What is your experience with the KS16S until now ?

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That's my worry too, in a year or so if I would want to buy a wheel with bigger range, the ooooooold 2400 Monster or a 1600Wh ACM upgrade (aka crappy Gotway electronics in both cases) are the only off-the-shelf possibilities

@eddiemoy No offense, but you need to get off your self-fulfilling "They don't produce it so it must mean it makes no economic sense" blind market belief We're talking about Chinese manufacturers, you know how they are - a bit slow on the feedback implementation Might as well argue people don't like wheels with redundancy, really good electronics,  cushioned pedals, better lights, or whatever else because these aren't sold.

We've literally been told in this thread (holy offtopic btw) that KS would not even have built the 14S (840 Wh) without their customers asking for it - and if I'm going to bet on the 14D vs 14S sales numbers (even ignoring how the 14D price point may be attractive to and specifically attract a lot of new riders), I knew which one I'd believe is bigger (or even just significantly nonzero enough to matter).

You may be right though, building a custom battery may be the only way left if it goes on like this...

I'm sure if enough customers want it they will build it.  I'm just trying to explain why they don't.  Not enough demand is what I'm reading.  The hand full of people on this forum does not equal demand.  If there is a 1000 people who want that and are willing to pay $4k for a wheel, I'm sure they will make one.  It is after all a business and the making a money is one of their objectives.  If they can't make money on a wheel, why do you think they would make it?  Out of the kindness of their heart?  You are just not being realistic.  

[Stan Onymous]

I am not convinced that thinking small for such a unique device is really what makes people buy more than one. Was your first wheel your smallest or largest capacity? Btw, my V8 weighs 29.8 lbs and goes 25 miles. Thats only 12 miles one way and then back. That takes only 1 hr 20 mins.  Is it asking for too much to go 40 miles? It was in 2015 with an IPS or Ninebot at 10 miles, but even Ninebot has wised up. That nifty fad market is a product killer when there are others easier to ride that fit the category. 

You advocate competing with the fad market. Fine, but that is clearly not where the tragectory of the models are going. Batteries continue to get cheaper and smaller. There is a big difference between an order of 100,000 batteries to fit cars and 1000 batteries to fit a EUC. The suppliers require a longer term contract to ramp up production on this scale. Smaller sellers are more nimble by using the latest winners in the competition market of producers and developers. So your Apple and Tesla car analogies are flawed.

[meepmeepmayer]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I'm sure if enough customers want it they will build it.

I don't believe it

I guess it's a mixture of sometimes breathtaking cluelessness and lack of knowledge (*cough* Gotway hardware shenanigans), lack of professionalism (though KS did great improvements here), lack of financials (probably the biggest innovation/improvement constraint right now), and since they are all Asian/Chinese, they'll probably look more at their natural home market and have that as a default mindset, and it seems people there don't want bigger batteries as much (makes sense if they all weigh half of a Western fatty and good temperatures give them maximum range in addition).

But I would certainly not interpret it as "no competent manufacturer sees the need for bigger batteries". The current manufacturers do, but I don't think that means much.

I've asked Diana from KS about bigger batteries for the 16S (I believe, or maybe 18S?, or just future wheels in general) in some thread here, and she basically didn't understand why anyone would want this.

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, Stan Onymous said:

I am not convinced that thinking small for such a unique device is really what makes people buy more than one. Was your first wheel your smallest or largest capacity? Btw, my V8 weighs 29.8 lbs and goes 25 miles. Thats only 12 miles one way and then back. That takes only 1 hr 20 mins.  Is it asking for too much to go 40 miles? It was in 2015 with an IPS or Ninebot at 10 miles, but even Ninebot has wised up. That nifty fad market is a product killer when there others easier to ride that fit the category. 

You advocate competing with the fad market. Fine, but that is clearly not where the tragectory of the models are going. Batteries continue to get cheaper and smaller. There is a big difference between an order of 100,000 batteries to fit cars and 1000 batteries to fit a EUC. The suppliers require a longer term contract to ramp up production on this scale. Smaller sellers are more nimble by using the latest winners in the competition market of producers and developers. So your Apple and Tesla car analogies are flawed.

Batteries improve very little year over year.  My first and second wheel was bought just to learn, not capacity.  My third wheel and 4th wheel was purchased with 840wh batteries which suites my needs.  Tesla is the largest user of Lithium ion batteries in the world.  They just build a Gigabattery factory that produces more than all the battery factories in the world combined.  I would think they know a thing or two about batteries.  The EUC's use the same 18650's that the Tesla's use.  If it was economical for Tesla to make the 500mile battery, they would have.  Again, it isn't easy, battery technology do not advance like chip technology.  There is no doubling ever 3 years.  

You buy what you need, I'm not telling you to buy a smaller wheel, I'm just explaining to you why you don't see more wheels that have 2000wh batteries.  Simple, no demand.  

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't believe it

I guess it's a mixture of sometimes breathtaking cluelessness and lack of knowledge (*cough* Gotway hardware shenanigans), lack of professionalism (though KS did great improvements here), lack of financials (probably the biggest innovation/improvement constraint right now), and since they are all Asian/Chinese, they'll probably look more at their natural home market and have that as a default mindset, and it seems people there don't want bigger batteries as much (makes sense if they all weigh half of a Western fatty and good temperatures give them maximum range in addition).

But I would certainly not interpret it as "no competent manufacturer sees the need for bigger batteries". The current manufacturers do, but I don't think that means much.

I've asked Diana from KS about bigger batteries for the 16S (I believe, or maybe 18S?, or just future wheels in general) in some thread here, and she basically didn't understand why anyone would want this.

LOL, Diana is telling you there is no demand!  You and a few others on this board who ask for it doesn't equal to demand. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Maybe you're right. Maybe we also need to differentiate between "no demand to make it worthwhile" and "more demand somewhere else where it's easier and we don't have many resources anyways". I'd love to know some overall wheel numbers, how big the beginner-wheels-must-be-cheap effect is, Monster sales numbers, etc.

That Diana example was the Asian  mindset, I'd say. No demand in China that they know of.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

LOL, Diana is telling you there is no demand!  You and a few others on this board who ask for it doesn't equal to demand. 

But wait a second. KingSong produces the high capacity 18 inch wheel. There must be a demand. And Gotway was rather revolutionary when they came out with 1600wh versions of the ACM and MSuper. They must have understand the demand.

[LanghamP]

Concerning the pricing of various wheels, what the sellers really want to do is peek inside your wallet to ascertain how much you can afford while administrating you a truth serum on how much you reeaalllyyy want it, then price the wheel accordingly. That's why discussions about the cost of wheels is rather useless when specific dollars are used.

Somebody here posted some chart with speed versus energy use, and wind resistance I think accounted for something like 80% energy usage once above 22 mph. That right there might account for the demand of large batteries for bigger wheels.

As an urban dweller, having a large battery in a heavy wheel hurts me because the wheel becomes less handy. Try getting the MSuper up 2 flights of steps after humping it over another flight of steps just to get to the front door, and suddenly a device which is suppose to save energy instead becomes this demented work-out equipment.

While battery technology doesn't seem to be advancing quickly at all the cost of batteries is continuing to drop massively. Since only a 1/4 of the weight of a wheel is devoted to batteries, to me it makes sense to simply offer unreasonably large battery capacity if the cost is only marginally increased. And indeed we're starting to see that whereby lots of wheels comes with 840 wh or more for not very much.

In my opinion, 840 wh is great, perfect for me. 3-4 hours of commuting time, or 2-3 hours of enthusiast time.

[eddiemoy]

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

But wait a second. KingSong produces the high capacity 18 inch wheel. There must be a demand. And Gotway was rather revolutionary when they came out with 1600wh versions of the ACM and MSuper. They must have understand the demand.

Lol, I bought the 840wh KS18.  I also bought the lower end 1300wh Msuper which I'm going to get rid of once the KS18L comes out.  I wonder how many people actually buy the 1680wh KS18S or how many people actually buy Gotways.  Again, I think not many people want to spend too much money on a wheel.  It looks like only a few on this forum has a few wheels and have spent multiple $K on wheels.  This is not the norm.  

[Stan Onymous]

Right now, Tesla is the standard for a lithium ion technology that has been around since 1991. But the Telegraph reports this breakthrough from a smaller company, and it is these companies that will bring the next breakthrough in tech. 

Scientists at the University of Cambridge claimed a huge breakthrough last year in the development of a “lithium-air” battery that they claim could have 10 times the capacity of today’s lithium-ion technology. By using electrons partially from oxygen in the air, rather than those stored at one end of the battery, it promises enormous advances in capacity – enough to drive an electric car from London to Edinburgh on a single charge. 

Thats 414 miles.

So yeah, technology at this point has stalled, but when it changes, who do you think will be better placed to capitalize? The smaller more agile sellers and distributors. Tesla needs to have control over supply, but that comes at overhead costs in R&D, but it keeps prices semi predictable and that is its real benefit. Also the ability to sue anybody for patent infringement on tech breakthroughs, whether true or not, is another good reason.

[eddiemoy]

8 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Concerning the pricing of various wheels, what the sellers really want to do is peek inside your wallet to ascertain how much you can afford while administrating you a truth serum on how much you reeaalllyyy want it, then price the wheel accordingly. That's why discussions about the cost of wheels is rather useless when specific dollars are used.

Somebody here posted some chart with speed versus energy use, and wind resistance I think accounted for something like 80% energy usage once above 22 mph. That right there might account for the demand of large batteries for bigger wheels.

As an urban dweller, having a large battery in a heavy wheel hurts me because the wheel becomes less handy. Try getting the MSuper up 2 flights of steps after humping it over another flight of steps just to get to the front door, and suddenly a device which is suppose to save energy instead becomes this demented work-out equipment.

While battery technology doesn't seem to be advancing quickly at all the cost of batteries is continuing to drop massively. Since only a 1/4 of the weight of a wheel is devoted to batteries, to me it makes sense to simply offer unreasonably large battery capacity if the cost is only marginally increased. And indeed we're starting to see that whereby lots of wheels comes with 840 wh or more for not very much.

In my opinion, 840 wh is great, perfect for me. 3-4 hours of commuting time, or 2-3 hours of enthusiast time.

I feel the 840wh battery is good for my needs as well.  There is a huge difference in cost when it comes to the higher capacity cells.  To get an extra 30% capacity on the cell level is not a 30% increase in price.  

[eddiemoy]

4 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Right now, Tesla is the standard for a lithium ion technology that has been around since 1991. But the Telegraph reports this breakthrough from a smaller company, and it is these companies that will bring the next breakthrough in tech. 

Scientists at the University of Cambridge claimed a huge breakthrough last year in the development of a “lithium-air” battery that they claim could have 10 times the capacity of today’s lithium-ion technology. By using electrons partially from oxygen in the air, rather than those stored at one end of the battery, it promises enormous advances in capacity – enough to drive an electric car from London to Edinburgh on a single charge. 

Thats 414 miles.

So yeah, technology at this point has stalled, but when it changes, who do you think will be better placed to capitalize? The smaller more agile sellers and distributors. Tesla needs to have control over supply, but that comes at overhead costs in R&D, but it keeps prices semi predictable and that is its real benefit. Also the ability to sue anybody for patent infringement on tech breakthroughs, whether true or not, is another good reason.

These articles come out every month about some break through technology.  What does Elon say to these folks?  Send a working prototype to Tesla.  None has.  They are all vapor ware.  Enough said.  

[Stan Onymous]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

These articles come out every month about some break through technology.  What does Elon say to these folks?  Send a working prototype to Tesla.  None has.  They are all vapor ware.  Enough said.  

Elon Musk is a bit of a Barnum character who takes risks. Giving your technology to a competitor/bidder is just not the way business is done and Elon knows this. Elon will have to bid on these breakthroughs just like everyone else, as long as his stock doesnt tank. He has yet to make any money on production other than stock investments, so we will see. He has a long way to go, but he is a welcome driver of the technology. Not the be all to end all though.

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Lol, I bought the 840wh KS18.  I also bought the lower end 1300wh Msuper which I'm going to get rid of once the KS18L comes out.  I wonder how many people actually buy the 1680wh KS18S or how many people actually buy Gotways.  Again, I think not many people want to spend too much money on a wheel.  It looks like only a few on this forum has a few wheels and have spent multiple $K on wheels.  This is not the norm.  

Lol, I bought the 1600wh MSuper and 2400wh Monster. I wonder how many people actually buy the 680wh MSuper and 1600wh Monster.

Maybe you see the fallacy of your argument 

It's a big tent. I really don't see why you're so down on big capacity wheels. I'm a fan of all the mainstream wheels and don't see the need to go negative on the models that I don't own or ride.

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Lol, I bought the 1600wh MSuper and 2400wh Monster. I wonder mow many people actually buy the 680wh MSuper and 1600wh Monster.

Maybe you see the fallacy of your argument 

It's a big tent. I really don't see why you're so down on big capacity wheels. I'm a fan of all the mainstream wheels and don't see the need to go negative on the models that I don't own or ride.

Who says I'm down on high capacity wheels?  If you read any of my comments I'm merely offering my explanation why there isn't more of them.  Someone wanted more capacity in the 18L and I offered an explanation of why it isn't possible.  One is capacity of the cells and the other being economics. Again, if there is a demand, I'm sure they would make one with higher capacity to what ever the battery limit is without compromising the form factor.  I think if they go the way of Gotway and bloat and make their wheels fatter, they will lose customers.  

[US69]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

But wait a second. KingSong produces the high capacity 18 inch wheel. There must be a demand. And Gotway was rather revolutionary when they came out with 1600wh versions of the ACM and MSuper. They must have understand the demand.

First i think the 1600wh where produced to serve the 84volt systems....as this needed a lot of parallel systems!

31 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Lol, I bought the 840wh KS18.  I also bought the lower end 1300wh Msuper which I'm going to get rid of once the KS18L comes out.  I wonder how many people actually buy the 1680wh KS18S or how many people actually buy Gotways.  Again, I think not many people want to spend too much money on a wheel.  It looks like only a few on this forum has a few wheels and have spent multiple $K on wheels.  This is not the norm.  

i actually ONLY know people who bought the 1360 or 1680wh version....including me!

Getting double the range is only about 200-250bucks more, if you order it directly! getting later another 840wh pack, costs more than double the money! Then: If you are a very good informed EUC driver....you know that the capacity not only goes for the range!!

Driving 50kmh on a 4parallel system(680/840wh) or on a 8parallel system (1360/1680wh) makes a huge difference safety wise!! I personnaly would never go over 30kmh with just a 680/840wh wheel....MY OPINION...

Then:

KS may be fooled by some sale numbers as there are some resellers, that only order the 680/840wh versions of Ks18...and insert their own batterie ,packs! One of the biggest european sellers-1radwerkstatt- is a good example!

 

Then i think you can not compare this buyong decision to a "newbie" buyer...that are the kind of people that just get into driving an EUC!

Sure, in the beginning they wont go for an 1680/1600wh GW\Ks.....that was my own experience! As soon as i got that this "toys" are no toys and the future..i upgraded my Ks14 from 340 to 680wh.

And afterwards never bought the small batterie version of a model again....

[Mono]

4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

It is a limit of the design and how much battery they can stuff in the unit.  I don't think EUC will ever become mainstream.  It is just too high a barrier to cross in terms of learning curve and price.

The learning barrier is not bigger than with bicycles, for children probably smaller. And in a few years from now I don't see that EUCs will remain to be more expensive than bicycles.

Well, in fact, the average price I spent on my bicycles is higher (even considerably higher) than the average price I spent on my EUCs. I wasn't aware of that before you made me think of it.

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, Mono said:

The learning barrier is not bigger than with bicycles, for children probably smaller. And in a few years from now I don't see that EUCs will remain to be more expensive than bicycles.

Well, in fact, the average price I spent on my bicycles is higher (even considerably higher) than the average price I spent on my EUCs. I wasn't aware of that before you made me think of it.

I don't think it will ever become mainstream.  Most people will never get past the learning part.  Hoverboards take seconds to learn and that is why they took off, then the fires happened.  Even the segway mini pro's that take only seconds to learn didn't take off to mainstream.  With all the injuries reported on this board, the reports of injuries will keep this from going mainstream.  It is a fun device for enthusiast, nothing more.  

Here is an example, when I have pool parties, all my friends and their kids pick up on the segway mini pro and learn it in seconds and master it in a few minutes.  Not a single one wanted to buy one and they are only $699 now, not eh $999 when it initially came out.  

Again the same crowd of friends very few were even interested in trying the EUC, only a few out of hundred people that has seen me riding it at my parties.  None of them wanted to buy one.  None of my kids want to even try it.  While they were willing to try and ride the segway mini pro. 

Also regulation prevent it from ever taking off.  I remember when segway came out, I thought it would take over the world.  Then it got heavily regulated, became illegal to ride in most cities.  And along with that restriction they restricted all other motorized personal transport devices.  

That is why it will never become mainstream.

[eddiemoy]

16 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

First i think the 1600wh where produced to serve the 84volt systems....as this needed a lot of parallel systems!

i actually ONLY know people who bought the 1360 or 1680wh version....including me!

Getting double the range is only about 200-250bucks more, if you order it directly! getting later another 840wh pack, costs more than double the money! Then: If you are a very good informed EUC driver....you know that the capacity not only goes for the range!!

Driving 50kmh on a 4parallel system(680/840wh) or on a 8parallel system (1360/1680wh) makes a huge difference safety wise!! I personnaly would never go over 30kmh with just a 680/840wh wheel....MY OPINION...

Then:

KS may be fooled by some sale numbers as there are some resellers, that only order the 680/840wh versions of Ks18...and insert their own batterie ,packs! One of the biggest european sellers-1radwerkstatt- is a good example!

 

Then i think you can not compare this buyong decision to a "newbie" buyer...that are the kind of people that just get into driving an EUC!

Sure, in the beginning they wont go for an 1680/1600wh GW\Ks.....that was my own experience! As soon as i got that this "toys" are no toys and the future..i upgraded my Ks14 from 340 to 680wh.

And afterwards never bought the small batterie version of a model again....

I'm interested in how many they actually sell.  I think the only one that can shed any light on this is the larger resellers.  I tend to think that there are not a lot of people who own the larger capacity EUC's just because of the price.  

The difference in price here in the states between the KS18S 840Wh vs 1680Wh is $500.  So if not needed, would rather not spend the extra $500 for something I know I wouldn't use.  But that is because I knew from the KS16 that I didn't need the 1680wh battery. 

[steve454]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

The difference in price here in the states between the KS18S 840Wh vs 1680Wh is $500.  So if not needed, would rather not spend the extra $500 for something I know I wouldn't use.  But that is because I knew from the KS16 that I didn't need the 1680wh battery. 

 

[Mono]

14 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

I don't think it will ever become mainstream.  Most people will never get past the learning part.

100 years ago you would have said the very same thing about bicycles.

14 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Again the same crowd of friends very few were even interested in trying the EUC, only a few out of hundred people that has seen me riding it at my parties.  None of them wanted to buy one.  None of my kids want to even try it.

I have had tons of kids trying my wheel, for sure not because I forced them, but because they wanted to.

14 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Also regulation prevent it from ever taking off.  I remember when segway came out, I thought it would take over the world.

I never considered Segways as a relevant transport revolution, but I also didn't give it a deep thought.

I agree that EUCs will never become mainstream for people born before the year 1990 or even 2000.

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

100 years ago you would have said the very same thing about bicycles.

I have had tons of kids trying my wheel, for sure not because I forced them, but because they wanted to.

I never considered Segways as a relevant transport revolution, but I also didn't give it a deep thought.

I agree that EUCs will never become mainstream for people born before the year 1990 or even 2000.

LOL, 100 year from now I doubt this will be mainstream.  We should have stuff that actually hovers or fly by then.  

Again, I love the use of the word "tons" to mean a lot more than it really means.  And of the "tons" of kids who wanted to try and did try it, how did they feel after they failed?

We are not living in the 1900's anymore, when something takes off in popularity it is quick.  It doesn't take 100 years.  Just look at how popular the hoverboards were.  Now compare that to the EUC's in the same amount of time.  EUC's are a utter failure in comparison.  Many on this board are unwilling to face the facts.  Many tend to think any year now, they will catch on...  

I wonder why unicycles never became mainstream.  Hmm...  Why are their so little uni-cyclist vs bicyclists?  Don't use the bicycle analogy.  

[Stan Onymous]

42 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I wonder why unicycles never became mainstream.  Hmm...  Why are their so little uni-cyclist vs bicyclists?  Don't use the bicycle analogy.  

Because riding a unicycle is difficult. Riding a EUC is just standing, which is something we all do. It is very easy to pick up, like a bike. In fact it took my neice longer to learn to ride her bike without training wheels than it took me to learn my EUC. You have got to be kidding about - why didnt a one speed peddle seat that has no coast ability take off? It seems very obvious why.

EUCs are just getting to the range, speed and reliability that makes them an actually useful transportation device. Before this year, you had rely on these clunky Gotways to go fast and they came with all sorts of risks. These risks are being ameliorated by competition in this market from Kingsong and Inmotion and others. This competition for stability and speed naturally give one more range due to the higher volts and higher capacity batteries. It is an obvious trajectory that will continue because it is interlinked with other systems benefits.

The next step is for support from the local bike shops as they get more used to ebikes. Some are already geared up for service, they just need the experience. So live in a small defeatist vision of the EUCs if you feel secure about it, but those days are past. Just five years ago I thought urban bike riding was a super dangerous fad. Ha! Things change, keep up!

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Because riding a unicycle is difficult. Riding a EUC is just standing, which is something we all do. It is very easy to pick up, like a bike. In fact it took my neice longer to learn to ride her bike without training wheels than it took me to learn my EUC. You have got to be kidding about - why didnt a one speed peddle seat that has no coast ability take off? It seems very obvious why.

EUCs are just getting to the range, speed and reliability that makes them an actually useful transportation device. Before this year, you had rely on these clunky Gotways to go fast and they came with all sorts of risks. These risks are being ameliorated by competition in this market from Kingsong and Inmotion and others. This competition for stability and speed naturally give one more range due to the higher volts and higher capacity batteries. It is an obvious trajectory that will continue because it is interlinked with other systems benefits.

The next step is for support from the local bike shops as they get more used to ebikes. Some are already geared up for service, they just need the experience. So live in a small defeatist vision of the EUCs if you feel secure about it, but those days are past. Just five years ago I thought urban bike riding was a super dangerous fad. Ha! Things change, keep up!

My kids learned to bike in under an hour.  Training wheels are the wrong way to learn.  They refuse to touch the EUC.  I'm sorry, but until this year Gotway was the only way to go???  

Learning to ride a EUC was difficult.  I don't think you remember how difficult it was.  Seemingly impossible was the feeling.  

Hasnt taken off by now for a reason and it isn't the reason you listed about speed, range and reliability.  

[Mono]

16 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

LOL, 100 year from now I doubt this will be mainstream.  We should have stuff that actually hovers or fly by then.

We will most likely not. There seems to be no path to make flying even remotely as energy and space efficient and noiseless as necessary.

Quote

Again, I love the use of the word "tons" to mean a lot more than it really means.  And of the "tons" of kids who wanted to try and did try it, how did they feel after they failed?

They learn much quicker than adults and many of them seemed to feel quite well. My impression was clearly that for children EUCing is easier to learn than cycling. 

Quote

We are not living in the 1900's anymore, when something takes off in popularity it is quick.  It doesn't take 100 years.

I didn't suggest that it takes 100 years. It takes a generation, because EUCs will only become mainstream popular in populations where children learn to ride them, like with cycling, hence the analogy.

Quote

Just look at how popular the hoverboards were.  Now compare that to the EUC's in the same amount of time.  EUC's are a utter failure in comparison.  Many on this board are unwilling to face the facts.  Many tend to think any year now, they will catch on...  

I wonder why unicycles never became mainstream.  Hmm...  Why are their so little uni-cyclist vs bicyclists?

Because most adults learned as children to ride a bicycle and almost none of them learned to ride a unicycle (probably for several reasons). For non-electric unicycles there is second reason: they are in comparison not very practical means of transportation anyways.