Jump to content

KingSong Notice about buying EUC on Ali express


Milli Zhao

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Berus said:

The gap isn't 960/1700 . You should subtract around 35% of import tax+vat(here in italy -this is not gain of the seller) from 1700 ..so the gup is 960/1260. You should consider/discuss about this gup. Gup = (for a regular company) company costs/tax, insurance, 2 years warranty .etc etc ..

This is a totally wrong bill...

First of all the wheel doesn't cost 960..

960 is the aliexpress Price including Transport/customs and also Profit of the aliseller!

The real Price from factory for re-sellers is just about 650-700.

So even if you add 35 % to this (Germany is only plus 25%(19+6)!!) you land on 945(700+245)....so now add unknown Transport cost and then you have something you can compare to the selling Price of 1700....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply
6 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

This is a totally wrong bill...

First of all the wheel doesn't cost 960..

960 is the aliexpress Price including Transport/customs and also Profit of the aliseller!

The real Price from factory for re-sellers is just about 650-700.

So even if you add 35 % to this (Germany is only plus 25%(19+6)!!) you land on 945(700+245)....so now add unknown Transport cost and then you have something you can compare to the selling Price of 1700....

I have imported euc for one year.

I know what pay an aliexpress seller when shipping with UPS ddp(Delivery duty paid) throught Netherlands. The customs tax is only 10/15$

1260-960 is the difference of potential gain between aliexpress shop and IT shop (transport cost included - we pay custom taxs and vat  on trasport cost too ).Ok Germany have lower tax but did you receive official documentation of Germany customs when receive EUC ..if yes you have paid Germany tax otherwise no.

960 is a promotional al price I think, however there is a difference of 250 / 300 eur .

But if you consider EU  laws about warranty 2 years ( usually estimated +15% of original cost) , company cost, compulsory insurance for liability damages ( at least here in italy importer must have) and last but not least "THE STRESS"  to work with company that can have QC like GW ... you should say that the price is too lowwwww:roflmao:

I always buy on aliexpress so i'm not against Aliexpress .. only try to explain why this difference. I can sell EUC at the same price of Aliexpress ..but without any invoice C2C not B2C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Berus said:

The gap isn't 960/1700 . You should subtract around 35% of import tax+vat(here in italy -this is not gain of the seller) from 1700 ..so the gup is 960/1260. You should consider/discuss about this gup. Gup = (for a regular company) company costs/tax, insurance, 2 years warranty .etc etc ..

Your reply is not very clear to me : 960€ was Aliexpress best price offer. I made this assumption it includes all taxes (import & VAT), was I wrong?. And the 1 700€ is taxes inclusive in local stores.

KS-16S prices.PNG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Geoffroy said:

Sorry I posted too quickly, without reading your responses (@Berus;@Kingsong69)

Lastly does someone have experience feedback with the reseller FEIRER ?

I bought my KS16s directly from him when Alibali made it difficult for me to purchase from their website as they required information about me that, while understandable, I was too lazy to fill out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I bought my KS16s directly from him when Alibali made it difficult for me to purchase from their website as they required information about me that, while understandable, I was too lazy to fill out. 

Good to know. Thank you.

I might do the same because I was unable to successfully refresh my AliExpress password ! Then they locked my account. ... when eventually security rules stop the business ;-) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/25/2017 at 4:37 AM, Marty Backe said:

Whoa, did I miss something. KingSong provides after sales support :confused1: :o

Call me cynical.

Just to relay my experience.

My beloved KS14c suffered famous bent, cracking pedal support making it not ridable after about 1,500 Ks.

Thanks to some great posts here saying to buy local,  I bought from the distributor in the country where I live.

I emailed and called and after a little hassle was told to send it back but only in the original box which I am lucky to have kept!

I referred to the post and photos again posted on this very fine forum to show that I, and others, believed this to be a factory defect that should be covered under warranty.

They quickly not only replaced the motor, wheel but also have new mother board and she rides even better now!

So yes in my case Kingsong and their now european distributor did take very good care of my situation thank you very much!

ukj

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, UKJ said:

Just to relay my experience.

My beloved KS14c suffered famous bent, cracking pedal support making it not ridable after about 1,500 Ks.

Thanks to some great posts here saying to buy local,  I bought from the distributor in the country where I live.

I emailed and called and after a little hassle was told to send it back but only in the original box which I am lucky to have kept!

I referred to the post and photos again posted on this very fine forum to show that I, and others, believed this to be a factory defect that should be covered under warranty.

They quickly not only replaced the motor, wheel but also have new mother board and she rides even better now!

So yes in my case Kingsong and their now european distributor did take very good care of my situation thank you very much!

ukj

Just to be clear, I was referring to direct KingSong support. Your positive experience is with the dealer, which is to be expected. This is why many of us recommend that people purchase their wheels from a quality dealer because it's unlikely that they will get any direct support from the manufacturer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there were proper BnM shops with service technicians here in Sweden where I could buy the current wheels from brands like Kingsong, Inmotion, Gotway, Rockwheel, IPS, Ninebot etcetera I probably would. But our market is too small, so there is one "local" Gotway online shop I know of, and the rest that carry wheels at all, only carry older stuff like Ninebot E, economy models like Inmotion V3C, or second tier wheels like Airwheel X3. Having bought my first wheel in one of those shops, I know for a fact that most of the provide no service - they just pointed at the national agent. The national agent in turn does not have the latest and greatest, only yesteryears stuff.

For me, and many others in smaller market countries, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the Baltic states etcetera, the only realistic alternative is buying online from abroad. So if I buy the GT16 from EU and pay 1700€ or buy the exact same product from AliExpress and pay 1250€ including the local 25% VAT, what exactly do I pay the 450€ extra for?

I will still have to send a faulty wheel back, it may be a bit faster, but not even that is a certainty. It will still be an expensive proposition, even though it may be slightly cheaper. I may get covered by EU laws, but if a seller really wants to slip away, wtf can I do that is actually worth the effort?

If the difference was 10% or even 15% it would be one thing, but a 35% premium is rather steep. 

I developed a good rapport with Yi Chen on Rockwheel Store. We even joke around and discuss life in general. He has been very proactive in helping me and have given med good prices and good terms for sales, shipping and so on. He is one of the sellers that no longer carry Kingsong, since their idea of cutting of the Chinese sellers from International sales.

If I thought for a second this would mean that local shops with reasonable prices and good service would spring up out of the ground, it would be one thing. But as I have no wish of dying of asphyxia, I'm certainly not holding my breath. This is still too much of a specialty item with a very small market.

I think this is a totally moronic move by Kingsong. A bit like the conundrum surrounding Ninebot after they acquired Segway and suddenly stopped delivering to people like Ian on Speedyfeet. They think the "next step" is getting control of the market and supply chain, but I think it will only hurt their own business. A lot of cost sensitive customers that would consider a KS-wheel will now look at other brands. What they could have done, was to require a minimum level of service from anyone carrying their products. Thereby weeding out the sellers that have no interest in providing after sales services to their customers. That would probably have meant the lowest prices went up a notch, but in return it would provide a customer satisfaction boon.

I have looked with some interest at KS, thinking about if their philosophy might have some merit. Wondering if the strange 18" design might actually be something. Right now they're not in my book at all, and inertia is no longer at their side AFAIC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2017-09-25 at 6:29 PM, WARPed1701D said:

No. He'd have Lucius Fox just build him one. As Mr Fox is currently indisposed and unavailable to me I just have to hope for the Z10! That really is a Batwheel.

When the Z10 comes around, I may change my nick to BatCat!

40402-Bat-Cat.jpg.983a5cb41460660ce39ced7729bf37cb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

If there were proper BnM shops with service technicians here in Sweden where I could buy the current wheels from brands like Kingsong, Inmotion, Gotway, Rockwheel, IPS, Ninebot etcetera I probably would. But our market is too small, so there is one "local" Gotway online shop I know of, and the rest that carry wheels at all, only carry older stuff like Ninebot E, economy models like Inmotion V3C, or second tier wheels like Airwheel X3. Having bought my first wheel in one of those shops, I know for a fact that most of the provide no service - they just pointed at the national agent. The national agent in turn does not have the latest and greatest, only yesteryears stuff.

For me, and many others in smaller market countries, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the Baltic states etcetera, the only realistic alternative is buying online from abroad. So if I buy the GT16 from EU and pay 1700€ or buy the exact same product from AliExpress and pay 1250€ including the local 25% VAT, what exactly do I pay the 450€ extra for?

I will still have to send a faulty wheel back, it may be a bit faster, but not even that is a certainty. It will still be an expensive proposition, even though it may be slightly cheaper. I may get covered by EU laws, but if a seller really wants to slip away, wtf can I do that is actually worth the effort?

If the difference was 10% or even 15% it would be one thing, but a 35% premium is rather steep. 

I developed a good rapport with Yi Chen on Rockwheel Store. We even joke around and discuss life in general. He has been very proactive in helping me and have given med good prices and good terms for sales, shipping and so on. He is one of the sellers that no longer carry Kingsong, since their idea of cutting of the Chinese sellers from International sales.

If I thought for a second this would mean that local shops with reasonable prices and good service would spring up out of the ground, it would be one thing. But as I have no wish of dying of asphyxia, I'm certainly not holding my breath. This is still too much of a specialty item with a very small market.

I think this is a totally moronic move by Kingsong. A bit like the conundrum surrounding Ninebot after they acquired Segway and suddenly stopped delivering to people like Ian on Speedyfeet. They think the "next step" is getting control of the market and supply chain, but I think it will only hurt their own business. A lot of cost sensitive customers that would consider a KS-wheel will now look at other brands. What they could have done, was to require a minimum level of service from anyone carrying their products. Thereby weeding out the sellers that have no interest in providing after sales services to their customers. That would probably have meant the lowest prices went up a notch, but in return it would provide a customer satisfaction boon.

I have looked with some interest at KS, thinking about if their philosophy might have some merit. Wondering if the strange 18" design might actually be something. Right now they're not in my book at all, and inertia is no longer at their side AFAIC.

 

When I was looking at buying options in my country (Canada), I contacted one of the only BnM shops about buying a wheel from them and came away from the conversation convinced that I would get more after-sales support buying from China.  I won't go into details because it's not relevant, but I actually came away with the belief the support from the China seller would be better, not equivalent or similar.  My whole problem with King Song and others wanting to keep their products off aliexpress is that there's no clear value buying from a local retailer.  ewheels doesn't have a canadian branch.  

I'm paying close attention to what's happening in the re-seller market because of how clearly companies like King Song and Inmotion/Solowheel want to lock up their distribution channels.  I put in an inquiry to a seller last night simply because I'm concerned that the market for King Songs is going to be exclusive to retail channels in the near future.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

If there were proper BnM shops with service technicians here in Sweden where I could buy the current wheels from brands like Kingsong, Inmotion, Gotway, Rockwheel, IPS, Ninebot etcetera I probably would. But our market is too small, so there is one "local" Gotway online shop I know of, and the rest that carry wheels at all, only carry older stuff like Ninebot E, economy models like Inmotion V3C, or second tier wheels like Airwheel X3. Having bought my first wheel in one of those shops, I know for a fact that most of the provide no service - they just pointed at the national agent. The national agent in turn does not have the latest and greatest, only yesteryears stuff.

For me, and many others in smaller market countries, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the Baltic states etcetera, the only realistic alternative is buying online from abroad. So if I buy the GT16 from EU and pay 1700€ or buy the exact same product from AliExpress and pay 1250€ including the local 25% VAT, what exactly do I pay the 450€ extra for?

I will still have to send a faulty wheel back, it may be a bit faster, but not even that is a certainty. It will still be an expensive proposition, even though it may be slightly cheaper. I may get covered by EU laws, but if a seller really wants to slip away, wtf can I do that is actually worth the effort?

If the difference was 10% or even 15% it would be one thing, but a 35% premium is rather steep. 

I developed a good rapport with Yi Chen on Rockwheel Store. We even joke around and discuss life in general. He has been very proactive in helping me and have given med good prices and good terms for sales, shipping and so on. He is one of the sellers that no longer carry Kingsong, since their idea of cutting of the Chinese sellers from International sales.

If I thought for a second this would mean that local shops with reasonable prices and good service would spring up out of the ground, it would be one thing. But as I have no wish of dying of asphyxia, I'm certainly not holding my breath. This is still too much of a specialty item with a very small market.

I think this is a totally moronic move by Kingsong. A bit like the conundrum surrounding Ninebot after they acquired Segway and suddenly stopped delivering to people like Ian on Speedyfeet. They think the "next step" is getting control of the market and supply chain, but I think it will only hurt their own business. A lot of cost sensitive customers that would consider a KS-wheel will now look at other brands. What they could have done, was to require a minimum level of service from anyone carrying their products. Thereby weeding out the sellers that have no interest in providing after sales services to their customers. That would probably have meant the lowest prices went up a notch, but in return it would provide a customer satisfaction boon.

I have looked with some interest at KS, thinking about if their philosophy might have some merit. Wondering if the strange 18" design might actually be something. Right now they're not in my book at all, and inertia is no longer at their side AFAIC.

That was a great read, and I totally agree. I wish you could enjoy the choices we have over here :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the flaw in the model of companies like King Song and Inmotion/Solowheel is that the local dealer in countries other than the US/UK can sit back and milk the monopoly at the cost of service.  There's absolutely no internal competition within the local market in these countries and therefore service suffers.

It bothers me in the context of the group buy idea for the new 18L.  KingSong69 pointed out how difficult it would be to arrange because of these factors and it really shouldn't be.  The more I think about it the more it bugs me.  It makes me more determined to want to go through a chinese seller.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

If there were proper BnM shops with service technicians here in Sweden where I could buy the current wheels from brands like Kingsong, Inmotion, Gotway, Rockwheel, IPS, Ninebot etcetera I probably would. But our market is too small, so there is one "local" Gotway online shop I know of, and the rest that carry wheels at all, only carry older stuff like Ninebot E, economy models like Inmotion V3C, or second tier wheels like Airwheel X3. Having bought my first wheel in one of those shops, I know for a fact that most of the provide no service - they just pointed at the national agent. The national agent in turn does not have the latest and greatest, only yesteryears stuff.

For me, and many others in smaller market countries, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the Baltic states etcetera, the only realistic alternative is buying online from abroad. So if I buy the GT16 from EU and pay 1700€ or buy the exact same product from AliExpress and pay 1250€ including the local 25% VAT, what exactly do I pay the 450€ extra for?

I will still have to send a faulty wheel back, it may be a bit faster, but not even that is a certainty. It will still be an expensive proposition, even though it may be slightly cheaper. I may get covered by EU laws, but if a seller really wants to slip away, wtf can I do that is actually worth the effort?

If the difference was 10% or even 15% it would be one thing, but a 35% premium is rather steep. 

I developed a good rapport with Yi Chen on Rockwheel Store. We even joke around and discuss life in general. He has been very proactive in helping me and have given med good prices and good terms for sales, shipping and so on. He is one of the sellers that no longer carry Kingsong, since their idea of cutting of the Chinese sellers from International sales.

If I thought for a second this would mean that local shops with reasonable prices and good service would spring up out of the ground, it would be one thing. But as I have no wish of dying of asphyxia, I'm certainly not holding my breath. This is still too much of a specialty item with a very small market.

I think this is a totally moronic move by Kingsong. A bit like the conundrum surrounding Ninebot after they acquired Segway and suddenly stopped delivering to people like Ian on Speedyfeet. They think the "next step" is getting control of the market and supply chain, but I think it will only hurt their own business. A lot of cost sensitive customers that would consider a KS-wheel will now look at other brands. What they could have done, was to require a minimum level of service from anyone carrying their products. Thereby weeding out the sellers that have no interest in providing after sales services to their customers. That would probably have meant the lowest prices went up a notch, but in return it would provide a customer satisfaction boon.

I have looked with some interest at KS, thinking about if their philosophy might have some merit. Wondering if the strange 18" design might actually be something. Right now they're not in my book at all, and inertia is no longer at their side AFAIC.

Couldn‘t agree more!!!

All my 3 wheels from Rockwheel Store were top notch...the service and conversation also. I am waiting for my 4th now :-)

 

But just to to make it totally clear: Gotway is -depending the prices and so on- not one piece better than KS...they also have this exclusive seller system installed......On all what i have written you can change the Name KS into GW without problems....I paid for my GW Tesla on ali about 1300 dollar to my door, on gotway France  i would have to pay 2300 dollar....

Thats not far from buying 2 wheels instead of one in europe,  another example needed?

A GW V3s+ 1600wh is 2800Dollar in France :blink1: Please ...what?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I feel like the flaw in the model of companies like King Song and Inmotion/Solowheel is that the local dealer in countries other than the US/UK can sit back and milk the monopoly at the cost of service.  There's absolutely no internal competition within the local market in these countries and therefore service suffers.

It bothers me in the context of the group buy idea for the new 18L.  KingSong69 pointed out how difficult it would be to arrange because of these factors and it really shouldn't be.  The more I think about it the more it bugs me.  It makes me more determined to want to go through a chinese seller.     

Sadly I think we will see more moves like this, as I think the mfg's totally misunderstands the market.

They want to become "western" in the eyes of westerners. Gain respectability and a higher profile customer base. The risk of getting your wheels stopped in customs goes down, the risk of getting legislated out of business goes down and so on. Look at the Ninebot/Segway construct, or the Inmotion/Solowheel merge, that's probably what it's about.

But they're missing a couple of very important points:

This is a niche product. If you want to get main-stream, you need to have a wider set of product for the masses. These one-wheels probably need to exist in parallell to electric bikes and electric scooters, where they provide the coolness factor of the show-room, while the other products probably sell as much or more.

Very many markets aren't even close enough to merit their own sales-organisation. Trying means you got to hike up the prices above what the product is actually worth given what you actually get, which in turn means less products sold. And even then it will be hard for the small shop to survive, especially with the generally lousy terms of replacement parts and so on, where the end-point will have to take all the risks.

So basically there are a million and one things to take care of before you try to impose your will on the sales-chain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/10/2017 at 10:39 PM, Geoffroy said:

Your reply is not very clear to me : 960€ was Aliexpress best price offer. I made this assumption it includes all taxes (import & VAT), was I wrong?. And the 1 700€ is taxes inclusive in local stores.

 

Yes for end consumer is 'tax inclusive' . .....if shipping through Holland ...and we do not want to tell fairy tales..this only a trick evade taxes (VAT & import) .. a good trick for get a good price for the consumer... but a company can't use it and the selling with invoice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So reading your posts and responses, I made the jump and I stroke the FEIER offer at 950€ through AliExpress for a KS KS-16S ...now wait and see.

I have no idea yet how it feels to ride a wheel.

My bet is, Paris might not be the worst place to start anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Geoffroy said:

So reading your posts and responses, I made the jump and I stroke the FEIER offer at 950€ through AliExpress for a KS KS-16S ...now wait and see.

I have no idea yet how it feels to ride a wheel.

My bet is, Paris might not be the worst place to start anyway.

You made a wise choice.  If I was doing it all over again, I probably would have gone for the 16S.  It's the best overall wheel right now for the money. 

I was wondering earlier whether it's actually King Song that is spearheading this move towards blacklisting Aliexpress, or if they're being carried along by Inmotion/Solowheel's move in that direction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As i today learned from the France Forum...the best known Aliexpress sellers for GOTWAY wheels also received big pressures NOT to sell anymore to countrys with exclusive/big Gotway sellers.....there is a big discussion in the French Forum about this....as France is one of the most expensives places to buy a GW (or KS.)

That "pressure" from Gotway France on the Green Travelling shop even lead to cancelation of all ordered Tesla in France and to cancellation of Green travellings "Tesla Pre-Order Offer" which first should run to 30.October.

 

So in my view it is time to think about:

There will still be Options to purchase a KS or GW over aliexpress....do yourself a favor and talk about the sellers who are still willing to do that only in Personal Messages and do not give links to the Shops in normal threads. You might help future buyers, who are not able to pay nearly double the Price...

 

And just to say it(again): This is nothing against reasonable fair prieces like for example ewheels.com is offering them...this just goes against totally overrated Prices, which for the most time only happen in europe.

 

My 2 Cents!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read that, too. The French prices are even extra-crazier in their disproportionateness.

Maybe the Rockwheel Store will be happy about this, because now the Rockwheel GT16 is the only reasonably priced wheel:efeebb3acc:

1170$ (<1000€) for the 860 Wh vs 1700€ for 840 Wh 16S...

Oh well, looks like the manufacturer-who-could-conquer-the-world-but-fucks-up curse has reached KS (GW next with Ali bans?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

As i today learned from the France Forum...the best known Aliexpress sellers for GOTWAY wheels also received big pressures NOT to sell anymore to countrys with exclusive/big Gotway sellers.....there is a big discussion in the French Forum about this....as France is one of the most expensives places to buy a GW (or KS.)

That "pressure" from Gotway France on the Green Travelling shop even lead to cancelation of all ordered Tesla in France and to cancellation of Green travellings "Tesla Pre-Order Offer" which first should run to 30.October.

 

So in my view it is time to think about:

There will still be Options to purchase a KS or GW over aliexpress....do yourself a favor and talk about the sellers who are still willing to do that only in Personal Messages and do not give links to the Shops in normal threads. You might help future buyers, who are not able to pay nearly double the Price...

 

And just to say it(again): This is nothing against reasonable fair prieces like for example ewheels.com is offering them...this just goes against totally overrated Prices, which for the most time only happen in europe.

 

My 2 Cents!

Yes, i agree with you.

In ewheels the KS18s 1680wh costs 1990USD... If i have in Portugal a seller with this price, that give me 2years warranty and support i buy from him.

Its fair price, i think...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Read that, too. The French prices are even extra-crazier in their disproportionateness.

Maybe the Rockwheel Store will be happy about this, because now the Rockwheel GT16 is the only reasonably priced wheel:efeebb3acc:

1170$ (<1000€) for the 860 Wh vs 1700€ for 840 Wh 16S...

Oh well, looks like the manufacturer-who-could-conquer-the-world-but-fucks-up curse has reached KS (GW next with Ali bans?).

I doubt Yi Chen will do any happy somersaults about it. His offerings used to be RW, KS, GW, IPS and Inmotion. While the name is Rockwheel store, since they have a close relationship, he sold what people wanted. Now he can't carry the KS anymore for international sales, and Inmotion are down to the V8 - while he can still get it for a reasonable price. I know he hopes to be able to carry the NB1Z's, but that of course depends on the NB/Segway policies...

It seems market-department stupidity is contagious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

I doubt Yi Chen will do any happy somersaults about it. His offerings used to be RW, KS, GW, IPS and Inmotion. While the name is Rockwheel store, since they have a close relationship, he sold what people wanted. Now he can't carry the KS anymore for international sales, and Inmotion are down to the V8 - while he can still get it for a reasonable price. I know he hopes to be able to carry the NB1Z's, but that of course depends on the NB/Segway policies...

It seems market-department stupidity is contagious.

The main solution to everybody who wants to get a wheel for a fair price(europe!!):

Definitly dont go and Shout out everywhere what Save you have done...

...go into quiet communications, receive a lovely wheel and think twice about what you are telling about it, where everyone can read/see it!

Seams getting a wheel from ali becomes quite a conspiracie thing! Ridiculous:-(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...