WheelLog Android App

[Mark Lee]

17 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I guess we can agree to disagree regarding the inaccurate battery levels from Gotway. What I do know is that Gotway wheels will start beeping at 15-percent battery under load. With this most recent version, WheelLog will say I"m at ~15-percent (no beeping from the wheel), yet the Gotway app will tell me that the battery level is at 25%. Based on my extensive range testing and experience with these wheels, the Gotway numbers are accurate in the real-world.

I've been riding Gotway wheels for 2-years, and I feel very dialed into how accurate their reported battery levels are. WheelLog just doesn't cut it anymore, for me. If WheelLog is telling me that my battery is at 10-percent, I better damn well be hearing the low battery under load alarm out of the wheel. I'm not.

Hey, that's OK. I have the older version of WheelLog that gives me good battery levels and allows me to control the wheel, and I have the recent version that I can use with the Z10. I'll just switch the version that I'm using based on my wheel.

Thanks again for the Z10 version!

Marty how do you switch from one version to other?  When I installed 2.0.15 I ended up with just one app.  Do you reinstall every time you switch?

Edited September 4, 2018 by Mark Lee

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Mark Lee said:

Marty how do you switch from one version to other?  When I installed 2.0.15 I ended up with just one app.  Do you reinstall every time you switch?

It was just a couple of days ago that I finally realized how crappy the latest version of WheelLog is for Gotway wheels. 

For now, I'm using the Android app "App Backup & Restore", by Trustlab. It allows you to Archive apps, including different versions of the same app.

So I currently have three versions of WheelLog on my phone.

• v2.0.4 Early version that I'm not using
• v2.0.9 This was the last version that reports accurate (consistent with the Gotway app) battery levels and allows you to control/configure the wheel
• v2.0.15 Works with the Z10 but sucks for Gotway wheels

You install the app on your phone and then Archive it (which does not uninstall the app). Then you uninstall the app and install the next version. Archive. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

In use, when I'm going for a long Z10 ride I will uninstall 2.0.9 and then restore from the archive 2.0.15. The whole process takes 30-seconds.

The disadvantage to this approach is you lose all of you settings - the alarms. It works for me though.

It's unfortunate that WheelLog has turned into a mess (IMHO), regardless of the good intentions.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Chriull]

9 hours ago, Hansolo said:

Check the voltage Under WheelLog, The voltage measured by the motherboard is not very accurate.

In my MS3, i have a difference of 2 V between the motherboard and a voltmeter.

WheelLog calculates the% from the voltage, but if the measurement is wrong...

2V is quite some deviation in charge percent. And i strongly assume that this deviation is just with some boards/charges  and others ore more/less accurate....This should justify a calibration function in apps like wheellog (if this deviation is somehow constant over time and somehow linear/proportional (voltage divider))

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Chriull said:

2V is quite some deviation in charge percent. And i strongly assume that this deviation is just with some boards/charges  and others ore more/less accurate....This should justify a calibration function in apps like wheellog (if this deviation is somehow constant over time and somehow linear/proportional (voltage divider))

From my real-world 2-year experience with WheelLog and all my various Gotway wheels, version 2.0.9 and earlier was very accurate and consistent with the Gotway app.

When the app said I had 15% battery, the wheel would start beeping like it should (Gotway wheels will start low-power beeping at 15% battery).

With these newer versions of WheelLog, supposedly more accurate from some theoretical, non-real-world perspective, I'll have 15% reported battery level, but no beeping. Of course when I go into the supposedly inaccurate Gotway app, I'll have 25% battery. Sorry folks, I'm sticking with 2.0.9.

[Struck]

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It was just a couple of days ago that I finally realized how crappy the latest version of WheelLog is for Gotway wheels. 

For now, I'm using the Android app "App Backup & Restore", by Trustlab. It allows you to Archive apps, including different versions of the same app.

So I currently have three versions of WheelLog on my phone.

• v2.0.4 Early version that I'm not using
• v2.0.9 This was the last version that reports accurate (consistent with the Gotway app) battery levels and allows you to control/configure the wheel
• v2.0.15 Works with the Z10 but sucks for Gotway wheels

You install the app on your phone and then Archive it (which does not uninstall the app). Then you uninstall the app and install the next version. Archive. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

In use, when I'm going for a long Z10 ride I will uninstall 2.0.9 and then restore from the archive 2.0.15. The whole process takes 30-seconds.

The disadvantage to this approach is you lose all of you settings - the alarms. It works for me though.

It's unfortunate that WheelLog has turned into a mess (IMHO), regardless of the good intentions.

I am happy to tell you that there is an app (App Cloner) which will let you clone an app, and that clone can have a different name, for example "WheelLog Gotway", and "WheelLog Z10". You can export the .apk

If you whish I could do it for you (install WheelLog 2.0.9, rename the clone to "WheelLog GW", export .apk, then install WheelLog 2.0.15, rename the clone to "WheelLog Z10", export .apk) since it is a paid app. (I am not sure how far the free version lets you go). And also you can change the icon, so it is visually better to tell apart

With this method you could even have the original wheellog from this thread installed. 3 for the price of one!

Cheers!

Edited September 5, 2018 by Struck

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Struck said:

I am happy to tell you that there is an app (App Cloner) which will let you clone an app, and that clone can have a different name, for example "WheelLog Gotway", and "WheelLog Z10". You can export the .apk

If you whish I could do it for you (install WheelLog 2.0.9, rename the clone to "WheelLog GW", export .apk, then install WheelLog 2.0.15, rename the clone to "WheelLog Z10", export .apk) since it is a paid app. (I am not sure how far the free version lets you go). And also you can change the icon, so it is visually better to tell apart

With this method you could even have the original wheellog from this thread installed. 3 for the price of one!

Cheers!

Fantastic! This is the one by AppListo?  Yeah, looks like the free version doesn't allow you to export the cloned app.

Wow, that would be fantastic if you could make the two clones, exactly as you named them.

  

[palachzzz]

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

From my real-world 2-year experience with WheelLog and all my various Gotway wheels, version 2.0.9 and earlier was very accurate and consistent with the Gotway app.

When the app said I had 15% battery, the wheel would start beeping like it should (Gotway wheels will start low-power beeping at 15% battery).

With these newer versions of WheelLog, supposedly more accurate from some theoretical, non-real-world perspective, I'll have 15% reported battery level, but no beeping. Of course when I go into the supposedly inaccurate Gotway app, I'll have 25% battery. Sorry folks, I'm sticking with 2.0.9.

Marty, the latest version you should like is 2.0.13, not 2.0.9. The calculation formulas there are exactly the same as in Gotway application.
The problem is that these formulas aren't accurate. But let me rephrase your "my real-world 2-year experience" into "my 2-year habbits", and in this case everything in your words becomes correct and moreover, now I understand that I agree with you.
In version 2.0.14 I tried to transfer in percentages what would be more correct to attribute to the "remaining mileage" as separate metric. 
Now when I look at the percentages and see the numbers, I do not quite understand how much I can still drive, and how much I still have? for example, I know that I can ride about 8 km after 20% with old formulas, is it real 20% when my total one charge mileage is 70 km? not, it isn't accurate at all, but I knew what it means, because I had it all time before. But now I little bit scared to see 12% at this point, but it is real-world true. 

This applies not only to Gotway, but in general to all the wheels (except KS-18L)

Edited September 5, 2018 by palachzzz

[fbhb]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Fantastic! This is the one by AppListo?  Yeah, looks like the free version doesn't allow you to export the cloned app.

Wow, that would be fantastic if you could make the two clones, exactly as you named them.

@Struck @Marty Backe Thanks for this info. I have just followed what you have both suggested, but only needed the Free version of AppListo App Cloner to enable installing Two versions of Wheellog on my phone. I had already got 2.0.9. installed and for now just left that version named as Wheellog then cloned the apk file for 2.0.15 and re-named it Wheellog Z10 just to test out the install process. That was all I needed to do to enable installing the second version using the App Cloner, it works like a charm!

Edited September 5, 2018 by fbhb

[Boogieman]

1. Tesla off

2. Turn on tesla

3. allow it to idle for 30s to allow battery percentage to stabilise. Then screenshot.

4. Tesla off,uninstall new wheelog and install old

5. Perform step 2-3 again

Measurementsmade directly after each other. No riding in betweeno And on the same phone.

New wheelog on tesla 23% battery

Old wheelog 31% battery

See images.

On new wheeloog i also rode between 6-10% battery for about 3km but no low batt beep from tesla.

@Marty Backe you are correct

 

[meepmeepmayer]

@palachzzz Appreciate very much your effort into keeping Wheellog alive and up-to date Without Wheellog, having to use the official apps, would be a significant reduction in ride experience with our wheels!

A question:

• What is the Gotway formula? Do they just go linearly, aka 3.2V = 0%, 3.3V = 10%, 3.4V = 20% ... 4.2V = 100% (or some other linear progression)? Or is it nonlinear with some empiric values from a table? I would be very interested in such technical details, so if you have them...

And an explanation:

• As a (Gotway) rider, I don't care so much about how much battery % in terms of Watthours used and Wh left I have. What is important for me, how far am I away from the 15% voltage (3.35V?) where the low battery beeps and slowdowns start and where I have some experience how much range I have left before the battery is empty. For example, I know approaching 30% "battery" under no load means the 15% beeps are coming very soon under load.
  So knowing when beeps and slowdown start exactly and reliably is more important than knowing Wh used, because the wheel beeps depend on voltage, not Wh used. That's what @Marty Backe means.
  
  An idea: maybe instead of having one "battery %" reading, have two. One in the old-style, with the inaccurate Gotway-formula which is exact for the beeps, and another one with a formula that is more accurate in counting the Wh used and estimating the Wh left. So for example:
  * Battery (voltage): 31%
  * Battery (Wh): 23%
  (Numbers taken from the post above this one, same battery charge state)

Edited September 5, 2018 by meepmeepmayer

[palachzzz]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

What is the Gotway formula? Do they just go linearly, aka 3.2V = 0%, 3.3V = 10%, 3.4V = 20% ... 4.2V = 100% (or some other linear progression)?

Kind of... 

For 67V version:

battery = ((voltage - 52.90)/13)*100
if (voltage > 65.8) battery = 100
if (voltage < 52.9) battery = 0

Or if we talking about voltage per cell (all versions): 

battery = ((cell_voltage - 3.30625)/0.8125)*100
if (cell_voltage > 4.1125) battery = 100
if (cell_voltage < 3.30625) battery = 0

The problems are: 
- Full charge actually is 4.2V per cell, not 4.11V, that's why you can ride for free (in percent meaning) on full charge (100% won't decrease)
- Discharge curve of most of Li-ion cells at <3.40V becomes nonlinear with a steep falling, that's why at 12% the battery becomes almost empty, any acceleration produce significant voltage sag, and you can't ride normally. 
In the other hand:
- Gotway controllers very inaccurate in voltage measuring, +-1V for 67V version (with linear magnification for 84v and 100v versions), that's why some riders note that their EUC doesn't charging to 100% with new formulas. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Thank you!

[Struck]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:56 AM, Marty Backe said:

Fantastic! This is the one by AppListo?  Yeah, looks like the free version doesn't allow you to export the cloned app.

Wow, that would be fantastic if you could make the two clones, exactly as you named them.

  

Hi @Marty Backe,

I saw while loking for v 2.0.9 that you were not very happy with it (

)

 

Still,

2.0.9 GW: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y5wqvdPTv6dfjqQphp6W84RcMhOR5VoV

2.0.15 Z10: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xm9SX-aUMcyYLVYutoAwDvQ0aOhtr30w

And how it looks in my phone:

 

[Marcglider]

I downloaded the AppListo yesterday... I then downloaded 2 versions of the WheelLog on my phone... the .13 and the .15

When I went to use my Z10 yesterday, I could not get the wheelLog to connect with the wheel... Note: prior to this, I had the .15 on my phone alone and it worked the prior day. Then I tried to connect my GW wheel with it and No connecting anything... I deleted Everything, downloaded the .15 version alone and It connects with my Z10 and also to my GW wheels. 

I am not sure about the battery accuracy and other features. I for the most part use this app with my Pebble Watch to show my current speed and total mileage for that ride, it did seem to be accurate with the battery voltage yesterday compared with the Ninebot app (.15 version), I did not ck with the GW yet... if this helps. 

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Struck said:

Hi @Marty Backe,

I saw while loking for v 2.0.9 that you were not very happy with it (

)

 

Still,

2.0.9 GW: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y5wqvdPTv6dfjqQphp6W84RcMhOR5VoV

2.0.15 Z10: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xm9SX-aUMcyYLVYutoAwDvQ0aOhtr30w

And how it looks in my phone:

 

Very cool @Struck. You even created the custom icons    Even I'm getting confused with the different WheelLog versions. You are correct, the good version that I have on my phone is 2.0.4

However, I installed both versions that you provided and gave them a spin. Unfortunately, as @Marcglider also discovered, the versions created by AppListo will not connect to any of my wheels. I had to authorized Bluetooth access for both versions and the apps see the different wheels, but don't connect. The non-AppListo version of WheelLog still on the phone continues to work.

Maybe there is a unique Bluetooth identifier within WheelLog that is registered on the phone and the AppListo versions aren't working because they are using the same identifier? I uninstalled the working WheelLog but that had no effect.

[fbhb]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

However, I installed both versions that you provided and gave them a spin. Unfortunately, as @Marcglider also discovered, the versions created by AppListo will not connect to any of my wheels. I had to authorized Bluetooth access for both versions and the apps see the different wheels, but don't connect. The non-AppListo version of WheelLog still on the phone continues to work.

Maybe there is a unique Bluetooth identifier within WheelLog that is registered on the phone and the AppListo versions aren't working because they are using the same identifier? I uninstalled the working WheelLog but that had no effect.

Well this is a little disappointing after the initial euphoria of actually getting two different versions of Wheellog to install and open up OK! As I previously posted, I had created a New install apk file with AppListo named Wheellog Z10, to try this out and in preparation for when the Z10 arrives. With not having the wheel as yet I had not tried connecting to Bluetooth, believing that all would be well. Since seeing your post @Marty Backe I have since tried to connect my Tesla to the AppListo Z10 version I created and had the same result as yourself and @Marcglider

[Marcglider]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

Well this is a little disappointing after the initial euphoria of actually getting two different versions of Wheellog to install and open up OK! As I previously posted, I had created a New install apk file with AppListo named Wheellog Z10, to try this out and in preparation for when the Z10 arrives. With not having the wheel as yet I had not tried connecting to Bluetooth, believing that all would be well. Since seeing your post @Marty Backe I have since tried to connect my Tesla to the AppListo Z10 version I created and had the same result as yourself and @Marcglider

It sucks a little but it is not horrible... for me I have the "forked" version of WheelLog in my Download folder... I emailed the .15 Z version that works to my inbox... I will keep the GW app on my phone and if I ride the Z, I delete it and open the .15 version with my email link... really takes about 1 minute in total so while It sucks, I can think of a lot worse things to piss me off... 

I have been trying to set my tire pressures before Every ride, now that seems to bother me being a "pain in the ass" more than the app swapping...  Since I know many people have Much Larger problems than these, I will shut the hell up now lol..

[Christophe Vidal]

@palachzzz

I will receive my first gotway wheel soon (acm16 820Wh) and from what you said about the new formula I think i will just use the latest Wheelog version and that should be ok as i have no comparison with the Gotway app.

This new formula is in fact more accurate than the gotway app's formula right ?

I have not seen someone saying that this new formula is not accurate according to the real capacity of the battery. Look like everyone is not happy just because this is different from what they use to see usually. Maybe i'm wrong

Edited September 7, 2018 by Christophe Vidal

[Struck]

I will try again. There are many cloning options. This time I'll check at least if the cloned versions work with my ks14s ??

[EricGhost]

Sorry if I got lost somewhere but today I tried the app 2.0.15 on my KS18L, and I was scared as my batteries dropped so fast!

I cut my usual trip in a half and went back home with a 32% static and a 25% while moving.

Consumption was almost one third more than usual from a 90% to a 30% instead of 50% or a bit more ?

I was thinking my batteries were damaged, but then I connect with the KS app and found out a battery level 47%! so 15% more which is more consistent with my experience

Which wheellog version shall I use for KS18L ?

Edited September 9, 2018 by EricGhost

[Nils]

5 hours ago, EricGhost said:

Sorry if I got lost somewhere but today I tried the app 2.0.15 on my KS18L, and I was scared as my batteries dropped so fast!

I cut my usual trip in a half and went back home with a 32% static and a 25% while moving.

Consumption was almost one third more than usual from a 90% to a 30% instead of 50% or a bit more ?

I was thinking my batteries were damaged, but then I connect with the KS app and found out a battery level 47%! so 15% more which is more consistent with my experience

Which wheellog version shall I use for KS18L ?

If you read through the last 2 or 3 pages you'll see that later versions of WheelLog employ a new, apparently more realistic, mean of determining the remaining battery capacity. This is not to everyone's liking however, particularly for Gotway users who want the tracking of 15% battery to coincide with the wheels throttling. Anyway, the measuring is not really broken per se, but different (official apps lie and this should from what I understand be more correct). Should this still be a show-stopper for you I think that 2.0.13 was the last version with the old way of measuring.

[EricGhost]

15 hours ago, Nils said:

If you read through the last 2 or 3 pages you'll see that later versions of WheelLog employ a new, apparently more realistic, mean of determining the remaining battery capacity. This is not to everyone's liking however, particularly for Gotway users who want the tracking of 15% battery to coincide with the wheels throttling. Anyway, the measuring is not really broken per se, but different (official apps lie and this should from what I understand be more correct). Should this still be a show-stopper for you I think that 2.0.13 was the last version with the old way of measuring.

I thank you for the correct reference, I re-installed the 2.0.13

If you look back some posts you will see that I did start some computing to find out a proper prediction of left battery and I'm still working on it.

There is a non linearity in the 1rst 10-15% from the full charge (but that is not important as you are in a safe area) and another after around 70% of batteries discharge (to be conservative).

The KS official app does not lie (on the battery, KM is another story) so much if you consider a current around the 3-4A which means <=1A per pack in a 4pack like my KS18L, the batteries behaviour is almost nominal, thank to @palachzzz from the wheellog logs you can analyze your trips and see where you stand.

As far as I saw in the discharge graphs (but internet can mislead also) all LG,Sanyo,Panasonic  NCR18650GA 3500mh are to be considered reliable up to 30% as they can still provide a reliable 10A discharge current which means for a 4pack a 40A. From 100% to 30% the main key of having high currents it is that you waste batteries energy [Wh]=[Ah]*[V]. At higher currents [A] the voltage drops and batteries release less [Wh] therefore they need to use more [Ah] (than at lower currents) to meet in the end the motor [Wh] request.

After 70% of batteries usage the situation it is tricky as it depends a lot on how much current -> torque you ask from your wheel, so I prefer to have the definition of left capacity and  left capacity at 100% performance.

[palachzzz]

2 hours ago, EricGhost said:

The KS official app does not lie (on the battery, KM is another story) so much if you consider a current around the 3-4A which means <=1A per pack in a 4pack like my KS18L, the batteries behaviour is almost nominal

Oh.. Guys, KS official APP lies more than others (Gotwat, Inmo, Ninebot..).. You need to understand physics of discharge graphs, before making any decisions.. 
Take a look to MJ1 graph:

How do you think, why the discharge curves are different for different currents? Because of internal battery resistanсe! When you connect 10A load, battery dissipate some voltage by itself (Ohm's law), this value = internal_resistance*current, and you can see difference about 0.45V-0.5V between 10A and 0.2A, so the internal resistance is about 40-50 mOhm. How do you think, what voltage cell will have if you turn off the load after some time? It will return to zero-current voltage curve: see 15A discharge curve at 1.5 Ah (discharge was stopped because of overheat).
Therefore, if you want to know battery condition using voltage measure (everyone does this, except Ninebot), you should measure the voltage at a near-zero current and use about zero-current discharge curve (at least 0.2A in our case), or make a correction taking into account the immediate current and the internal resistance of the battery (such thing does Inmo controller, except V10/F)

And you can see steep falling after 3.45V for MJ1 cells, so KS formula which is linear from 4.125V to 3.0V cell voltage (18L, and to 3.125 for 67V wheels) shows some kind of non-relevant bullshit, but not battery charge. For example, it shows 27% at 68V, it is 3.4V per cell, can you find 27% of battery capacity after 3.4V on this graph? 
By the way, there are no WheelLog version for 84V KingSong which show the same numbers that KS APP for such EUCs (only 18L for now)

Edited September 10, 2018 by palachzzz

[EricGhost]

@palachzzz my mind was on my computing and when I said the app does not lie I intended the voltage at static, which is the only reference I take as almost good to know the left energy at zero ampere.

so when you stop you do know what is left for small load. The problem is which loads are you going to use? I’m trying to elaborate a near future from the recent past through the recording of wheelLog logs

As I wrote everything change under load and of course the KS app statement about future km is completely unreliable, that is the reason I felt the need of a more accurate prediction!

BTW MANY CURVES

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/batteries/18650/52414-3500mah-league-sanyo-ncr18650ga-panasonic-ncr18650ga-lg-mj1-samsung-inr18650-35e

In these curves at 3.4V you have 2.8Ah for 0.7A now the area of the trapezoid (4.2+3.4)*2.8/2=10.5Wh full charge around 12.5 then 10.5/12.5=0.84 not so far 16% left against 27% 

Edited September 10, 2018 by EricGhost

[Marcglider]

I had posted in the recent past about a repair on the internet to stop the Pebble watches from "tearing" which consists of removing the back, and shimming the vibrator so it presses against the contact on the face side of the watch... just wanted to report that since I did this, I have not had any tearing on the screen, not even once...