Noob questions about cutouts and other stuff

[yogurtbink]

After having used an electric skateboard around town (mainly for transportation) for the past couple of months I realized that enough of the roads around here are a hair too crappy for said skateboard — the board can take it, but I find the ride too rough. 

Now I'm thinking about switching from the skateboard to a KS16S (or a onewheel+, but that's another story), but having watched a crapton of EUC youtube videos and having browsed thru that "If you fell off EUC and got injured in the last few years, how are you all doing now?" thread, I had a few questions about cutouts:

1. How common are cutouts? As in are cutouts one of those things that aren't so much a "if you have one" thing as a "when you have one" thing?

2. From what I've seen and read I get that the beefier the EUC, the lower the risk of cutouts, and the closer you hang out at the max speed of your EUC, the higher the risk of cutouts, but what are some other things that raise or lower the risk of cutouts?

3. If I'm around 175lbs (80kg) and I don't plan to go much faster than, say, a bicycle that's cruising around (that's about as fast as I care to go on the electric skateboard), are cutouts something I should worry about if I'm looking at a KS16S?

And unrelated to cutouts, I have two other noob EUC questions:

1. If I'm buying in the US, is ewheels.com the way to go? Or are there other sites I should also be looking at?

2. Is carrying grocery bags in your hands while riding an EUC a bad idea, balance-wise?. What about shifting the bags around like you might do if you were walking around with heavy bags and your hands were getting tired?

3. The inmotion V8 was the EUC I was actually interested in (because in addition to the 16" wheel and extendable handle in the KS16S, the V8 also had a kill switch for lifting it) but it sounds like ewheels.com is not going to carry it anymore, and I also got the impression that ewheels was the only official distributor of the V8 in the US. Are there other legit outlets that will now carry the V8 in the US?

[US69]

Just a short answer, because of time missing.. first: welcome! :-)

Second: unpredicted cutouts are very rare, most its the driver going to a speed that his EUC can not handle anymore...

The "S" Series from KS ....until today i have not heard of One unpredicted cutout, and also the second option, going over a speed that the wheel can not handle, is not possible, as Kingsong will not let you go that far...it never lets you in the near of its cutout speed (can wheel with 45-50kmh...but 35kmh is max!)

Its not "the beefier" = the safer....it goes with things like -bigger batterie -better board - better cables..(and firmware) what makes a wheel safe...again: Ks16s is a good choice, and yes: ewheels.com is known for good service and is highly reputated.

And weariing grocery bags once you  can ride good...is no problem...

 

Puuh...now time is gone ;-)

[Adel]

53 minutes ago, yogurtbink said:

 

1. If I'm buying in the US, is ewheels.com the way to go? Or are there other sites I should also be looking at?

3. The inmotion V8 was the EUC I was actually interested in (because in addition to the 16" wheel and extendable handle in the KS16S, the V8 also had a kill switch for lifting it) but it sounds like ewheels.com is not going to carry it anymore, and I also got the impression that ewheels was the only official distributor of the V8 in the US. Are there other legit outlets that will now carry the V8 in the US?

Buying from ewheels is the way to go if you want great support, I purchased my last 2 wheels from them.

As far as V8, go with KS16S instead, much better wheel for both power and range.

 

[Keith]

@yogurtbink I would second everything that @KingSong69 has said.

With only one wheel there is ALWAYS a chance of something failing in just the same way as there is ALWAYS a chance of a car mounting the sidewalk and hitting you - I.e. it might never happen but it is a good idea to be prepared for it. With a good quality wheel (like any of the ones that ewheels sell for example)  ridden within its (and your) limits, and the same sensible safety precautions I'm sure you use whilst skateboarding there really isn't any reason to be concerned - indeed I would go as far as to say that I think you are more likely to have an accident on a powered skateboard than an EUC any day.

By the way, high speed doesn't usually result in cut- outs. What can happen is that the torque available to balance you reduces the faster you are going so a sudden pothole or further forward lean can be too much for the motor to correct and the wheel fails to hold the rider up. This is what I mean by staying within limits.

I, personally, and at 61 years old would not be in the slightest bit worried about a KS-16S failing on me.

As for your other questions: there is a where to buy thread you can find on the Forum home page. @Jason McNeil of https://www.ewheels.com/ is a very active (and proactive) member of this forum who has never had a bad word said about him by any of his customers here, ( there is just one other EUC seller who regularly has a go at him - and, when you think about it that is even higher praise ?)

I regularly carry shopping, or takeaways on my wheel. Having your hands free is a real bonus in that regards and changing hands whilst riding shouldn't need trick cyclist skills to do! You can always use a rucksack if you prefer.

I love the V8 and Jason has worked hard with Inmotion to improve their EUCs, unfortunately that have tied in with Solowheel in the US now and will be sold as a Solowheel Glide at, I hear, something like a 50% increase in price. That is a price that makes it a very less desirable wheel - but if you want one you will be able to get it from a Solowheel stockist - the price increase makes the KS-16 a much better bet in my opinion. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Hi there. So many new riders lately!

KS16S might very well be the safest wheel there is - powerful motor (= big safety margins, you won't be able to overlean it or fail on a bump), conservative alarms (= big safety margins, you won't be able to overspeed it), good electronics...

2 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

2. Is carrying grocery bags in your hands while riding an EUC a bad idea, balance-wise?. What about shifting the bags around like you might do if you were walking around with heavy bags and your hands were getting tired?

Not a problem.

Shifting bags between hands might need a quick stop, but as this is instant and requires no effort...

BUT: I have made the experience that occupying your hands in any way (even just holding something small like a phone in one hand, not even using it, just holding) will delay/stop your hands from catching a possible fall (let's say you miss a pothole in your way). It's a reflex thing where you brain does not want to let something fall out of your hands/drop something, but hold on to it instead. Ideally, your hands should always be completely free when riding.

See this post, it has some merit!

(I never fell, just caught myself and was shocked how differently my hands reacted when holding something and how much worse that would have been if I had fallen.)

[LanghamP]

There's really two types of EUC riders although there's plenty of overlap.

--The enthusiast EUC who goes faster than 12.5 mph and rides for fun and danger, danger being part of the fun.

--The pedantic EUC rider who rides to get somewhere faster than walking but much slower than bicycling. Knows a lot about EUC's and all their little details but isn't a very good or fast rider. I'm firmly in this category. Poseur and proud of it.

What I mean to say, cutouts can and will happen if you're pushing the wheel up past what it is designed to deal with, in addition to various wobbles and get offs that arise from too much speed in sketchy terrain.

However, if you're like me and use the wheel for fairly slow sub 12.5 mph commuting, grocery shopping, and sight-seeing...then you're probably not going to get hurt even if you drop into a pothole, or off a curb, or into a runner, or a tree branch, roadkills, really anything that isn't a car. You will probably be unable to overpower a KS16S even if you weight 200 pounds and are carrying your girlfriend and two beer kegs.

About the fastest I can run is 6 mph over 30-60 minutes; if you keep your EUC to this speed, well, you'd look like a dork but you absolutely could not hurt yourself. You'd get to places far faster than walking at that speed yet would still be safe (except for cars).

[steve454]

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/cart  @yogurtbink I know you prefer a US dealer, but speedyfeet carries the V8 for 995 English pounds, you might look in to it.  Shipping might be a little high, though.  Some people on this forum have bought from him, that live in California.

Sorry, this link goes to cart, just click on the top of the page, all unicycles.

[yogurtbink]

Hey all, thanks for your replies — they were super helpful! That whole cutout thing was a pretty big concern of mine, but it sounds like for the type of riding I'm planning on doing (i.e., carrying groceries and whatnot at around 10–15mph), an EUC, and more specifically, the KS16S, is probably the way for me to go.

To be honest, since I've been skateboarding for a couple of decades, what I *want* is the onewheel+, but the combination of its short range, lack of swappable battery, and having to pick it up and carry it if I'm not riding it is a deal killer. If just one of those drawbacks were eliminated I'd probably get one, but all three combined keeps me from pulling the trigger on the onewheel+.

But, yeah, hopefully in about a month I'll get that KS16S and start riding! Thanks again, everyone!

[WARPed1701D]

5 hours ago, steve454 said:

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/cart  @yogurtbink I know you prefer a US dealer, but speedyfeet carries the V8 for 995 English pounds, you might look in to it.  Shipping might be a little high, though.  Some people on this forum have bought from him, that live in California.

Sorry, this link goes to cart, just click on the top of the page, all unicycles.

You'd actually get it for 829 pounds as VAT isn't charged to foreign purchasers.

[yogurtbink]

But isn't there some sort of region lock or something on the V8 so you have to buy it from an authorized dealer in your country if you want to unlock the V8's full potential? I seem to  remember reading about that in a thread or two somewhere or seeing a video about it on youtube while researching EUCs.

[US69]

1 minute ago, yogurtbink said:

But isn't there some sort of region lock or something on the V8 so you have to buy it from an authorized dealer in your country if you want to unlock the V8's full potential? I seem to  remember reading about that in a thread or two somewhere or seeing a video about it on youtube while researching EUCs.

Nope..only chinese are eventually locked..buying in england is no prob!

But: before choosing a V8 (which is a good machine) think about that it only has a capcity of 480wh!

Means just about half as range as a Ks16s! 

[yogurtbink]

Yeah, I know the KS16S has better specs than the V8 — it's that kill switch when picking it up that keeps me going back to considering the V8.

[electricpen]

4 minutes ago, yogurtbink said:

Yeah, I know the KS16S has better specs than the V8 — it's that kill switch when picking it up that keeps me going back to considering the V8.

I have a ninebot S2 and the KS-16s. The ninebot kills the motor any time the handle is pulled so I have some experience with both setups. While the cutoff is a handy feature, in reality, it rarely matters much. How often are you really going up stairs or picking it up for long periods of time? I pick up my KS all the time to go up curbs or small obstacles and the lack of cutoff doesn't matter much. I do have to turn it off when I am going to walk up a flight of stairs or something where it is off the ground for a longer time but that isn't that common.

The thing is most of the time you are going to prefer to use the trolly handle unless you need to go on stairs or steps. So most of the time the kill switch won't matter much. If you are constantly running up and down stairs then yeah kill switch would be awesome. But even on escalators, I use the trolly.

[yogurtbink]

Good to know about the kill switch not mattering that much because I was mainly thinking about it seeming nice for when I'd have to pick it up for curbs and stairs and whatnot.

For shopping and other places where I'd have to walk, I'd use the trolley handle, and a lack of a trolley handle, to me, is a deal killer as I now know that my e-skateboard's 17lbs (7.5kg) is annoying to lug around so the heavier weight of an EUC would be a major pain.

[Goodman]

You can also buy the V8 from aliexpress the following two stores both carry the international version so the app will work. For a little more the KS16S is a better overall wheel, more power more range, the trigger on the inmotion is good but I would take power and range over the trigger any day. Cut outs can happen on any wheel, there are plenty that has happened on the V8 as long as you understand the limits of each wheel you should be fine.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/The-latest-2016-16-inches-high-kingsong-automatic-balancing-electric-unicycle-800-w-motor-680wh-lithium/1748730_32648853085.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.2995e5c0vxWXIb

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/The-pre-sale-INMOTION-V8-electric-unicycle-one-wheel-scooter-life-50KM-480WH-Motor-800W-Max/1908673_32703849127.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.2995e5c0dp54lM

[electricpen]

3 minutes ago, yogurtbink said:

Good to know about the kill switch not mattering that much because I was mainly thinking about it seeming nice for when I'd have to pick it up for curbs and stairs and whatnot.

For shopping and other places where I'd have to walk, I'd use the trolley handle, and a lack of a trolley handle, to me, is a deal killer as I now know that my e-skateboard's 17lbs (7.5kg) is annoying to lug around so the heavier weight of an EUC would be a major pain.

The key is how easily you can control the weight as you pick it up. If you can barely lift it you may not have the control to keep it mostly vertical as you lift it and place it back down. If it isn't that heavy for you, you can probably lift it very quickly, keep it vertical, and place it down again. Even if the wheel is spinning slowly it will stop as soon as you set it down. Even if it is spinning quickly I have set it down and just held on to it tight until it stabilized. I have had it burn out and leave tire marks on the ground from how fast the tire was spinning when it touched down but I didn't lose control of the wheel. That only happened once though, most of the time the wheel isn't turning fast enough from the short lift to matter.

[HermanTheGerman]

I drive my KS16 since more than 3000 kilometers and never had a cut out while driving, also not on steep hills or offroad.

A month ago or so I had a cutout when starting, but this seemed to come with FW 1.25, and I know meanwhile exactly it happens only from time to time when I try to start with both feet on the wheel by holding a pole or something, and even then in very rare circumstances (it's difficult to reproduce it).

So I mostly start by mounting the 2nd foot without holding a pole or rail.

However, I want to mention that even if I hold something while stepping up, it only happens every 20th or 30th time, so that's negligible.

[johrhoj]

4 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said:

A month ago or so I had a cutout when starting, but this seemed to come with FW 1.25, and I know meanwhile exactly it happens only from time to time when I try to start with both feet on the wheel by holding a pole or something, and even then in very rare circumstances (it's difficult to reproduce it).

This seems to be a Kingsong glitch. I had it on my KS18. It is almost certain a firmware issue.

My remedy was to always have a little bit of speed before take off.

I could best reproduce this behaviour when starting on uneven undergrounds and uphill. 

[US69]

24 minutes ago, HermanTheGerman said:

I drive my KS16 since more than 3000 kilometers and never had a cut out while driving, also not on steep hills or offroad.

A month ago or so I had a cutout when starting, but this seemed to come with FW 1.25, and I know meanwhile exactly it happens only from time to time when I try to start with both feet on the wheel by holding a pole or something, and even then in very rare circumstances (it's difficult to reproduce it).

So I mostly start by mounting the 2nd foot without holding a pole or rail.

However, I want to mention that even if I hold something while stepping up, it only happens every 20th or 30th time, so that's negligible.

Hmmh, i did not have that anymore since i was on V1.22 or so....

It is (was) a known glitch, which can happen like you said when starting from a pole (and/or the wheel is just a few seconds powered ON)

Ýou can get it away if after powering ON always push the wheel a forth and back by Hand! Never Mount before...

 

btw.: Not just a Kingsong fault...i can reproduce this on my GW V3, also!

[Keith]

6 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

Good to know about the kill switch not mattering that much because I was mainly thinking about it seeming nice for when I'd have to pick it up for curbs and stairs and whatnot.

My, still less than 2 year old, KS-14C is surprisingly outdated already. It most certainly does not have a kill switch and the, quite crude, trolley was an optional extra.

The reason I bought a 14" wheel was to use it on public transport, etc. so portability and size (so it would fit under a bus seat and in my locker at work ) was a major requirement for me. At my age I get a free bus and train pass within the entire Greater London area so long range isn't as useful as low weight.

The trolley is massively useful when somewhere you cannot ride (supermarket, big railway station, etc.)

The lack of a kill switch is a complete non-issue. I simply grab the handle and my thumb is over the on/off button, one quick press and I lift the wheel, when I set it down another quick press has it live again. 

Having said that, had the Inmotion V5F+ been available when I bought my EUC I would have absolutely gone for that as my EUC is only 340Wh anyway so battery size wasn't a big issue to me. However the V8 does not compare as favourably against the KS-16 as the V5F+ does against the KS-14 (IMHO). Unfortunately the V5F+ was specific to Jason McNeil at ewheels (and Wheelgo in the UK) Solowheel don't apparently see any point in having the higher performance batteries so the Inmotion tie in with Solowheel has sounded the death nell of what was by far the best version of the V5.

[Paddylaz]

18 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

After having used an electric skateboard around town (mainly for transportation) for the past couple of months I realized that enough of the roads around here are a hair too crappy for said skateboard — the board can take it, but I find the ride too rough. 

Now I'm thinking about switching from the skateboard to a KS16S (or a onewheel+, but that's another story), but having watched a crapton of EUC youtube videos and having browsed thru that "If you fell off EUC and got injured in the last few years, how are you all doing now?" thread, I had a few questions about cutouts:

 

Obviously you're going to find nothing but love for eucs over any other transport-vehicle on THIS forum.

BUT.........Since you're a skateboarder, have you looked into the Gotway Moonwalk?

Unlike most electric skateboards it doesn't need a remote control and also has somewhat larger, off-road style wheels for multiple terrains.

Haven't read any reviews of it myself but Ian from Speedyfeet seemed to love it. He's got videos of it and a first-impressions on youtube. No idea if he is stocking them still/in future.

[Keith]

19 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

(Or a  onewheel+, but that's another story),

I love the idea of the Onewheel - and to me it is THE closest thing to a 'Back to the Future' Hoverboard that is out there. To me, those abominations that get called "Hoverboards" do not deserve the name at all. I am really surprised the Onewheel hasn't been more successful as surely any proficient skateboard rider would be way more at home on a Onewheel than any other personal electric transport - possibly even than the electric skateboard? Perhaps price, and the other reasons you gave above are the why this is so - but it is interesting that it hasn't even resulted in loads of cheap clones like the "Hoverboard" did?

Having said that, I spent a day snowboarding instead of my usual skiing and hated it. Even though it felt easy enough to ride I just couldn't get comfortable with having your feet fixed in one place and riding sideways - that has always discouraged me from the Onewheel despite doing much the same when I'm windsurfing.

Once you get over the feeling it is difficult to ride (it REALLY isn't), an EUC is, in my opinion, second only to the real Segway in terms of controllability and ability to ignore the terrain, it really is the closest thing to "I just think where I want to go and it just does it".  

I find even braking reaction is quicker on an EUC. Last time I was on collision course with a bicycle doing roughly the same speed as me it was astonishing how much shorter distance I stopped in even though he must have been nearly 40 years younger than me, I put it down to the automatic reaction to lean back when suddenly faced with an alarming sight - a bike coming at me around a blind bend - being quicker than going for the brake levers. Of course the fact that he was suddenly faced with something he had never seen before coming straight at him possibly slowed his reactions an awful lot ?

[JD Scott]

On 8/16/2017 at 11:11 AM, yogurtbink said:

After having used an electric skateboard around town (mainly for transportation) for the past couple of months I realized that enough of the roads around here are a hair too crappy for said skateboard — the board can take it, but I find the ride too rough. 

Now I'm thinking about switching from the skateboard to a KS16S (or a onewheel+, but that's another story), but having watched a crapton of EUC youtube videos and having browsed thru that "If you fell off EUC and got injured in the last few years, how are you all doing now?" thread, I had a few questions about cutouts:

1. How common are cutouts? As in are cutouts one of those things that aren't so much a "if you have one" thing as a "when you have one" thing?

2. From what I've seen and read I get that the beefier the EUC, the lower the risk of cutouts, and the closer you hang out at the max speed of your EUC, the higher the risk of cutouts, but what are some other things that raise or lower the risk of cutouts?

3. If I'm around 175lbs (80kg) and I don't plan to go much faster than, say, a bicycle that's cruising around (that's about as fast as I care to go on the electric skateboard), are cutouts something I should worry about if I'm looking at a KS16S?

And unrelated to cutouts, I have two other noob EUC questions:

1. If I'm buying in the US, is ewheels.com the way to go? Or are there other sites I should also be looking at?

2. Is carrying grocery bags in your hands while riding an EUC a bad idea, balance-wise?. What about shifting the bags around like you might do if you were walking around with heavy bags and your hands were getting tired?

3. The inmotion V8 was the EUC I was actually interested in (because in addition to the 16" wheel and extendable handle in the KS16S, the V8 also had a kill switch for lifting it) but it sounds like ewheels.com is not going to carry it anymore, and I also got the impression that ewheels was the only official distributor of the V8 in the US. Are there other legit outlets that will now carry the V8 in the US?

I am almost in the same boat. I have a Metroboard but sucked at riding it. I then became obsessed with the Onewheel+. Still less than secretly am but it's 1500 with the fender plus backordered 2 months. Then I saw an EUC on Inmotions website for the e-scooter I was checking out. But I bit the bullet and got an ACM v2 today. Waiting for it to ship. I'm sure I'll put it to the test at 6'3 220. 

What made you look at the KS16S?

[yogurtbink]

A few replies to comments people have left:

1. Thanks for the tips on places to get the V8! If the kill switch isn't that big of a deal I guess I'll concentrate on the KS16S.

2. Good to know about the KS16S cutout on startup if you're starting from a pole/rail/wall. I'll make sure to watch out for that if I end up getting one (which looks pretty likely).

3. I hadn't heard of the gotway moonwalk. There sure isn't a whole lot of info out there on it but I'm actually pretty intrigued as the large wheels and the shock-absorbing trucks look pretty key. I'm also a big fan of no remote to have to hold and the large wheels seem like a good pairing as you won't accidentally put a bunch of pressure up front when you hit a pebble or seed or something. I also dig the handle on the end that you can use to pick up and roll it behind you. It's hard finding any solid reviews on it other than that speedyfeet quick look at it tho'.

4. I get the impression that price and range are the two main reasons why the onewheel hasn't picked up more momentum. I'm thinking I might get one to use at a later date after getting an EUC because they just look so damn fun.

5. The KS16S is the main model I'm considering mainly because before that the inmotion V8 hit every single thing I was looking for in my first EUC (price, range, built-in trolley handle, kill switch, 16" wheel to soak up bad roads, good reviews, sufficient top speed), but according to the ewheels website, inmotion is renaming the model and jacking up the price by 50%, and ewheels suggested a KS16S instead. It's a little more expensive than the V8 and it doesn't have a killswitch (which people have said isn't a big deal), but it sounds like a solid EUC. The reason the gotway ACM wasn't on my radar was because the trolley handle wasn't built in.

[HermanTheGerman]

6 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

1.  ...  If the kill switch isn't that big of a deal I guess I'll concentrate on the KS16S.

I agree completely.  I never felt the need for a feature like that.

6 hours ago, yogurtbink said:

2. Good to know about the KS16S cutout on startup if you're starting from a pole/rail/wall. I'll make sure to watch out for that if I end up getting one (which looks pretty likely).

Don't overestimate that. I drove my KS16 from firmwares 1.19 to 1.25, and encountered that only under 1.25, under very rare circumstances, I just wanted to mention it.  Maybe on the KS16S you will never encounter it (mine is a KS16B).

My opinion is, that the KS16S is currently the by far best and reliable 16 inch wheel on the market, from safety point of view, configurability of riding mode and footpad angle, power, range and maxspeed it offers.