoy]

I upgraded from the Ninebot to a KS16.  The difference is amazing.  The KS16 feels solid and also the peddle clearance is better and allowed for tighter turns.  The KS16 also has a perfectly placed trolly handle.  When I need to bring it into a store, I grab the KS16.  If I know I'm going to ride for a longer time, more than an hour or two, I prefer to grab the KS18S because it has a seat.  You do have to put some time into learning the seated position, but it isn't that difficult.  It was much easier for me to adjust to the KS18S than the Msuper.  I hate the Msuper, it is top heavy and very weird feeling, that is why I'm selling it.  My personal opinion is that the Msuper is designed wrong and I'm not going to spend time adjusting to a flawed design.  I'm very interested in the KS18L because it is just like the KS16 but bigger.

If you are considering the V8, the KS16S is a much better wheel.  I actually think that if King Song could figure out how to put a trolly handle on a KS18S, that would be the perfect wheel for me.  Everyones needs are different and you have to figure out what yours are.  Or get both the KS16S and the KS18S.  LOL

[EUCGUY]

18 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I upgraded from the Ninebot to a KS16.  The difference is amazing.  The KS16 feels solid and also the peddle clearance is better and allowed for tighter turns.  The KS16 also has a perfectly placed trolly handle.  When I need to bring it into a store, I grab the KS16.  If I know I'm going to ride for a longer time, more than an hour or two, I prefer to grab the KS18S because it has a seat.  You do have to put some time into learning the seated position, but it isn't that difficult.  It was much easier for me to adjust to the KS18S than the Msuper.  I hate the Msuper, it is top heavy and very weird feeling, that is why I'm selling it.  My personal opinion is that the Msuper is designed wrong and I'm not going to spend time adjusting to a flawed design.  I'm very interested in the KS18L because it is just like the KS16 but bigger.

If you are considering the V8, the KS16S is a much better wheel.  I actually think that if King Song could figure out how to put a trolly handle on a KS18S, that would be the perfect wheel for me.  Everyones needs are different and you have to figure out what yours are.  Or get both the KS16S and the KS18S.  LOL

Ive been using the msuper v3s+ daily since i got it. 2040km on it now, got it 11th july. I think it is a fantastic wheel in both the performance, comfort and stability aspect. Its so easy to ride both fast and slow in the city or on the open road. Because it is so big, it takes time for it to change direction and that allows me to do small and slow movements to keep balance. I dont agree at all that is is a bad design. It is as simple of a design there is to make room for the batteries. Its just a square with runded corners. The batteries are in the middle and directly over the axel, yeah its top-heavy, but thats definitly something you want for stability. Unless you know how to stand on a bigger wheel and have spent some time to re-adjust your riding style, this wheel will feel strange, but once you learn it is an amazing wheel. I can tell you that riding fast in tight turns over uneven terrain is a challance with a smaller wheel such as the 16" kingsong or acm because the wheels jump around and are easy to twist during turns. With the 18", the bigger wheel,larger tire,high shell with more weight makes this a totally different experience. It stays put and stable in the forward direction even if it jumps around. Turning requires more force from the user and its not enought to just shift the weight with the feets, the rider has to lean in hard and push the wheel with them using one of the legs. Because more force is nessesary, its more stable and safer to ride.

 

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, EU GUY said:

Ive been using the msuper v3s+ daily since i got it. 2040km on it now, got it 11th july. I think it is a fantastic wheel in both the performance, comfort and stability aspect. Its so easy to ride both fast and slow in the city or on the open road. Because it is so big, it takes time for it to change direction and that allows me to do small and slow movements to keep balance. I dont agree at all that is is a bad design. It is as simple of a design there is to make room for the batteries. Its just a square with runded corners. The batteries are in the middle and directly over the axel, yeah its top-heavy, but thats definitly something you want for stability. Unless you know how to stand on a bigger wheel and have spent some time to re-adjust your riding style, this wheel will feel strange, but once you learn it is an amazing wheel. I can tell you that riding fast in tight turns over uneven terrain is a challance with a smaller wheel such as the 16" kingsong or acm because the wheels jump around and are easy to twist during turns. With the 18", the bigger wheel,larger tire,high shell with more weight makes this a totally different experience. It stays put and stable in the forward direction even if it jumps around. Turning requires more force from the user and its not enought to just shift the weight with the feets, the rider has to lean in hard and push the wheel with them using one of the legs. Because more force is nessesary, its more stable and safer to ride.

 

I agree the 18" wheel feels more planted at higher speeds.  That is why I love the 18S.  Even with the taller body of the 18S, Not top heavy,  it doesn't feel as weird as the Msuper.  I got to try both and I don't like the Msuper.  Maybe if you try the KS18S, you might think how bad the Msuper is too...  LOL  If you are able to grip the KS18S with the whole bottom of your leg you will feel even more confident on the trails.  who know...  But for me, that is how I feel and it is my opinion after owning and riding them both.

[EUCGUY]

5 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I agree the 18" wheel feels more planted at higher speeds.  That is why I love the 18S.  Even with the taller body of the 18S, Not top heavy,  it doesn't feel as weird as the Msuper.  I got to try both and I don't like the Msuper.  Maybe if you try the KS18S, you might think how bad the Msuper is too...  LOL  If you are able to grip the KS18S with the whole bottom of your leg you will feel even more confident on the trails.  who know...  But for me, that is how I feel and it is my opinion after owning and riding them both.

i see. i will definitly try it when the local dealer gets them and see if my opinion changes. 

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, EU GUY said:

yeah its top-heavy, but thats definitly something you want for stability.

This is a complete contradiction.

The higher you move weight away from the center, the easier it will be for it to fall over. I don't understand how more weight placed up high increases stability. Agility, yes, because it will tip over faster, but stability?

[EUCGUY]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

This is a complete contradiction.

The higher you move weight away from the center, the easier it will be for it to fall over. I don't understand how more weight placed up high increases stability. Agility, yes, because it will tip over faster, but stability?

dont quote me on this. lol, but i just though that it would make it more stable at speed because its harder to move the weight when its got inertia when its moving. 
Might have more to do with the larger motor and wheel than anything else. probably. Anyway, the wheel is very stable and easy to control and low/high speeds  

[ir_fuel]

You improve stability by moving the weight as close as possible to the center of gravity of the object. 

But anyway, I think your "explanation" is wrong, but your point about how you feel the stability of this device still holds  

[EUCGUY]

15 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

You improve stability by moving the weight as close as possible to the center of gravity of the object. 

But anyway, I think your "explanation" is wrong, but your point about how you feel the stability of this device still holds  

Right. The batteries isn't that far of from the center, but it's got more to do with the centrifugal force than anything else I guess. Might be the tall body and large wheel that makes it so stable and controllable. Or everything combined as a heavy wheel that requires more force to be disturbed