ewheels - future of urban transportation?

[Daan]

Just saw a super inspiring video of 'barefoot' Ted (the ultra-marathon runner) about eWheels:

He talks about re-imagining the future of urban transportation.

This is what I have been thinking about a lot recently; the amount of cars and big roads is just crazy. Even if all cars would be electric, it still has such a profound impact on how a city looks and how we get around (and traffic jams are not solved by electric cars). I would love to see cities to be more friendly for EUC's instead   Imagine, smooth dedicated asphalt paths with bridges and tunnels so there will be few traffic stops -- actually, in Holland there are already many of such bicycle lanes. The EUC though is special, because as Ted says in the video, given its limited speed an maneuverability it fits the human body well and you get the 'flow' -- and if you have flow, you feel happy

Here in Washington state, 90% of the electricity is from water dams so the use of a EUC has such a tiny impact on energy compared to any gasoline car.

Anyway, just some thoughts -- would love to hear the opinion and vision of others.

[Mono]

What is the future of EUCs? My guess: in 25 years from now EUCs will be a natural means of individual transportation, as bicycles have been for decades and, by now, pedelecs are at least in some places. For EUCs it will essentially take one generation: in a few years from now, most kids will want to have an EUC, many will get one, and most will at least have learned how to ride one. The rest will be history, determined by the usefulness/cost-effectiveness of EUCs as transportation device when these kids have grown up. I don't want to say that this scenario is certain (new means of individual public transportation could make it obsolete), but it seems a likely future scenario to me. Even significant architectural changes of cities might follow suit, which would indeed be awesome. My point: I doubt that EUCs will be just a fashionable trend for a few years and then forgotten.

 

[bleu9mm]

I bought my wheel because I was looking for an alternative mode of transportation to commute between home and the office. I have a small 3,1 Km between them. Sometimes it takes me more than 17 minutes with my car. That's ridiculous. With my wheel, I will use the empty sidewalks !!! Cool !!

Bleu9mm

[Gabriel]

hi,

I'm living in Holland and I am also interested to step into the Ewheel market. Holland provides many bicycle lanes and well asphalted roads, distances are small in cities, with dense residential areas and a lot of small local shops. Therefore Ewheels might become as popular as bicycles are at the moment here. But I see still some shortcomings versus bicycles or even now the very trendy E-bicycles, which bring the same advantages as bicycles but are faster and effortless (especially when facing strong wind gusts that are almost blocking you on the spot). These are:

for commuting: bicycle shed are provided in train stations but would you lock a much more expensive Ewheel and let it there the whole day ? Already not so desirable bicycles get stolen, so a 2000$ Solowheel might get lost quite quickly. One possibility is that people could also take them in the train, plane, bus, but it means that big models above around 10 kg or 14" wheel would not be suitable for it, but this is exactly this kind of models that are the safest (from what I have read) since they present powerful motors and larger wheels ride easily above roots or bumps.

for shopping: the good thing about rear bicycle racks is that you can carry almost anything on it, including your girlfriend or your kid. Try to do the same with an Ewheel ! And is it safe to ride an ewheel while holding shopping bags that might influence your balance ?

for going out : Ok, it looks super cool to arrive in front of a bar with an Ewheel, but how is it after having some (or many) drinks ? Well, I have to wait to see a drunk ewheel user passing by to answer that question ...

Weather conditions: As you may know, there is a lot of wind (and rain) in Holland. I know that wind gusts are extremely unpleasant while cycling, including the risk of falling with gusts coming sideways. And I would expect the same problems while using a Ewheel (even a little more since the body surface is offering a larger aera of resistance). About rain, Ewheels might have an advantage, since you can still hold an umbrella with one hand :-)

Lack of battery power: Ok, it can happen to have forgotten to recharge the battery or time is not sufficient for a full charge. With an E-bicycle and even with discharged batteries you are still on two wheels and can pedaling (not so pleasant but at least you are going forward...). With an Ewheel and a discharge battery you end up walking back home while having to carry on a 10-15 kg Ewheel on your shoulder (and of course exactly at that moment, it will start to rain...)

Well, these are of course just minor problems that might be remedied in the future if Ewheels become mass products including more practical accessories, like built-in locks, (kind of) shopping baskets, etc ... At least some models have already front and rear lights, so they start understanding. In the mean time, by looking at pictures on manufacturer websites, it seems that they only target teenies who want to look cool. Like a kind of new skate board toy. So, will E-wheels be more mature and replace (E-)bicycles ? I don't know.

[Mono]

[...] by looking at pictures on manufacturer websites, it seems that they only target teenies who want to look cool. Like a kind of new skate board toy.

We might not like it, but to me that seems to be the very rational choice for the manufacturers. At this point in time, only a small fraction of adults will seriously consider to buy an EUC, while almost every kid who gets to know about them will want one. This will somewhat change in future, when most adults learned how to ride an EUC when they were ten years old.

[Jag_Rip]

the wind thing and the umbrella on a EUC wont always mix.. I wouldnt want to hold an umbrella riding on my commute, maybe to stroll from bar to bar (interesting thought about "balancing" a EUC while drunk btw.. any volunteering testers? ). But yeah with the EUCs being more common (e.g. people able to ride them instantly) the probability of stealing one in the bikestand in front of a restaurant or similar will rise. I was already hoping they'd had implemented something with the current generation of wheels, but it seems thieves cant ride EUC yet and to carry them fast and far on foot they are still too heavy

[Tilmann]

We might not like it, but to me that seems to be the very rational choice for the manufacturers. At this point in time, only a small fraction of adults will seriously consider to buy an EUC, while almost every kid who gets to know about them will want one. This will somewhat change in future, when most adults learned how to ride an EUC when they were ten years old.

Now, this might be influenced by my own age (59), but my observation is entirely different. Since commuting to my work place, I got several colleagues hooked on the idea of buying their own EUC and one already did. They are mostly in the age range 30-50. 

Most of the interested reactions I get on the streets also come from people aged 30+, sometimes pointing me out to their young kids. What's especially amusing to see when passing young couples, is the forceful effort by the male part to look entirely unimpressed in the presence of their girlfriends 

[Mono]

I have similar experiences, obviously. It's mostly (though not only) middle-aged men approaching me wanting to know what this strange device is and how it works... That doesn't however mean that more than a small fraction even of this specific group will consider buying one. In my experience even many of them immediately find excuses why they can't have one, often because of their balancing issues... The good news is that even 1% of all middle-aged men is a huge market, so I am not at all worried.

[MarkoMarjamaa]

What's especially amusing to see when passing young couples, is the forceful effort by the male part to look entirely unimpressed in the presence of their girlfriends 

I'm glad someone mentions this, I've seen the same reaction

EUC + alcohol: I can drink one beer and still drive. But if someone wants to get properly loaded ( Finnish way), then there is no vehicle you can drive. Not bicycle, not EUC, not car. Then you take a taxi.

EUC+ shopping bags: I don't think they will be a big problem. I've already ridden in Amsterdam with bags in my hands and a backpack. I should post a video when a ride with a foldable Oru kayak on my back. 

EUc+ strong winds: I don't know what is considered as strong winds but I went riding in Helsinki promenade and Espoo bicycle routes near sea when there was 17 m/s winds and I didn't went there because I had to but because it was fun

 

[Rick McWilliams]

I made my first long sortie into town yesterday. I live in Santa Paula, a small town in southern California. I rode mostly on the sidewalks and bike lane. Motorists were conspicuously looking at me, two stopped and asked me what I was riding. I expect my next trip will be reported in the newspaper. It seems very popular. Speed bumps are scary when my feet lift off the pegs.

My friends seem to be a more cautious lot. The 20 yo pick up riding very quickly. Others say they do not want to bust their butt. The airplane and helicopter pilots all had to try it, they will be the early adopters here.

[Daan]

But I see still some shortcomings versus bicycles or even now the very trendy E-bicycles, which bring the same advantages as bicycles but are faster and effortless (especially when facing strong wind gusts that are almost blocking you on the spot). These are:

Hi Gabriel -- ik ben ook Nederlander  (but living in the US),

 You make an interesting point about 'electric bicycles' -- these are super popular in Holland, it seems everyone over 50 has one. To me the best things about electric bicycles are that they are safe (two wheels) and use the existing bicycle infrastructure, and they are semi-fast (easy to go 24km/hr -- which I feel eWheels should have too as their max speed).

I don't think eWheels can directly compete against eBicycles with regard to ease of use, speed, and range. However, the eWheel *can* compete in different usage areas. In particular, the parking. A bike needs to be parked at, say, the station and that costs money and is a hassle. As you say, nobody would leave their expensive bike in public parking outside. But the eWheel is great to take with you in the train or bus -- even for 18" wheels this is no problem; I took it on the plane without trouble. Now, you have transportation that is always with you and an eWheel definitely replaces folding bikes for example. Moreover, you can take the eWheel many places where a bike cannot come -- stairs are no problem, just pick up the wheel. I agree though, it would be great if the wheels could come done to under 10kg for an 18" wheel (the new Solowheel Orbit may do that!)

btw. In Holland even a cheap eBicycle starts at $1400,- and in the US they are at least $3000,-   eWheels can be much cheaper.

Anyway, anything that replaces big gasoline cars would be great; in that way Holland is already doing great with all the bicycle infrastructure; a luxury that most of the world does not have  When I take out my eWheel I mostly plan around the best roads that are safest with regard to traffic where I can avoid being on the car lanes -- not so great. I wish there were better bike lines.

[esaj]

Speed bumps are scary when my feet lift off the pegs.

Bend your knees to absorb the shock, that way your feet will stay on the pedals.

[Mono]

Re EUCs for shopping: 

[Daan]

Here is another (more serious ) shopping video:

[EDL]

I'm pretty sure the EUC is not the wave of future transport.  Don't get me wrong, I love mine, but I don't see this catching on widespread at all.  It's too slow, too heavy, too difficult to learn, too short a range...etc...when you consider it's viability to a wider audience.  Along with the other limitations already mentioned, and I especially agree with the comparisons to bikes.

Those of us on this board don't count.  We're the early adopters.  We want it to work and will go out of our way to make it functional.

Feet are free and everyone knows how to use them.  That's a hard product to beat.  And those people who can't walk are probably not suitable for riding an EUC anyway.

 

My point is the EUC is awesome, but in my opinion it has too many limitations that will keep it from becoming the end all of urban public transport.  But perhaps the technology it is helping to push along will help to usher in something that will replace our feet.

[Mono]

@EDL, you seem to suggest that driving an EUC is too difficult to learn to become a main stream means of individual transportation. Do you think that it's more difficult to learn than riding a bicycle?

[EDL]

@Niko I don't think it is much harder than learning to ride a bike, but overall the bike has a lot more going for it:  parking spaces, carrying capacity (baskets, child seats, etc), unlimited range, higher speeds, accessible repair shops (bike stores), ...

But you are right for calling me out on that.  I guess what I should have said is that the EUC is perceived as more difficult to learn.  At least that has been my experience while giving demos, even though it seems to rapidly fade once someone gets on and moving even while holding my hand.  But it's hard to give everyone a personal demo.  So add that perception to the other drawbacks and that'll give anyone trying to push the EUC for mass urban transport an uphill battle.

I should note I also don't think it is any more dangerous than riding a bike.

I wonder what held back the Segway from being the transportation revolutionizer people thought it would be?

[hobby16]

 

I wonder what held back the Segway from being the transportation revolutionizer people thought it would be?

Price, weight, width, volume (I can put my 4 wheels in my car's trunk, try doing so with 4 Segways !), much less manoeuvrability. And probably the fact you are perceived as having some disabilities whereas with the monowheel, you are like an acrobat.

[Daan]

Don't get me wrong, I love mine, but I don't see this catching on widespread at all.  It's too slow, too heavy, too difficult to learn, too short a range...etc...when you consider it's viability to a wider audience.  Along with the other limitations already mentioned, and I especially agree with the comparisons to bikes.

Yeah, good points. But consider that a bike is still heavy and big (i.e. cannot take it in a car or train easily) and that 'parking' is really not necessary for the wheel since you will always take it with you (in the shopping cart, in your office, etc).

I think the main thing holding eWheels back at this point is mostly the weight. If they can come up with lighter models it will be more attractive as it can fill a void where other vehicles like segways or electric bikes don't fit in. Mostly 'the last mile', or commuting partially with a bus/train/plane. Or short urban distances where it is super attractive if you can take the wheel inside (the office for example) and don't have to leave it outside (or need to find a parking spot).

[Mono]

@Niko I don't think it is much harder than learning to ride a bike, but overall the bike has a lot more going for it:  parking spaces, carrying capacity (baskets, child seats, etc), unlimited range, higher speeds, accessible repair shops (bike stores), ...

For the most part I admit that I find it difficult to follow. I agree that child seats and EUCs for carrying loads will not be the future. I also understand that bicycles tend to be able to go faster than EUCs. Yet, for the average speed and typical rides I think the difference is likely to be small, even almost irrelevant. I would believe that many cyclers go rarely if ever above 25km/h top speed. 

On the other hand, I couldn't think of any new technology that had repair shops or parking spaces ready even before the technology was introduced. Those usually come as consequences of the success, not as prerequisites. I haven't heard of any bicycle which has unlimited range (sure, the energy comes from a food store rather than from the electric plug, yet...). I would believe that 95% of all urban bicycle rides go for less than 12km one-way and most cyclers are not prepared to go further anyway.

EUCs tend to be smaller and (in future) lighter than bicycles, let alone pedelecs. That they are easy to carry around inside and taken in trains or busses or cars is in my estimation a relevant factor. Another factor is that they are less exhausting to ride than bicycles. Yet, I would think that the typical one-way travel distance will be rather 2-5km than 10km. 

But you are right for calling me out on that.  I guess what I should have said is that the EUC is perceived as more difficult to learn.  At least that has been my experience while giving demos, even though it seems to rapidly fade once someone gets on and moving even while holding my hand.  But it's hard to give everyone a personal demo.  So add that perception to the other drawbacks and that'll give anyone trying to push the EUC for mass urban transport an uphill battle.

I agree, it will take one generation, and in this sense it is different from pedelecs which took a transportation spot in only a few years. EUCs won't become a widely accepted means of transportation for those who are now 25+ years of age. I don't think however one needs to fight an uphill battle to convince kids that EUCs are a nice toy to play with. If this is happening, it's not happening due to pushing someone or something, but because these grown up kids choose it naturally.

I should note I also don't think it is any more dangerous than riding a bike.

I wonder what held back the Segway from being the transportation revolutionizer people thought it would be?

I can't remember to have thought for a second that the Segway would play a relevant role in future transportation. They are too large, too heavy and too expensive, and any of these are not likely to change through technological development. In some way EUCs are the necessary changes to the Segway to become a widely accepted means of transportation. I wouldn't talk about revolution anyway, even though I could imagine that in 30 years from now more inner-city distance is traveled with EUCs than with bicycles. In any case, as someone has already said, it is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.

[esaj]

For the most part I admit that I find it difficult to follow. I agree that child seats and EUCs for carrying loads will not be the future. I also understand that bicycles tend to be able to go faster than EUCs. Yet, for the average speed and typical rides I think the difference is likely to be small, even almost irrelevant. I would believe that many cyclers go rarely if ever above 25km/h top speed. 

I'm not a super-fit cyclist and I ride 25-30km/h as "normal" basic speed and 45-50km/h top speed on old rusted cheapo-hybrid. At least in this city, most cyclists who do it daily, ride at around 30km/h from my experience (not speaking about road bikes, they go 40-60km/h+). That's the very reason I see it as a bad thing that the coming legislation is putting EUCs at the bike-category and at the same time limiting the top speed to 25km/h. I'm ok with speed limits, but apparently this must be a technical limit on the wheel itself (I don't know what they actually mean by that, does it mean the motor must shut down if you go over?), and if it means the wheel is at full tilt-back when doing 25km/h, nobody will ride at that speed, and it's going to cause trouble in bike lanes after they've become more mainstream, I know I'd be pissed to ride 20km/h or so behind EUCs when I'm riding a bike. When I wasn't yet working from home full-time, I did my 7km (one-way) commute with hills at 16-17 minutes on a bike, including traffic lights (so around 23-24km/h average speed). That's faster average speed than with Firewheel, with EUC my usual 20 kilometerish routes are at around 19-22km/h average speed.

[Jason McNeil]

With the +<64cell class of eWheels are technically capable of integration with cycle traffic. Even traditional speed conservatives, like IPS have made the leap into the 30kph territory. Agree with @Esaj that cyclists don't want to be held up; in fact, even if you can keep up, there will be a large percentage of cyclists who will look at you askance, because they perceive it as somehow cheating; an ethos that could be summarized as 'if you don't break into a sweat while covering the miles, you're responsible for wiping out the polar bear population.' Ridiculous of course, seeing that Co2/km figures for eWheels are less than cycling:

https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/12/13/co2-emissions-from-cycling-revealed/
According to the report cycling is responsible for CO2 emissions of 21g per km. The calculations included emissions associated with production, maintenance and fuel. 

[MarkoMarjamaa]

I don't think it takes 25 years. 5 years. Every kid&teen wants it and then their parents "have" to learn it too. I've ridden past school classes and you can see from every kids eyes 'I want that'.

EUC looks cool. That will be it's strongest selling point. It does not look like you are just lazy. Riding an EUC feels good.

Those who use already bicycle for commuting will not probably change to EUC. EUC is best for first&last-mile-commuting because it's easy to get inside bus or subway.

It is not convenient to carry your 10kg EUC inside a shop unless there are some kind of shopping carts or lockers for shopping center.

It is not reasonable to count co2 emissions for cycling or walking because they keep you more fit than EUC. I would like an EUC that I can generate power myself but it does not exist.

 

[Gabriel]

Hi Gabriel -- ik ben ook Nederlander  (but living in the US),

 You make an interesting point about 'electric bicycles' -- these are super popular in Holland, it seems everyone over 50 has one. To me the best things about electric bicycles are that they are safe (two wheels) and use the existing bicycle infrastructure, and they are semi-fast (easy to go 24km/hr -- which I feel eWheels should have too as their max speed).

I don't think eWheels can directly compete against eBicycles with regard to ease of use, speed, and range. However, the eWheel *can* compete in different usage areas. In particular, the parking. A bike needs to be parked at, say, the station and that costs money and is a hassle. As you say, nobody would leave their expensive bike in public parking outside. But the eWheel is great to take with you in the train or bus -- even for 18" wheels this is no problem; I took it on the plane without trouble. Now, you have transportation that is always with you and an eWheel definitely replaces folding bikes for example. Moreover, you can take the eWheel many places where a bike cannot come -- stairs are no problem, just pick up the wheel. I agree though, it would be great if the wheels could come done to under 10kg for an 18" wheel (the new Solowheel Orbit may do that!)

btw. In Holland even a cheap eBicycle starts at $1400,- and in the US they are at least $3000,-   eWheels can be much cheaper.

Anyway, anything that replaces big gasoline cars would be great; in that way Holland is already doing great with all the bicycle infrastructure; a luxury that most of the world does not have  When I take out my eWheel I mostly plan around the best roads that are safest with regard to traffic where I can avoid being on the car lanes -- not so great. I wish there were better bike lines.

hi, daan

interesting how the world is mixed, you dutch living in US, me french living in your homecountry (very nice btw)

you made the point, I think also there is no direct replacement for e-bicycles with eWheels but more a kind of alternative choice. I am myself waiting of a not two slow and light (10kg max.) eWheel exactly for the reason you mentioned. Taking it with you in other public transports (in this regard living in Europe is great) and alternate between public transports and an eWheel. Here in the Randstad the possibilities are just endless. Even for taking it with me temporary in a backpack in non urban areas sounds feasible. Maybe the new IPS zero will fill these expectations (Gotway14 MCM2s has it on the paper but seems very annoying with all these beeps).

[Jason McNeil]

It is not reasonable to count co2 emissions for cycling or walking because they keep you more fit than EUC. I would like an EUC that I can generate power myself but it does not exist

People can exercise when they want to exercise & use transport when they need to get places. With the Co2/km, it's simply a fact, I think it's perfectly reasonable to compare them to each other, for most people they have similar reach & range.

Bicycles are great tools & countries like Holland, Denmark.. have extensive investment in this infrastructure, but it's no reason to be narrow minded believing that this will lead to some golden green Nirvana. A free market allows people to make their own choices & it's up for individuals to decide which tool they wish to use for which purpose.