Legal Speed Limit

[exoplanet]

There should be unlock levels though. You have to fall in certain ways and ride a certain distance before higher speeds get unlocked. You can also protect against plantar fasciitis by gradually unlocking range...

[RayRay]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:24 AM, exoplanet said:

make the rules even more precise by using momentum in stead of speed

I think this makes more sense the more momentum is involved. (Er, I mean, I agree this makes sense in general...)  Unfortunately, we don't apply different speed limits to different sizes/classes of vehicles (with the exception of heavy-duty semi-trucks). As a society, we make it easy to drive (in fact we actively promote) needlessly enormous vehicles for everyday commuting. Place more limits on the largest vehicles and you'll see a lot smarter transportation system begin to emerge.

If traffic laws make no distinctions between these two vehicles, why would they bother over a few kilos difference among tiny vehicles (such as EUC's)?

[Keith]

On 30/10/2017 at 2:01 AM, RayRay said:

Place more limits on the largest vehicles and you'll see a lot smarter transportation system begin to emerge.

In Japan, they brought in a law specifying a maximum footprint for (I think it was) vehicles that were parked on the public road, I.e. without a private parking spot. That left the only way to make the car feel roomier was to make it taller and the result was the Daihatsu Move.

I rest my case. Top gear described it as”One cylinder short of an engine, with a handy carrying handle on the roof!”

[Carl Svanfelt]

Hello,
I live in Finland (in northern Europe) and am waiting now for my first wheel. The regulations in Finland to ride a EUC are not very cleare and give freedom of interpretation. The answers independ of who you are asking; the insurance companie, police or other authorities. 
I found a picture from the traffic authorities on what speeds are allowed here in Finland. With an engine power of max 1000 W, the permitted speed of EUC is 15 km / h (9,32 mile/h) on the sidewalk/pavement and is 25 km / h (15,53 mile/h) on the cycle path. EUC need no road insurance at the moment. If you unlock the speed limit on your own EUC, you will not be penalized for this, but your own traffic behavior will certainly affect future legislation.
We will take good care of our own and others' safety in traffic!
Kind regards
Carl

 

[Mono]

4 hours ago, dismason said:

With an engine power of max 1000 W, the permitted speed of EUC is 15 km / h (9,32 mile/h) on the sidewalk/pavement and is 25 km / h (15,53 mile/h) on the cycle path. EUC need no road insurance at the moment.

Nice sweet spot, that's about as good as legislation can get. Only that for self-balancing devices I would prefer a weight limit over a power limit.

[RayRay]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:52 AM, Mono said:

Only that for self-balancing devices I would prefer a weight limit over a power limit.

I'm not sure where you're going with this... (maybe you're just looking for ways around the 1KW power limit?).

Rider weight is 3-5 times more significant than wheel weight during a collision (unless you're a pipsqueak riding a Monster).

[Mono]

34 minutes ago, RayRay said:

I'm not sure where you're going with this... (maybe you're just looking for ways around the 1KW power limit?).

Rider weight is 3-5 times more significant than wheel weight during a collision (unless you're a pipsqueak riding a Monster).

There has been a report in this forum of a broken leg from wheel impact. That was in the days where wheel weight was notably below 20kg. Wheels are much more rigid than riders, the pedals have pretty thin edges and they have much less intend to soften the impact than riders do. Wheels also get loose from time to time.

WIth a speed and weight limit, a power limit brings little to no added value. A power limit is also much more difficult to verify than a weight limit (our maybe you're just looking for legislation that is too difficult to verify on the spot?).

No, I have no personal beef in a power limit, I could hardly care less. But, and most importantly, for riders who weigh more than 90-120kg a 1kW power limit on a self-balancing device is a notable safety concern.

EDIT: Even for all other riders limiting the reserve torque at a speed of 25km/h by limiting the power is an unnecessary self-inflicted safety concern.

[RayRay]

25 minutes ago, Mono said:

There has been a report in this forum of a broken leg from wheel impact. That was in the days where wheel weight was notably below 20kg. Wheels are much more rigid than riders, the pedals have pretty thin edges and they have much less intend to soften the impact than riders do. Wheels also get loose from time to time.

WIth a speed and weight limit, a power limit brings little to no added value. A power limit is also much more difficult to verify than a weight limit (our maybe you're just looking for legislation that is too difficult to verify on the spot?).

No, I have no personal beef in a power limit, I could hardly care less. But for riders who weigh more than 120kg a 1kW power limit on a self-balancing device is a notable safety concern.

I see. It sounds like your concern is for rider safety and having a practical way of verifying compliance standards. (Okay.)

...and (for the record), I don't weight 120kg but there are those considering riding euc's at that weight and the general consensus is that 1KW won't 'cut-it' (but might cut-out).

All I know is, if we're talking peak power (and not nominal), then an IPS Zero is about as much wheel as this law would permit. (If ever enforced.)

 

[Mono]

I don't think we are talking peak power (how short could the peak be?). Yes, my main (pretty much only) reason is safety. Limiting the power and hence the torque introduces unnecessary safety issues in particular at high speed. It will hinder building increasingly fail-safe wheels in future.

[RayRay]

20 minutes ago, Mono said:

I don't think we are talking peak power (how short could the peak be?)

I hope we are not talking peak (it depends on who's interpreting these laws). Laws are a funny business (and hardly ever practical).

Remember moped laws that used to limit unregistered scooters to 50cc and 1hp (700W)? Initially, manufacturer's complied with the 50cc limit, but then everyone modded their engines to produce more power... Then the law changed to 2hp, but engines were already producing much more than that (if not you could always mod the displacement and who would know?).

Nowadays, if you buy a 50cc moped/scooter (or even an electric one) the manufacturers electronically limit your speed for compliance. My point, (not sure I have one), road rules are just a cat and mouse game. People break speed limits all the time, diesel engines cheat on emissions tests, cities crack down on e-bikes to seem tough on immigration... madness!

Laws never seem to match their intents.

[Mono]

True, making (reasonable) laws is much harder than breaking them.