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14 hours ago, TheseusMinor said:

I reckon that the emergence of 3" wide tyres is the most prominent legacy of the One Z. The Rockwheel GT18 will have a 18"x3" tyre, foreallegedly.

Perhaps you meant ”would’ve had”? 😉

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19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Perhaps you meant ”would’ve had”? 😉

I AM A MAN OF FAITH! 😂

…until they publicly announce that they aren't making EUCs anymore.

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Does anyone know at what amp draw the Z10 will shut down?

Just trying to get a feel for what my alarm should be set at. Its 55A at the mo, only because from looking at past wheel log data it rarely goes above that, but I am probably not pushing the wheel nearly as hard as I could be given I am still learning and ride pretty conservatively as a result.

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3 hours ago, Planemo said:

Does anyone know at what amp draw the Z10 will shut down?

Just trying to get a feel for what my alarm should be set at. Its 55A at the mo, only because from looking at past wheel log data it rarely goes above that, but I am probably not pushing the wheel nearly as hard as I could be given I am still learning and ride pretty conservatively as a result.

The overlean limit is speed and battery charge dependend. And on how much safety margin one prefers.

Z10 logs are "hard to read" - the sent  data from the Z10 seems somehow preprocessed...

The voltage is changing too slow - they filtered/processed it somehow to correlate more to the real charge % and not the actual battery voltage.

The current sanple rate/report rate seems to go down/almost stop in high burden situations. Could be interference of the wheel/mobile phone combination i got some logs or some kind of safety measure to stop sending data if the "going gets tough"?

So current alarms could be useless if the data really comes late in case one would need it...

I can take a look at the limit graphs i estimated from some logs for the Z10 - some max current up to some speed. Best for your set tiltback speed.

But as said - Z10 data is the "worst" to interpret and its only very rough estimations. I don't/wouldn't trust the reported figures to much...

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Thanks Chriull, I didnt know that Z10 wheel log data could be seen as sporadic under certain circumstances. I would appreciate your thoughts if and when you get a closer look at the logs.

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1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Thanks Chriull, I didnt know that Z10 wheel log data could be seen as sporadic under certain circumstances. I would appreciate your thoughts if and when you get a closer look at the logs.

I found two old limit graphs, as my first trial with Z10 data - can unfortionately not really reproduce them - tried some changes with my graphing program and now it has to be fixed again :D

 

hcpE35R.png

ArBzUhN.png

As mentioned in the graphs Current and speed are some arbitrary units (but somehow mostly in somewhere in a real range...). This was done to get a single limit line - this line normaly changes by battery voltage. So the values could be in a 20%-30% range from reality.

With the normal 45 km/h tiltback it seems to be very safe and conservative to limit oneself to 55A.

I should find a backup of my script before the change (maybe/hopefully) - then i can redraw this with the limits with "real" km/h and A for different battery charge states...

... and as one sees in the second graph the points are somehow "quantized" - they take just "some values" and form "strange patterns". So i don't trust them fully and so also not my trial of interpretation.

 

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3 hours ago, Planemo said:

Thanks Chriull, I didnt know that Z10 wheel log data could be seen as sporadic under certain circumstances. I would appreciate your thoughts if and when you get a closer look at the logs.

Found the according script for gnuplot - here the graph with "real" speed and current values and your 55A limit:

qxwLe4w.png

The Z10 has 15 cells in serie? The two limit lines (49V and 60V) should be for quite low/empty and quite full charge?

Edit: Ps.: The upper 100A limit was choosen absolutely free and without any knowledge about an internal current limit

Edited by Chriull

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@Planemo - just found out that from one wheellog.csv from an Z10 overlean (second graph two post above) i had to increase the limit for the Z10. Don't remember too much about the other graphs:

Sp4Xdq9.png

If this is true the 55A limit is already very limiting for the Z10 possibities. Here with 45 km/h upper limit overlean should be almost not possible - currents would be well above 150A? So a current limit would be just to save the wheel (molten cables, fuses, mosfets) from this current burden...

So no real recommendation from my side - if this data is about correctly interpreted as said a current limit would be just for the safety of the EUC. But best to just start out with some limit and you'll see how you feel with it - and maybe want to increase it if it beeps to often and you still feel save :).

Drive careful and don't accelerate too much into higher speeds!

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@Planemo

In my expirience, 110 Amps = overlean, in any speed in any voltage.
Pedals starting to tilt forward and becomes soft at current ~80 Amps, in any voltage in any speed.

So I usually set alarm at 75 amps, it's really helpful for Z, but please note, as @Chriull told, in some circumstances data is not updated for a some period of time (0.5-3 sec)

I think this video may be helpfull.

 

@Chriull here log of this ride for your visualizer if needed (time ~8:48:50): https://electro.club/data/users/7470/geodata/4681.csv

and here my another overlean (with fall) on test of acceleration (time ~11:02:00), without video: https://electro.club/data/users/7470/geodata/8340.csv
 

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Thanks guys, really appreciated. So at 55A it certainly seems I am well within the wheels limits. I think I will set to 70A to give me a little more to play with as my experience grows. If I get an alarm at that, I know its time to chill out a bit.

I never accelerate hard after 22mph or so, but its nice to have the warning for any 'making progress' accelerations below that.

Again, this advice is great. I wouldnt hold any of you to the figures, but it gives me *something* to go on rather than nothing :)

 

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1 hour ago, palachzzz said:

@Planemo

In my expirience, 110 Amps = overlean, in any speed in any voltage.

Seems to be the firmware current limit of the Z10 - I added a 110A and 80A line to the graphs:

4681.csv

oNUWXJW.png

8340.csv:

kUF3dmN.png

 

1 hour ago, palachzzz said:


Pedals starting to tilt forward and becomes soft at current ~80 Amps, in any voltage in any speed.

So I usually set alarm at 75 amps, it's really helpful for Z, but please note, as @Chriull told, in some circumstances data is not updated for a some period of time (0.5-3 sec)

One sees these "blackouts" a bit here:

Znhcgzg.png

Especially before the faceplant (last touch of the 110A line) there the current does not get updated for ~1 seconds and jumps from 65A directly to 104A!

2019-07-26,11:01:54.905,...49.32,65.29,...
2019-07-26,11:01:54.971,...,49.32,65.29,...
2019-07-26,11:01:56.065,...,49.32,104.14,...
2019-07-26,11:01:56.103,...,49.32,109.00,...
 

1 hour ago, palachzzz said:

 

@Chriull here log of this ride for your visualizer if needed (time ~8:48:50): https://electro.club/data/users/7470/geodata/4681.csv

and here my another overlean (with fall) on test of acceleration (time ~11:02:00), without video: https://electro.club/data/users/7470/geodata/8340.csv
 

Thanks!

Seems to be exactly the info @Planemo wanted! Unfortionately absolut not reliable as alarm/warning, as the data blackouts can take too long... ;(

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22 hours ago, Chriull said:

Seems to be the firmware current limit of the Z10

Seems to be so.. 

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Cheers guys. I am still trying to understand the graph data, but it does appear you have 110A as the max firmware limit which is great info for me 👍

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On 9/25/2019 at 11:56 AM, palachzzz said:

@Planemo

So I usually set alarm at 75 amps, it's really helpful for Z, but please note, as @Chriull told, in some circumstances data is not updated for a some period of time (0.5-3 sec)

 

Hi Planemo,

 

Where do you set this alarm please ? within the ninebot app ?


Regards,

Kristo.

 

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9 minutes ago, Kristofior said:

Hi Planemo,

 

Where do you set this alarm please ? within the ninebot app ?


Regards,

Kristo.

 

This is the current alarm available with the wheellog app (android). There is a google playstore version available (not really actively maintained by now?) and @Seba's version :

 

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Best place to order a Z10 for USA riders?  Will SpeedyFeet open a box and weed out DOA before sending?  Or just order from China directly or via eBay, etc?

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I am 99.9% sure that Speedy would ensure unit is operational before sending. Ian would also make sure it plenty of charge if going to the States too, given the 1% loss per day. Checks like this are what you pay the premium price for.

Ordering from China is still a risk as they may not do either of the above.

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On 9/24/2019 at 12:45 PM, Chriull said:

Found the according script for gnuplot - here the graph with "real" speed and current values and your 55A limit:

qxwLe4w.png

The Z10 has 15 cells in serie? The two limit lines (49V and 60V) should be for quite low/empty and quite full charge?

Edit: Ps.: The upper 100A limit was choosen absolutely free and without any knowledge about an internal current limit

What do the different colors mean? Do I understand correctly that bigger dots mean shorter time?

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1 hour ago, Mono said:

What do the different colors mean? Do I understand correctly that bigger dots mean shorter time?

"The points and lines are now colored depending on how near the are to the limit (safety margin). This is calculated by an imaginary line through the origin. 100% is the length of the whole line from the origin until the intersection with the limit line. If the point in the graph is below 50% (more than 50% safety maring) it's colored light-green, till 60% (more than 40% safety margin) green, till 70% dark green, till 80% orange, till 90% dark orange and the last 10% (less than 10% safety margin) in red."

The dot sizes show the time until overlean if one keeps up current acceleration (and burden). The biggest dots are for 0...1 sec,  next smaller 1...2 secs then 2...3 secs and the smallest (graph default) everything above. (Afair and the legend is still up to date :)

The vectors showing the "future impact" on the limit line are for times to overlean <=0.4 sec (afair).

The ninebot specific ~?100/110?A  current limit is not regarded.

Edited by Chriull

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