novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 just because somebody slapped together some stuff, doesn't mean it's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, novazeus said: just because somebody slapped together some stuff, doesn't mean it's right. That looks like the new Teeter chair for equine. Very therapeutic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 1 hour ago, novazeus said: @RenaissanceMan i didn't see it. probably because of the different spelling. obviously the tire(tyre) works ok but it strikes me funny how a manufacturer can cobble together a product without getting it right. it is what it is. theoretically, a 70kg tire should have more flats than say a 100kg tire. if somebody experiences a blowout that results in injury or death in america, i guarantee u, one of america's lawyers will be going after king song, the vendor who sold it, the tire company etc etc. as far as i'm concerned, if i sold my wheel to someone else, they'd have to sign a waiver regarding the load capacity of the tire and not to be used by anybody over 117 pounds. i have enough trouble without knowingly making myself liable. i'm not happy with king song engineering. i notice nobody from king song has commented, they can't, nothing they can say. Puuh, my 2 cents: you have to cool down on the tires.... Like @Keith said: Until today there is NO tire existing which is exspecially produced for "one wheel" use... Then there is also the fact, that our EUC's, are mostly coming from some very small chinese factories, which did not have the financial background to produce an completly new developed tire for their purpose. I guess you overestimate the world wide sales of EUC's...they are a total nische product for technical enthusiasts! Even the much bigger companies like Ninebot and Inmotion did not get to produce a tire for their own needs! As iam jumping around here quite a bit and also monitor the EUC market in general, i can assure you that the tire pressure, their max load and capability is one of our smallest problem :-) Then regarding the "commenting of Kingsong" here on this thread....i guess we can be happy that some of these small garage Chinese companies even have english speaking people, which from time to time come here and give some infos and/or troubleshooting! Even worldwide tech firms like Samsung/apple dont comment on forums and instead would advise to contact the seller in case of problems. If you are not "satisfied with Kingsong engineering "...... i would advise to pick up/check a wheel from some other company. You might get a slightly better quality with other companies( but also no One wheel tire inside the wheel weight specs), but have much less performance. You might get better performance, but instead -really- quality issues with other companies. And to this lawyer thing: I will see the lawyer taking a case against this garage company in the suburbs of a chinese town...Good Luck getting money from them. Or even better: Chasing the aliexpress seller who sold you that wheel :-) Not meant as offense, really, but It just seams to me your exspectations are much to high...i mean, you are driving a vehicle, that can send you flying if just ONE little conducter, resistor, batteriecell, soldering or whatever else fails and you are worrying about the tire imprint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 @KingSong69 i agree with u, a lawyer won't go after king song probably, somebody like myself, had i chose to be a distributor/dealer or jason, if he has deep pockets. i was hoping these devices might go mainstream but with the regulations in america, ain't gonna happen with these specs. king song produced this spec sheet, i'm just trying to figure out how they ascertained their 150kg load rating on the device. if they claimed a top speed of twenty mph but only went 15 mph, others might complain. depends on what is important to u. i hope their attention to detail is better on whether the batteries explode, etc. king song says they can produce 5000 wheels a month btw. didn't really follow hoverboards butthey got a bad rep for burning up, and consequently, none allowed on planes i guess. i did buy a ninebot1s2., no capacity rating on their tire. in reality, the ks-16s is fine, their spec sheet needs a correction, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 @KingSong69 bottom line, i don't like being lied to. u may be correct about all the other problems with euc, but the load rating on the tire, stops any further investigation of this wheel. my wheels are brand new, if king song wants to buy them back and sell them to somebody that doesn't care about tire load capacity, please do. i'll wait until somebody does build a wheel to reasonable specifications. i'd be interested in knowing what the tire load capacities are on other wheels. pretty main component of an euc, i would think. hot climates like florida would probably have more issues of tire overloading. idk but these oscillations i hear about could be related to tire overloading. i'm looking at this as a business venture, not just for fun. if ur telling me that these things in ur opinion are too dangerous excluding the tire to be mainstream, then maybe it's a non-starter. like i said, i've only seen one in the wild and that was a sailboat guy in port. last mile portable transportation could be an application of this device, but not with an obvious design flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 These " oscillations" you "have heard" are on Gotway wheels because of firmware...has nothing to do with tires... In reality it is that Kingsong is using "Kenda" tires, which are more on the better side tires in asia, at least they have specifications :-) Ok, give your wheels back to the sellers because "you have been lied" about the wheel weight capacity! And yeah...wait till someone does build a wheel with reasonable specifications...when you think that a Ninebot tire is better, because there is no weight limit on it? Lol...Good luck finding a EUC with better tire specs! I better be quiet now...and waste my time on some more important topics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 @KingSong69 what are the tire load ratings of the other wheels? and no of course not, on the 9bot, i'm still waiting to hear back from ninebotusa. if u love kingsong or any other manufacturer, that's up to u, but u don't design something and then just stick willy nilly specs on ur data sheet cause u feel like it. i've already sued ford once because of this. i don't know ur occupation, but for me for the most part, i'm a builder/designer of many different things, mostly high end custom homes. i've been dealing with chinese garbage my whole life. 150 kg as opposed to real life 70kg isn't just stretching the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I searched a little on tire pressure and found that it is the load within the tire and not the load on the tire. Otherwise the would be no 3,4,5 person tandem bikes or bike taxis. Here is a post from a bicycle forum... orry. Those limits have a huge margin of safety otherwise Santana and others could not be turning out 3, 4, and 5 person bikes. I have read that the tire pressure that will blow a tire off its rim is about double the recommended pressure. The total weight on my tandem's tires of a 50+ lb bike, gear, 260+ wife and 205+ captain works out to ~250 lb per 26"x 2" Specialized tire at the sidewall stated 65 PSI. Works fine it starts, "Not to worry" http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/320799-weight-tire-load-capacity.html here is a better link below to describe what Load rating means. Its not at all what you have described. Its a formula for figuring out how much of the tire will contact the ground and how much air pressure is needed, or suggested for optimal wear. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 @Stan Onymous i've got some swamp land i can sell u. just don't look at it after this hurricane hits me. there's no way u can dress this pig, it stilla pig. this one poster has it right. from 19 to 24, i put in bank equipment for diebold. i know all about tire load capacity and real world problems arising from overloading. The load weight rating on a tire is the total load on that individual tire, at maximum recommended cold air pressure. If you have two 600# tires, and the total load of the bike is 1200#,(assuming a 50/50 split) rider, bike, and load, you are good to go - if more than that, you need a heavier rated tire. that's it, end of story. these devices might be better than sex but that doesn't mean they can re-invent tire capacity. if they have, i just would like to hear a real logical explanation, not my fat wife rides one with no problem, type of proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 You do have a point. I guess the problem simply is that for their original intended use it was not necessary to have the tire rated higher than it currently is, even if it might withstand the extra load. But it's a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 what ever the tire is rated for, at this point, i just wanna know why they bother killing trees to spew specifications from disneyworld. included in their "hightlights" they say "easy to operate" probably not true either. i did find a kingsong tutorial video that i thought was very good. if i had to build a euc, i would probably designed it around the load capacity of available tires. unless you are gonna build a new tire, no reason to design it beyond the load capacity of the tire. if by some magic, i can produce a 16" tire that has a 150 kg load capacity, is the rest of the wheel designed to handle that load or is that bs also. i'm looking at this more from the mechantability of this device as opposed to "it's fun, don't worry about it" approach. for fun, i'd prefer this but i think personal ground transportation might go mainstream first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 i ordered one of these kiwano k01 that supposedly has a 550 lb rating. i just asked them about their tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 1 hour ago, novazeus said: The load weight rating on a tire is the total load on that individual tire, at maximum recommended cold air pressure. If you have two 600# tires, and the total load of the bike is 1200#,(assuming a 50/50 split) rider, bike, and load, you are good to go - if more than that, you need a heavier rated tire. Nope that is the conclusion of a neophyte. Do you honestly think your observation skills are soooooooooo much better than the manufacturers and the consumer organizations you go right ahead and show people how Smart you are. I think it just means you haven't researched the topic. Florida has been a bad buy since the 1920's. Never got any better. for instance a 60psi tire that is inflated to 60psi is under more pressure when a 100kg rider sits on it , yes? Are you going to deflate the tire pressure? No, you are going to displace that weight from an inch to almost 2 inches. So the load rating of the tire tells you in a relationship to rider weight how many square inches will touch the ground to diplace the rider weight. A 500lb tire will contact a half an inch maybe, and that is for skinny speed tires, since friction is a decelerant. you go ahead and spend that money tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 @Stan Onymous the load rating of a tire is the load rating of the tire as determined by the tire manufacturer, i guess. idk how they determine that but some do and put it on their tire. max load means maximum load. period. can you overload tires, sure. would u buy a boat trailer rated at 20000 pounds with 6 tires rated at 3000lbs? no you wouldn't unless you knew the axles and wheels would support more and you just figured on changing the tires before loading it. i'm not saying these devices don't work, i just wanna see their math. idk if tire pressue as recorded by a tire gauge increases as the load increases. never checked them after loading, but i will and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 3 hours ago, novazeus said: i ordered one of these kiwano k01 that supposedly has a 550 lb rating. i just asked them about their tire. That wheelie bar on the front would probably prevent a crash if the wheel just shut off. But it should be closer to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 electric unicycle with battery and controls in a stick instead of a case, i think. kiwano k01. i wonder what the load capacity of the 9botz tire is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, novazeus said: electric unicycle with battery and controls in a stick instead of a case, i think. kiwano k01. i wonder what the load capacity of the 9botz tire is? Whoa, that was weird, I must have Googled wrong. Ninebot don't say, so your good to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, novazeus said: @Stan Onymous the load rating of a tire is the load rating of the tire as determined by the tire manufacturer, And the manufacturer says.....? The Schwalbe webside defines "load" as "Maximum Load in kilograms per tire at maximum pressure". Question answered for Schwalbe tires, but each manufacturer has different methods and it is not standardized by either of the international tire regulatory groups. But then on the Livestrong website it said it is dependent on width and tire pressure. Since wide tires can hold more weight since more square inches are contacting the ground. Thin tires from 20mm - 37mm require higher tire pressures 100-120 psi in some cases in order to cushion the or rathe support the load put on the tire. The other factor in bicycles is the rim. How many spokes, whats it made of, width, etc. all determine weight load as much or more than tire load and pressures. other bicycle groups have never seen tire load ratings on tires and it seems Schwalbe is leading the pack so to speak in that department. Ill still stick by Sheldon Browne. Look at the guy. Would he lie? I mean about tires.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 @Stan Onymous ya kilos or pounds doesn't matter. i'm 63, been screwing with tires for a long time and max load is at max pressure as indicated on the sidewall. if ur not running this kenda tire at max pressure ur not gonna even get 70kg out og it, according to kenda. i've got some kenda's on one of my polaris rangers, they r ok, i guess. if i survive this hurricane, i'll contact kenda and get the straight dope from them. doesn't mean u shouldn't ride ur wheel, just means it was poorly engineered if u ask me. like i said, idk how u hand that spec sheet to a customer, he looks at the tire, and asks u to explain. i have a flhrse4 harley, about 800 pounds, it requires different load rated tires than my ktm superduke "r", which weighs about 400 pounds. is having a ks-16s euc with a rider capacity of 117 pounds gonna keep me off it, nope, but if the tire goes flat, i will be pissed and will be looking for a different tire. and no i'm not gonna slime my tires. glad my 18s has a usb plug, might come in handy for charging the phones and flashlights after tmrw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 @steve454 idk if the guy at ninebotusa was acting but he had never thought about tire load capacity. i want to know what their new wheel tire capacity is. with their marketing, it sure looks like they are trying to leap over hobbyist/experimental/ethusiast and take it mainstream. supposedly the k01 is gonna be in best buy. u know i was actually surprised they sold hoverboards in walmart. i thought the bad press would have killed those. i'm old enough to remember dean kamen announcing the original segway. in fact i have one of his guitars with me now. never was interested in any electric vehicle until tesla and this. except for dji drones and i have two $200 batteries that are duds and out of warranty. my makita drills work good. got a battery operated chainsaw, like it. i have high hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 From what I read, bicycle tire load on bike tires mean nothing if 1, the tire is over 2" and 2., the rim is too flimsy. It is a new measurement on bicycle tires meant to sell assurance in skinnier tires. I will bet that the bike frame for a kids bike or 14-18" framed bikes can only handle 250lbs max, so they Kenda probably put that on there due to the bikes limitations, and not any actual testing. almost no mainstream bicycle tires list load limits on them, and ISO and/or ETRTO are either silent or entirely vague, relying on the manufacturers to self report whatever they see fit, since there are as of yet no standards motorcycles and cars have different DOT requirements and there, the load specifications are coded for auto tires and not so sure about Motorcycle tires labeling requirements. almost every website stated that tire pressure was the most important factor related to tire width for carrying weight. Skinnier tires require more pressure to hold heavier loads, so they may need testing more than wider tires which can hold more weight at lower pressures, sometimes half the pressure of skinnier tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 @Stan Onymous kenda clearly states maximum load! doesn't matter if u put the tire on a lawn mower, kids bike etc. i didn't invent their rating, they did. this is an actual picture of my ks-16s tire. 80 kgs less than kingsong's stated maximum load. if there was no rating on the side of the tire, they could plea ignorance. two wheels side by side wouldn't get them to 150kg. it's math. period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 3 hours ago, novazeus said: @Stan Onymous kenda clearly states maximum load! doesn't matter if u put the tire on a lawn mower, kids bike etc. i didn't invent their rating, they did. this is an actual picture of my ks-16s tire. 80 kgs less than kingsong's stated maximum load. if there was no rating on the side of the tire, they could plea ignorance. two wheels side by side wouldn't get them to 150kg. it's math. period. Well according to Schwalbe's rating system it is the maximum weight before the sides of the tire weaken between 6000 and 12,000 miles. So knock yourself out big guy. Lol its a made up stat on bikes that they must've thought would soothe the consumer. Boy were they wrong? Something must have gotten lost in translation I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 If you look at your car tire pressure recommendations: higher load = higher pressure I'm not sure if there are any dedicated EUC tires available; welcome in the uncharted teritory of EUC riding. I run an IPS 16 inch at 4bar, 100-110 kg ps: bikes usually have 2 wheels, so to exceed the max load of 70kg you have to be a pretty big cycler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Zens Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 My KS16S tire looks different. There is no max load indication at all. It has the dimensions printed on it, as well as min/max pressure, but no sign of max load. I checked both sides multiple times. Instead, I found this funny green dragon. On the left, it just says "Kenda Tires", and the characters on the right (耐磨胎) mean "wearable tire", could be interpreted as "high durability" or something like that. I came across a Kenda tire for e-bikes, advertising "extra sidewall stability". Also, speed seems to be a factor even for bicycle tires. Kendas EMC type is advertised as "ECE-R75 certified and approved for usage on e-bikes up to 50 km/h". I think the main point is that at any given pressure, the load should not reach values where excessive deformation of the sidewall occurs. This would cause high wear, heat, and premature tire failure. I guess at lower than average speeds, a little more deformation / higher load is acceptable. On the other hand, running a tire designed for use on a kids' bike at 35kph under maximum load for extended periods of time may not be such a good idea. In any case, the Kenda "high durability" tire doesn't look like it's designed for a kids' bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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