Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 EUC Riding Dog sez I don't need no stinking PLEV regulations. Ima gonna ride where ever I wantz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Actually, the wheel is over a certain speed self stabilizing by the gyroscopic effect of the turning wheel. If it tips to the right, it will autocratically be turned into the fall.. Walter Lewin held a perfect lecture about that effect as well: I experienced this two times, both times I was overleaning while braking. The Wheel runs of until the ground gets to rough or something else is in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 pages of offtopic Thx mods. Though the title could need some more, this isn't really about PLEV. @ir_fuel I knew someone would bring up the KS18. Thought of it too. I'll weasel myself out of this by saying the weight on top is not significant enough In earnest, does the top weight of the KS18 make some practical differences that could be used for... something? @Hunka Hunka Burning Love Haven't you learnt to use the video instead? Much better with that song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 37 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Ok I guess you're right, if a wheel had a significant (but fixed) weight on the center top, it could use titlback to create imbalances and move forth and back (without the weight having to be movable relative to the wheel) just like tiltback for a real rider, in a way. But wheels still don't have this Well, actually all wheels that I know of have their COG above the axle, so technically speaking, the all have a significant weight on top of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Zens Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: What was the question again? Oh right, which anti-runaway measure would not be more hassle (and dangerous) than it's worth? Let me try this one: There are simple pressure sensors on each pedal (I'm thinking about a piezoelectric type here). It would be easy to detect the difference between a connected and working sensor not sensing any pressure, and a broken one (cable broken for example). Now the condition for auto-emergency-brake (like a train with an unresponsive driver) could be defined like this: Both sensors are working and report no/idle pressure for at least 5 seconds while the wheel moved at least 20 meters with constant ground contact. Sudden speed increase without the proper amount of power draw (free spinning wheel during air time) doesn't count towards the 20m limit and also resets the 5 second timer. Whatever the mechanism, it must be possible to turn it off via the app, I think. But it would be OK for me if the wheel is no longer street legal while the runaway protection is off, like it's not legal to drive a car without a fastened seat belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 5 seconds and 20 meters? Better have nothing at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: Well, actually all wheels that I know of have their COG above the axle, so technically speaking, the all have a significant weight on top of them... See here: 10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: I'll weasel myself out of this by saying the weight on top is not significant enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Dog Riding EUC! That made my day. TY! And, FYI, having regulations and them being (sensibly) not enforced, are 2 different things. Go ahead! Make all the regulations you want! Around where I live, every park, sidewalk, shopping center and most public areas you can think of are posted "No Motorized Vehicles, skateboards, etc". But I have had plenty of police officers see me, riding safely, wearing safety gear and they have not given me a second look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, Christoph Zens said: Let me try this one: There are simple pressure sensors on each pedal ... Good attempt Not sure if it would be easy to distinguish between a not-pressed and working and broken sensor. What also comes to mind is stuff (snow, mostly) on the pedals, I've had a layer of snow/ice on parts of my pedals already. What is the wheel supposed to do for any "opt in" method of detecting a rider? Tiltback when a sensor part breaks? Now you're stranded somewhere just because of some unrelated crap. What if you're riding up a mountain, standing on your toes? Suddenly the wheel switches off? Same for going down and heels. Any other foot position where your feet only touch small part of the pedal. Sensors everywhere? People trick riding on top of their wheels? Wheel cuts out suddenly? 5 seconds/20 meters: wheel has fallen over already or hit something, most likely. So pointless, most likely. "It must be possible to turn it off via the app" = "I don't trust the thing myself and would rather not have it". Why else would you want to turn it off if it might not be a problem? Can you really always predict when you want to switch it off? The cost and engineering effort would not be worth it, imho. Might be endangering the rider. Making regulation for this would be insane tbh... -- Doesn't the Uniwheel have some kind of leg detection? How does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: Around where I live, every park, sidewalk, shopping center and most public areas you can think of are posted "No Motorized Vehicles, skateboards, etc". But I have had plenty of police officers see me, riding safely, wearing safety gear and they have not given me a second look. That's the difference between wording and what they actually try to achieve. It's easier to write the above on a sign whilst the actual purpose is: - don't drive scooters/motorcycles/mopeds here - don't use your skateboard for doing all kinds of tricks, potentially hurting someone, and for abusing every ledge in the vicinity to try slides and grinds (preferably by waxing the ledge first). Pretty sure they wouldn't/won't mind someone on a skateboard just passing by as a means of transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I agree that in "principle" a runaway unicycle is a problem. But I disagree that a Unicycle that weighs about as much as a standart bicycle is as much of a problem as say a runaway selfdriving car. So we might be talking about a situation that might not be much of a problem and that will not be as castastrophic as basicly any other motorised vehicle simply because all other vehicles will be so much more heavy than a runaway unicycle ... Well intentioned over regulation can be as dangerous/harmfull as no regulation at all ... (Damn the precautionary principle!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: Good attempt Not sure if it would be easy to distinguish between a not-pressed and working and broken sensor. What also comes to mind is stuff (snow, mostly) on the pedals, I've had a layer of snow/ice on parts of my pedals already. Simple: make sure that the broken is the same as "there is nobody on". Plenty of systems already exist where the broken state equals the "fail" state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Roland said: I agree that in "principle" a runaway unicycle is a problem. But I disagree that a Unicycle that weighs about as much as a standart bicycle is as much of a problem as say a runaway selfdriving car. The difference is that a standard bicycle will fall at a certain point. A euc can be 20kg of weight running at you at 25 km/h. Do the maths. That's quite a collision if you don't see that coming or if it hits a 4 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Solution is simple: urban environments, public roads? Use a tether. Just leave it home if you want to do crazy stuff or go offroading (and fear hurting yourself when having this thing attached to you). When driving sensibly in an urban setting it should never be an issue imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, ir_fuel said: Simple: make sure that the broken is the same as "there is nobody on". Plenty of systems already exist where the broken state equals the "fail" state. That's what I meant by "opt-in". You said it better. 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: What is the wheel supposed to do for any "opt in" method of detecting a rider? Tiltback when a sensor part breaks? Now you're stranded somewhere just because of some unrelated crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Didn't understand it Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Roland said: I agree that in "principle" a runaway unicycle is a problem. But I disagree that a Unicycle that weighs about as much as a standart bicycle is as much of a problem as say a runaway selfdriving car. So we might be talking about a situation that might not be much of a problem and that will not be as castastrophic as basicly any other motorised vehicle simply because all other vehicles will be so much more heavy than a runaway unicycle ... Well intentioned over regulation can be as dangerous/harmfull as no regulation at all ... (Damn the precautionary principle!!!) I think that is a good point. Everyone should be more concerned about self driving vehicles, and I anticipate regulation (and news) focusing on those more. Who really care about these little EUC's anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 And that's always the problem with safety systems. They can fail too, and they (if they are decent) will always make sure that if they fail the device they are protecting fails too (makes perfect sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 There is always the possibility of a freak accident ... a statistical outlier. Just because we can imagine it does not mean it will happen. Also life is dangerous - even for children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just now, Circuitmage said: I think that is a good point. Everyone should be more concerned about self driving vehicles, and I anticipate regulation (and news) focusing on those more. Who really care about these little EUC's anyhow? With one big difference: there still aren't any self driving vehicles. And by that I mean a vehicle that can drive me from my house to my destination without any interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, ir_fuel said: With one big difference: there still aren't any self driving vehicles. And by that I mean a vehicle that can drive me from my house to my destination without any interaction. Tesla selfdriving is close enough to be dangerous. If you want to be extra carefull be carefull around a tesla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just now, Roland said: There is always the possibility of a freak accident ... a statistical outlier. Just because we can imagine it does not mean it will happen. Also life is dangerous - even for children. You are right. On the other hand, do you consider it normal that a company can build a euc that can go 60 km/h, doesn't need to have any certification / proof of reliability, that they could make it using plastic engine parts/axles that are too weak to stand up to those speeds and that someone gets killed because of this? "Sorry, Chinese low quality product. Better luck next time!" Just now, Roland said: Tesla selfdriving is close enough to be dangerous. If you want to be extra carefull be carefull around a tesla Honestly I am more afraid of a big part of drivers on the roads than of a self-driving Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Well, it depends on how you define "self driving". Some states are specifically adopting legislation now for self driving vehicles. And there are cities in the US that are allowing prototype vehicles to operate (for at least a year now). I have had the opportunity to sit in a car with automatic braking and collision avoidance, which are components of autonomous vehicles. And, there are cars on the market now that will park themselves. So, fully autonomous vehicles may not be for sale yet, but all indications are they will be here soon. And we can see the components coming together quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just now, Circuitmage said: And, there are cars on the market now that will park themselves. That's not very new. Even my BMW 1 series has this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: On the other hand, do you consider it normal that a company can build a euc that can go 60 km/h, doesn't need to have any certification / proof of reliability, that they could make it using plastic engine parts/axles that are too weak to stand up to those speeds and that someone gets killed because of this? I don't know, what certifications do road bike/racing bike tires need to have? Or mountain bike tires? Nothing more is required for mechanical EUC parts. I would assume there is a general "must be fit for the purpose" regulation somewhere. Also, although regulators often don't understand this, endangering the user (rider) and endangering others are two completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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