Riding on roads

[Stan Onymous]

I had always thought that side road foot traffic direction was a municipal decision based on insurance risks of a particular town or region. For instance it may be smarter in windy rural areas to face traffic so you can dodge traffic traveling in that lane better. Los Angeles has bike lanes on many streets and officers can write tickets to cars that come too close to cyclists. All vehicles have to give the cyclists 3' of a buffer zone. Also although the lanes are directional along with the flow of traffic, one can still travel in the bike lane in either direction in order to cross the street safely in either direction. I rarely see people jogging against traffic in Los Angeles. I do a lot on the east coast though.

As for traveling on the roads, it is safer so far than a bike as long as there are bike lanes and you are wearing proper protective gear. Everyone sees a floating person! Especially if your EUC has lights. In Los Angeles the average speed in rush hours traffic is barely 15 mph at the best of times. I get passed by busses and pass them when they stop. Sometimes I pass in the street, and sometimes on the sidewalks. It all depends on what is the safest manuver contingent on street conditions and pedestrians as well as how many passengers are waiting to get on the bus.

I have a rear view mirror so I can see what is coming up on me when I am traveling on side streets or alleys and I dont use earbuds or headphones so I can hear the dangers all around me. Even when I go on nature trails I am constantly being beaned by a stray bee or scarab or Junebug depending on the season. I am sure it is only a matter of time before I get stung. Dont even get me started on being impaled by a broken branch or falling off a cliff like that Segway VP a while back.

So yeah, the streets are a little dangerous, but nothing too scary if you are prepared and research the areas you want to travel in first. I am lucky to live in L.A. because the cyclists already did a lot of the heavy lifting as far as forcing in bike lanes and passing on the street knowledge on best cycle friendly routes. I agree though about your apprehension of roads without a shoulder or a bike lane or even a sidewalk, but dont fear the streets. EUC them.

[ir_fuel]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

@ir_fuel just curious if u would walk on the shoulder facing traffic, like ur suppose to in the states but nobody seems to know that?

If there is no sidewalk, yes.

 

[LanghamP]

I use google street view to recon new roads; if the speed limit is high, the road somewhat narrow, and there is no sidewalk then I avoid that road.

Look at it from the driver's viewpoint; here you are speeding along and then traffic slows down as the driver's ahead of you slow down in order to safely pass the bicyclist who is selfishly slowing everyone down. Wouldn't you want to, maybe, teach him a lesson? Maybe not kill him, but swerve a little, throw something at him, get right up on his tail and honk him? He's in your road, built specifically for cars, and auto insurance can pay for his injuries.

There's a good reason you never see bicyclists on most roads; they have all been killed, injured, or scared away by the cars. Go to any bicycle store and chances are they have these "danger" maps where dangerous roads are outlined in red.

[novazeus]

@LanghamP i've been on my harley and had idiot cars think they could share one lane with me. texting is the worse. worse than dui. u can spot a dui driver sometimes. doesn't pay to have expensive nice cars, like my t-boned red zo6 in 2013 by a texting 19 yr old girl driving uninsured ford pos.

[Steven D Wheeler]

I only ride on side streets.

I stay off of main busy roads with traffic.

I ride the Forest bike trails which are much safer.

IMHO Traffic on an EUC = Death * don't care how good you think you are it's the goof who don't see or respect you that'll do you in.

[RenaissanceMan]

On 24.8.2017 at 4:07 PM, LanghamP said:

I use google street view to recon new roads; if the speed limit is high, the road somewhat narrow, and there is no sidewalk then I avoid that road.

I prefer https://www.openandromaps.org/ together with Locus Free Map on Android  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus&hl=en (sorry, no IOS version).

The quality and details of these maps is better than any other map app I've seen and the app has all the bells and whistles (both free of charge).

[novazeus]

a few miles from me the news is memorializing this guy that was killed when another guy intentionally ran off the road and on to the bicycle path to run over this father and two children.

 

[RayRay]

16 hours ago, novazeus said:

a few miles from me the news is memorializing this guy that was killed when another guy intentionally ran off the road and on to the bicycle path to run over this father and two children. 

 

It's a very bike unfriendly town... Just beneath the surface, there's a ton of resentment for cyclists who "don't belong" in and around Tampa. I haven't been here long enough to explain the phenomenon, but I can feel it (and I don't feel safe).

I don't ride much because it only takes a slightly deranged person to run me down (and the city is full of highly deranged people). The more I get back into cycling, the less comfortable I feel in this neck-of-the-woods.

[novazeus]

yup, people think i’m kidding when i talk about how dangerous tampa is and it’s no where as bad as miami or orlando as far as that goes.

being born here and watching the influx of people and how it’s changed, is pretty sad. i’m sure the story is the same almost everywhere, especially florida.

u just can’t think, it won’t happen to me, and always be aware of ur surroundings and be on guard.

[mezzanine]

I've lived in Tampa and agree the driving culture is different than what I'm used to here in Canada.  And it's not as though I think Canada is some great place to be on the road as a cyclist/EUC, either.  

I had a cyclist get angry at me the other morning because he turned from a side street into the bike lane without even looking.  I can't even imagine making a turn on a bike or EUC without looking for oncoming traffic, even if it's just another bike.  It's an exercise in self-discipline for me to stay calm in those situations.  

I've said it before, but if I'd realized how crazy people are towards bikes/EUCs, I'm doubtful I'd have got one.  Watched a guy get hit on an e-bike last weekend.  

There's an accident on my street almost weekly, right in front of my building.  I just hear the sound of crushing metal.  

[novazeus]

when i rode street motorcycles, i assumed every cager on the road was intentionally trying to kill me.

once humans get behind the wheel of a vehicle, their rudeness increases exponentially. kinda like people on the internet getting behind a keyboard. they would never do what they do there, face to face, probably because they are afraid they’d get their ass kicked.

too much road rage and rudeness everywhere. a few years ago this great big young football player punk snatched some 40 something guy out of his vehicle and started pounding on him. the older guy pulled a glock out of his waistband and stopped it by depositing a little lead between his eyes.

no, it wasn’t me.

[mezzanine]

Yeah, I realized fairly early into my EUC driving career that I needed to change my perspective so that I assumed everyone on the road was actively trying to hit me.  I'm still not there yet, though.  I still react to people doing dumb/illegal stuff as though they should know better.  

I'd never claim to be a perfect driver, but I don't do 1/5 of the stuff I see people do all the time now that I'm more exposed on the wheel.  I think that's why I was so surprised when I started riding.  I wasn't as vulnerable to it being in a car and therefore it would pass under my attention.  

We don't talk enough about how long it takes to learn how to adjust all the unwritten experiential things you need to know when you start riding.  You can learn the basic riding skills fairly quickly, but depending on your background, there is a whole other set of skills you need to learn that you can't rush through.  

There's a lot of wisdom in how you've approached learning to ride, novazeus.  You clearly weren't ignorant about the danger of road riding like I was.  Probably have saved yourself at least one serious crash doing it your way.    

[novazeus]

euc’s are especially vulnerable. our brains are wired in such a way, that when something that’s not common on the highway/road system, our brain doesn’t recognize it. cars and trucks are normal, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians, not so much. it’s not what our brain is looking for.

can u imagine a driver that just ran over a person on a euc, telling the cop, “i didn’t see him”, the cop would probably be sympathetic.

somebody riding on a euc, to a person that had never seen one, which is about 99.99% of the planet, just doesn’t register. 

after u have done just about every stupid thing imaginable, i consider myself fortunate to have survived and finally have a little wisdom.

[WARPed1701D]

Tampa/St. Pete has some of the worst drivers I have ever witnessed in my entire life (my American wife agrees). Anywhere west of or near 275 or west the Casino on I4 is like the wild bloody west. If I've been out of town for a few days I know when I'm close to home after the first person has tried to run me off the road. 

[mezzanine]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

euc’s are especially vulnerable. our brains are wired in such a way, that when something that’s not common on the highway/road system, our brain doesn’t recognize it. cars and trucks are normal, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians, not so much. it’s not what our brain is looking for.

can u imagine a driver that just ran over a person on a euc, telling the cop, “i didn’t see him”, the cop would probably be sympathetic.

somebody riding on a euc, to a person that had never seen one, which is about 99.99% of the planet, just doesn’t register. 

after u have done just about every stupid thing imaginable, i consider myself fortunate to have survived and finally have a little wisdom.

Your comment about how a driver could tell a cop he didn't see an EUC and have the cop be sympathetic gives me chills.  I actually got hit by a city bus (not bad) and the cop claimed it didn't happen (knowing full well it did).  Not exactly confidence-inspiring.  

Cars often slow down to almost a complete stop when I'm approaching an intersection and they've got right of way with no stop sign.  It bugs me because I end up having to come to a complete stop myself, which means dismounting instead of just slowing down.    

[novazeus]

i rode my motorcycles almost exclusively 2006-2010, but i wasn’t commuting on them. i could pick and choose when i rode which was usually leaving the house at 1030 pm to go hit the bars. very little traffic between 1030 and 3am, just the occaisional drunk. 

commuting in rush hour traffic, i would have never done. it wouldn’t have been fun, starting and stopping, and being sandwiched with all those cars and trucks would be extremely dangerous. my harley has a 110 cu inch motor that just can’t sit and idle in a situation of stop and go traffic like on an interstate when an accident occurs in front of u.

euc riders using them to commute, God bless them and protect them because with the rider trying to be on time, the cagers trying to do the same, not a good mix. 

as active as the development is growing around me, i couldn’t even leave the ranch on a wheel and be on safe roads. on one side, 14 lanes of interstate, 6 lanes of highway to the north, 2 lanes 55mph highway to the south, and my little side road which is 30 mph that people regularly go 50+ and no sidewalks or multiuse paths. there’s a neighborhood next door with supposedly slow subdivision curly roads that it would just take one pickup truck going too fast around a curve to take u out. 

anytime we use public roads, sidewalks or multiuse paths, we put our lives in the hands of the other drivers on the road, and being so slow on a euc and vulnerable, doesn’t make the risk worth it for me.

i like my idea of building elevated multiuse paths for commuting. gotta be cheaper than roads or light rail.

 

 

 

 

[novazeus]

@WARPed1701D and @RayRay can attest to thisif they watch the local news  because they live in the tampa bay area.

lately since cancelling directv because tv sucks anyway, i’ve been watching the local news.

OMG, makes me never want to leave the ranch.

just saw where there was road rage in polk county, one dead pick up driver was impaled on a fence, car driver ok.

everyday more insane shit humans are doing. i swear it’s worse now than ten years ago. 

[RayRay]

32 minutes ago, novazeus said:

road rage in polk county, one dead pick up driver was impaled on a fence, car driver ok.

An Acura is no match for a Dodge Ram Pickup in a vehicle collision. They were reported to have been trying to cut each other off (which is just insane). Somehow, the smaller vehicle driver survived, but will have a lot to answer for if the initial reports were true. Senseless in the extreme, no matter how you look at it...

[novazeus]

and another guy a couple days ago running up on the median to run over a bicyclist on purpose? wtf?

[WARPed1701D]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

@WARPed1701D and @RayRay can attest to thisif they watch the local news  because they live in the tampa bay area.

lately since cancelling directv because tv sucks anyway, i’ve been watching the local news.

OMG, makes me never want to leave the ranch.

just saw where there was road rage in polk county, one dead pick up driver was impaled on a fence, car driver ok.

everyday more insane shit humans are doing. i swear it’s worse now than ten years ago. 

I got rid of TV altogether and avoid local news sites like BN9 and Tampa Bay Times like the plague. The crazy shit I hear coming out of the bay area is utterly depressing and as you mention it makes you not want to go outside. I can't afford to move right now (back to England, or just elsewhere in the US) but when I can I will be out of here. I've never known a place like it and neither has my American wife who is equally or more so dismayed than me. 

Stay close to the ranch until you sell and the get a yourself and Bob as far away as you can. 

[novazeus]

11 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I got rid of TV altogether and avoid local news sites like BN9 and Tampa Bay Times like the plague. The crazy shit I hear coming out of the bay area is utterly depressing and as you mention it makes you not want to go outside. I can't afford to move right now (back to England, or just elsewhere in the US) but when I can I will be out of here. I've never known a place like it and neither has my American wife who is equally or more so dismayed than me. 

Stay close to the ranch until you sell and the get a yourself and Bob as far away as you can. 

yeah i know, it’s a shame. more people, more bad apples that ruin it for everybody. 

i’m talking to a developer now and i’m debating letting it all go including my personal 18 acre homesite. 

Bob would love a mountainous ranch in north carolina but i want a place south with water access for the winter. isolation is the objective.

the news is depressing but i feel like i have to know so i don’t delude myself in thinking florida is disneyworld like most visitors and new residents think.

only thing that keeps me here is this land, which if i gotta be here, being in the middle of 325 acres isn’t that bad. 

Bob and i go to walmart curbside grocery delivery once a week, and that’s the only time we leave. everything else i get delivered. i’ll put waay more miles on my wheels than i will my new vw touareg. sucks that my auto insurance is gonna work out to about $2 per mile.

[RayRay]

I'm out for a leisurely bike ride on a Sunday afternoon... Suddenly, I hear a car 'gun it' right behind me. (This happens to me all the time along the same residential stretch of road.) Trucks or cars with big engines are always trying to scare me off the road. Most of the time, I get out of the way and continue riding on the sidewalk (roads in my neighborhood rarely have curbs). However, it's not like the car (or truck) can't go around me; they just don't like sharing the road with anybody.

Note: It's worse at night or on weekends because 'all bets are off' when no kids are present; (yes, it's a school zone). ?

[novazeus]

i used to inline skate the multiuse paths in ft myers with my very hot 24 year old gf and i always wore my fanny pack with my model 27 glock with spare magazines. 

florida is full of dumb ass rednecks and other undesirables.

[LanghamP]

All EUC and bicycle trips come down to avoiding drivers because nothing is more dangerous than a 3000-6000 vehicle ramming you. Avoid being around the threat; this is why all the talk about wearing a helmet is stupid...helmets just don't help much when you get hit, and often not wearing a helmet encourages drivers to give you a bit more space.

Presumably not wearing a helmet, wearing a giant USA flag, and carrying a baby would give you the most respect from drivers. Assuming, of course, they saw you instead of looking down at their smartphone.

I've actually taken to wearing a giant Go USA flag on my bicycle jersey (printed on the jersey if that makes sense). This helps a lot!

Interestingly, SUV seem more responsible to pedestrian deaths than other factors (I would have guessed increased cell phone use).

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451/fatal-pedestrian-crashes-increasingly-involve-suvs-study-finds

Children and old people get killed the most when crossing the street because they are usually looking down. And of course drunk people crossing the street in the wrong place (jaywalking); to be fair to jaywalkers it can take an insanely long time to walk to the nearest crosswalk, or wait for lights when crossing to the opposite diagonal.

 

[Stan Onymous]

I love NPR, but they are the WORST for statistics.

There is a rise in SUV crashes because there is a rise in SUV sales and registered SUVs on the road due to lower gas prices over the last ten years. Gas prices are on the rise now, so stay tuned for a story on dropping numbers of SUVs involved in bicycle injuries in the next couple of years.

That said, I am dragging out my Abbie Hoffman “Steal this Book” American Flag button down shirt that got censored on Merv Griffin for being an insult to the flag. Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha how the social morrays have changed.