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KS 16 - B Not Working


Rob Valley
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Good evening everyone,

long time reader, first post,

The following situation occurred suddenly this evening, please read and share your 2 cents.

Was out on a evening ride, when i stopped to have a piss,  the sun had just gone down... I then returned to my KS that was leaning against a park bench..

i reach for my unicycle, and immediately notice it is not balancing anymore, i try lifting it, nothing... then i remember a similiar case and i predict i will not be able to shut it of, i try, and yes, the euc will not shut off, i wait one minute and try to connect with my phone, it connects but no information is available, its like the app is -empty-

i continue to try to shut it off, after a few tries it gives a long beep and shuts off.

now of course i am feeling optimistic, so i go ahead and turn it on again, only to observe the following: 

Some more info: battery level was at 62% at time of incident. Total distance about 1300 km, we have suffered some minor crashes along this way, we've had a broken fuse about 2 months ago, nothing seemed to be out of order before the defect, sound and tingling in the toes felt good.

Any ideas what i could try?

Edited by RobValley
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@RobValley, welcome to the forum and my apologies for editing your post - I just embedded your YouTube video to make it easier to view.

what you are describing sounds to be exactly what is being discussed below, including the 4 red LED's. In particular note how Flora describes it happening.

Have a read of that thread and see if it is any help or perhaps IM Flora?

Edited by Keith
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Just now, Keith said:

Have a read of that thread and see if it is any help or perhaps IM Flora?

Hey Keith and thanks for fixing the video.

 

Yes i have read the thread and im pretty sure it is unrelated, since mine keeps on pulling the  wheel back and forth, it seems something is broken, i am guessing it is the feared broken Hall sensor situation

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11 hours ago, RobValley said:

Hey Keith and thanks for fixing the video.

 

Yes i have read the thread and im pretty sure it is unrelated, since mine keeps on pulling the  wheel back and forth, it seems something is broken, i am guessing it is the feared broken Hall sensor situation

Yes, it is NOT the same fault...(my guess)...as yours is flipping out as good to see in the video!

I would guess here you have a hall sensor or board problem, not the "serial number forget" situation.

I am Sorry, but you should contact your seller or a qualified repair station for EUC's.

 

You can get help definily from 1radwerkstatt.de, if your seller is not able to or you are out of warranty!

 

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On 25.8.2017 at 10:06 PM, RobValley said:

Good evening everyone,

long time reader, first post,

The following situation occurred suddenly this evening, please read and share your 2 cents.

Was out on a evening ride, when i stopped to have a piss,  the sun had just gone down... I then returned to my KS that was leaning against a park bench..

i reach for my unicycle, and immediately notice it is not balancing anymore, i try lifting it, nothing... then i remember a similiar case and i predict i will not be able to shut it of, i try, and yes, the euc will not shut off, i wait one minute and try to connect with my phone, it connects but no information is available, its like the app is -empty-

i continue to try to shut it off, after a few tries it gives a long beep and shuts off.

now of course i am feeling optimistic, so i go ahead and turn it on again, only to observe the following: 

Some more info: battery level was at 62% at time of incident. Total distance about 1300 km, we have suffered some minor crashes along this way, we've had a broken fuse about 2 months ago, nothing seemed to be out of order before the defect, sound and tingling in the toes felt good.

Any ideas what i could try?

 @RobValley I had the same problem, described in this other thread:

On 24.8.2016 at 7:32 PM, RenaissanceMan said:

(*) Km measured by Kingsong :-)

This was my last ride for a while: starting with the odometer reading 1003 km, real distance of today's ride 15km (Kingsong app shows 19km), flat terrain, asphalt and gravel paths with the occasional bump and a few short steep climbs at bridges crossing over the highway, firmware 1.18B, battery level starting at 80%, 63V  finishing at 63%, 60V (idling), pedal setting player's mode, max speed 22km/h, riding time 1:30h, KS temperature starting from 34°C and finishing at 46°C, rider's weight 85kg. I used runtastic Pro and WheelLog 1.4.2 to record the ride as well as snapshots from the latest Kingsong android app.

Luckily, everything went well during the ride. When I finally sat down at a bench at my destination as usual I lay the wheel down on one side and started checking the recordings on the smartphone. The wheel beeped 5 times and went silent, as usual. Then I noticed that the Wheellog recording had already stopped which normally it does not until I press the logging icon. When I'd finished taking screenshots I reached for the power on/off button to switch off the KS16. But it did not. One long push at the button and the green LEDs indicating battery level just didn't stop glowing. Another long push at the button, nothing changed, the green LEDs were still glowing. It just would not switch off. After another few unsuccessful attempts I decided to pull the wheel in its limp condition to the car, trolley bar extended. And there, while pulling the limp KS16, it revived suddenly and jumped ahead and back, really frightening and beeping all the time. Then I tried the switch off button again and this time it worked. The wheel went limp (no balancing), the beeping stopped and the LED lights went off.

After some experimenting I can now reproduce the following behaviour. When the wheel is laying on one side and I turn it on, it starts beeping and on each side four read LEDs go on (see the picture). When I push the on/off button again, it goes silent and the LEDs go off, the wheel appears to be powered off.

When I turn the wheel on in an upright position, it starts spinning with great power either forwards or backwards and then suddenly changes direction until I turn it off (see the movie).

I talked to Scooterhelden in Berlin and their first guess was a defect gyro but I'll have to sent it in for them to take a closer look. Too bad, just as the summer started coming back :-(

I learned euc riding on this KS16 so it certainly had taken a few crashes but not within the last month or so. This was the first and only defect so far. Luckily, it showed up only after the ride and not during ... Being a defensive rider and also getting better over time the last crash was at least one month ago. Of course, it could be that a crash some long time ago had damaged some component that finally broke down today but that's speculation. Let's see what the autopsy will uncover.

S2620016-s.jpg

 

 

 

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On 25/08/2017 at 9:22 PM, RobValley said:

Yes i have read the thread and im pretty sure it is unrelated, since mine keeps on pulling the  wheel back and forth, it seems something is broken, i am guessing it is the feared broken Hall sensor situation

The Thing is that a broken Hall sensor wouldn't stop the app working. @RenaissanceMan Looks to be spot on, his problem seems to match yours exactly and did include the loss of the serial number.

His dealer fixed it by reloading the firmware and it worked fine afterwards.

As well as referring this back to your dealer if possible I think it is worth discussing with @Flora Yuan as I said earlier as clearly there is a mechanism on the KS-16B that can cause a reset and loss of serial number as Flora stated the factory were accidentally doing it.

I think all KS-16 users need to understand what that mechanism is in order to ensure they don't brick their wheels as well. Also whether or not this is something the user can put right or has to go back to a service centre to put right.

Edited by Keith
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7 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@RenaissanceMan

As your problem was from last year.....what was the outcome? I am sure thats most interesting for @RobValley :-)

@KingSong69 : answer is in that thread:

On 8.9.2016 at 0:29 AM, RenaissanceMan said:

My KS16 is back!  :-) The first careful test today on a deserted schoolyard went fine. Scooterhelden said they had not seen such problem ever before and apparently neither had Kingsong. Their first guess was, as I wrote earlier, a defect gyro. But Scooterhelden were puzzled by the reproducible behavior that I had described above. They also found that my KS16 was missing its device ID. So they spent quite some time in trying to reset or update the firmware of my misbehaving KS16 and eventually succeeded. That seemed to be all that was necessary to get my KS16 up and running again. No hardware was exchanged or repaired. The test ride by Scooterhelden was reportedly uneventful. At the time of breakdown I was running firmware version 1.18B, updated by myself a few months ago from version 1.13B. Now my KS16 has firmware version 1.22.

As an EUC novice I was worried whether after a break of 1 1/2 weeks I would be still able to ride as before. I therefore was surprised to see that my riding even seemed to have improved. Right from the start I was able to do stable slow riding, mini slalom and confident take-off and full stop as well as accelerating and breaking; although I did not go over 15 km/h as a precaution during that first test.

I had the impression that doing mini slalom was much easier than before. In my opinion, there is now more pedal softening on tight turns than there was before with firmware version 1.18B (both in "Player's Mode"). Small bumps are easily crossed, maybe even easier than before where I might have had to apply more force to keep on rolling. Scooterhelden said in their opinion firmware version 1.22 was a significant improvement with respect to riding stability.

As to the original cause of the breakdown of my KS16 there are so far only guesses. Scooterhelden suggest that some firmware / software failure might have materialized.

I remember in the first note of this thread I wrote I found the bluetooth connection from the wheel to JumpMaster's WheelLog app had unexpectedly disconnected when I checked it at the end of the ride. It turned out that the logging function of WheelLog had nevertheless captured almost the entire ride up to the final stop but it seemed to have disconnected all by itself at the end of the ride (could also have been an inadvertent clumsy click on the logging icon).

Now, I imagine there could be a situation where two apps (in this case Kingsong and WheelLog) talking at the same time to the same wheel might be causing a deadlock or other undefined state that effectively cripples the wheel.

Has anyone knowledge or experience of such malfunction?

 

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@RobValley

Like Keith said...contact Flora...or your seller...in the case that your seller Or KS- Flora dont help you for whatever reason:

...i might be able to, also! But that should be the last option available! Not that i dont want to help....but for warranty and so on...you should go over official resources first!

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in this case:

- customer has kill bluetooth connection when upload new firmware to Wheel

- in next new try to upload firmware...the EUC missing information what firmware is needed and display all firmware options in app...

- and now you have KS16A KS16B and KS16C but only one is the correct

- with not the correct one you have issue same as you see in video / motor rotation is different between firmware A, B or C

 

you can send wheel to us and we change to the correct one

 

I hope i can help!

Greetings

1RadWerkstatt

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8 minutes ago, 1RadWerkstatt said:

in this case:

- customer has kill bluetooth connection when upload new firmware to Wheel

Hy Chris,

both people say, that they just have left the wheel with power On leaning to a wall...and after returning it was in this state...

None of the two was trying to make an firmware update???

Edited by KingSong69
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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

both people say, that they just have left the wheel with power On leaning to a wall...and after returning it was in this state...

None of the two was trying to make an firmware update???

@1RadWerkstatt, thank you for your offer of support, if @RobValleydoesn't know of you then he can be assured that many good things about your company (and particularly your battery upgrades ) are said on this forum.

As @KingSong69 has said, neither of these two people were doing anything other than using their wheels and in the post I referred to (second post from top)  @Flora Yuan  stated that some wheels left the factory without serial numbers due to being powered down too quickly after a reset, so there does appear to be a mechanism in the firmware that can be accidentally triggered in some way?

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5 minutes ago, Keith said:

ora Yuan  stated that some wheels left the factory without serial numbers due to being powered down too quickly after a reset, so there does appear to be a mechanism in the firmware that can be accidentally triggered in some way?

I guess what Flora means, is: In the factory they are using a special software to "reset" the wheel after testing...(km to zero, etc)....and then it happens...(and that was a case with some 16s wheels)

It should not be possible on normal circumstances! But as we see....somehow it happens nonetheless:-(

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Hi @RobValley,

Sorry reply so late.

You problem is missing series number, when you add the number with our engineer test app, problem will solved at once.

BTW, we will soon realease a new firmware version together with new App soon, with the new App you can upgrade the firmware to newest, this problem won't happen again.

Edited by Keith
Added Robs handle so he gets alert.
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4 hours ago, Flora Yuan said:

BTW, we will soon realease a new firmware version together with new App soon, with the new App you can upgrade the firmware to newest, this problem won't happen again.

That's cool, Flora, thanks for that info.

But because I'm working at an IT company, I'm very cautious with the word "soon", when it describes the arrival of new software versions. :innocent1::D

Can you elaborate a little bit about if soon means days, weeks or months ? :)

Thanks, HtG

Edited by HermanTheGerman
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Thanks to everybody for comments and to @Flora Yuan and her team for helping me Reset the wheel.

After putting in the Serial number, and reinstalling the firmware, the last challenge for me was to locate the "reset settings" button, that was not visible on the android phone i was using due to the small screen size (and switching to landscape made the app crash)

But fortunately switching to smallest font size gave me few millimeters of the button and Violá! i was out the door zooming around again!

Lesson here is to always have a second wheel, 'couse man its boring to walk.

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On 2017/8/31 at 10:44 PM, HermanTheGerman said:

Can you elaborate a little bit about if soon means days, weeks or months ? :)

Hi Herman, sorry reply late, too busy for big orders recently.:)

"Soon" means not far away, but the date can't be confirmed. Now King Song new App is completed in English & Chinese version, now sending to each agent to check and give more suggestions to improve details. Then will release. With New App, most King Song unicycles can upgrade to the newest firmware version.

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1 minute ago, Flora Yuan said:

Hi Herman, sorry reply late, too busy for big orders recently.:)

"Soon" means not far away, but the date can't be confirmed. Now King Song new App is completed in English & Chinese version, now sending to each agent to check and give more suggestions to improve details. Then will release. With New App, most King Song unicycles can upgrade to the newest firmware version.

All that is very good (especially the big orders :)), and of course also the thorough testing of the App !

I really prefer to get it later and thoroughly tested, than to get it now with several bugs (I didn't like a Beta version I could get my hands on, but I'm sure this will become better).

Thanks for the info and your support !

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II have the same problem as RobValey's video shows. It happened when it was charging and I turned the power on. Then I think that my ks may need to recalibrate. So I turned the KS app on, connect via Bluetooth, press the calibration on the app, then the EUC become half dead. By "half dead" I mean that it does not move, make weak beeps when the power button is pushed, and power off when I release the power button. Frustrating....

 

 

Edited by EUCMania
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6 minutes ago, EUCMania said:

II have the same problem as RobValey's video shows. It happened when it was charging and I turned the power on. Then I think that my ks may need to recalibrate. So I turned the KS app on, connect via Bluetooth, press the calibration on the app, then the EUC become half dead. By "half dead" I mean that it does not move, make weak beeps when the power button is pushed, and power off when I release the power button. Frustrating....

 

 

Yeah, thats really not nice. The only good news:

At least it is fixable! Contact Flora or your seller...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I received the Engineer's Test App from Miss Yuan. I put in the serial number. But, my KS 16 still will not balance itself. After I turn the power on, it spins like crazy. So, I do a level calibration, via regular Kingsong App (Android). But I failed. This is what happened:

1. Turn the power on. Wheel spins madly.

2. After it stopped,  I connected the App. go to the Level Calibration.

3. Pressed the Level Calibration, heard 5 beeps. The App said that there should be long beep after that 5 short beeps. But there was no long beep.

4. I turned the power off, then on. The KS made a few weak short beeps, then long continuous beep. 

5. Wait for the long beep to finish. I tried these options: a) hold the power on for a long time after long beep starts; B) release power on button after long beep starts

6. After the long wait, turn the power off. Restart. The EUC still will not balance.

7. I send the video about this to Miss Yuan. She has not answered yet.

Please help.

See the video below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ISwkghzCnkVC1uZE9JdEhoQU0/view?usp=sharing 

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