Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Mrd777]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

So i would guess yeah, as long as the people want powerfull wheels....big batterys are needed and welcome ?

This was the breaking point for me, I wanted the z10 , however changed my pre order to the msuper x, having that 1600wh battery seems imperative for me now. I did a 46 mile trip on Saturday with my Monster, with a 25 minute 3 amp perk charge while I drank an iced coffee. Having that battery is super sweet and a confidence builder for high speed open road touring. I hate the feeling of reducing throttle, and stressing if I have enough juice to make it home.

[EUCMania]

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

So this is what a hard-to-turn, hard-to-maneuver Z looks like LOL ???

 

And a normal city [ramp] uphill on the Z ?

 

Nice finds. The 1Z is very agile in the parking lot scene, with small turning radius and good acceleration. I do not know how much is due to the driver's skill though. 

I read that article about fat tire bike. Looks like they can lower the tire pressure to 5-15psi and talk about the sense of floating, ie not much bouncing. These fat tire bike shown do not have suspensions. This is what I need in an EUC.

One Chinese wrote that Z1 is very stable, very quiet. But the fat tire needs the driver to get used to.

Edited May 1, 2018 by EUCMania

[Esash]

5 hours ago, houseofjob said:

So this is what a hard-to-turn, hard-to-maneuver Z looks like LOL ???

 

 

 

Looks like it brakes like a houseboat though. 

[mezzanine]

As someone who has done a lot of sailing, and had more than a few miscalculated dockings, that gif instantly made me panic because of how easily I can picture that nautical disaster happening to me.  ?

p.s. the new smileys suck

[Jerome]

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Dunno about 95 (what a good year!) but FWIW, this forum is not an end-all-be-all of all EUC riders worldwide. Many riders are either on Facebook, or basically stay away from social media.

 

IMHO the offroading promo is more about cool brand imaging than it is about ACTual offroading capability.

Outside-looking-in, the Z is a redemption project (from the P debacle) by the minority faction OG Ninebot team to prove their worth within the seemingly post-merger dichotomy of Ninebot-Segway (again, the vibe at CES 2018 I got from the mainly caucasian OG Segway team / faction was that they could give 2 ?'s about the Ninebot one-wheeled properties). Remember also that the old spec, re-packaged S1/S2, targeting city-dwelling newbies, was a mild success, at best.

Hence, they need to sell product, they need to sell the Z.

What sells to the 40-60YO male EUC demo sweetspot? Guys offroading in dirt bike gear could do the trick!

Anyone recall all those extreme off-roading, mountain climbing SUV commercials from the 90's-00's. Most SUV owners ended up just riding on regular suburban and city pavement. And many of those SUV's ended up not being such amazing mountain climbers anyways.

I basically agree with the above and you can add the new craze in the motorcycle world the "adventure bikes", who are purchased by people who rarely go off-road but like the idea of the bike being capable of off-road riding if required. I am a person who has no off-road riding desire, yet when I saw the Z series commercial, I knew that was likely my choice for the next wheel. What I saw was that big fat wheel would probably be easier to keep balanced and horrible patches of city sidewalk and curbs would become ho-hum. My many years of riding other forms of PEVs told me 1200w for the "smallest" unit was more than enough to handle any street climb I would encounter in the city. The "different" look was visually attractive and icing on the cake. My $200 deposit was put down in a flash. I saw Ninebot's three models release as a cluster bomb aimed at establishing itself once again as the starter wheel for the serious newcomer with the Z6, capturing a lot of the up-grade trade with the Z8, and for those who have the need for speed and power, the Z10. Everything is set in motion, but price point. If the Z6 is ~ $1000-$1200 , the Z8 ~ $1200 - $1400, and the Z10 ~ $1600, I believe the Z series will capture the largest segment of the EUC market. If the prices are higher than what is speculated above .. not so much. Right now Gotway has no true rivals for the power/speed/range enthusiast. INMotion appears poised to compete aggressively on the low end with its 16 "V8 vs KS14D. It's V10 line along with the Tesla (yes Tesla not ACMv2) will make deep inroads into KS16s  territory.  The KS18L is already in trouble, unless the Z10 proves to be flawed or over-priced. They (KS) broke their "safe speed only image"  to give the 18L Gotway speed along with the KS quality badge. What does Gotway do .. they continue to improve their reliability and come out with the Super X. Stay tuned kiddy, kiddies .

[em1barns]

I am a urban user, and leave on 3rd floor with no elevator.

So while I love the form factor and tyre, anything heavier than 20kg is a no-go.

[Esash]

The KS18L might be the best wheel of all. Waaaay more agile than the Z, with much higher pedal height too, which will lend it even MORE extreme agility for an 18" wheel.

And King Song wheels are generally known for elite braking ability, and for motors designed more for torque/braking than top speed.

That footage of the Z braking, while the rider was leaning all the way back, was pretty pathetic. It strongly suggests that the Z motors are designed with an emphasis entirely on top speed, rather than torque/braking/acceleration from a stop.

Because the Z is evidently "low" torque, its wheelhouse/sweetspot is going to be cruising at 20-25 mph on dirt roads or other relatively smooth surfaces. Nothing wrong with that, but it's going to be a lot less sporty and cat-like than other wheels like the 18L and V10F. 

Aggressive, technical, sporty riding on trails or even urban streets will not be what this wheel excels at. Other modern wheels are much more agile, with much better braking and 0-10 acceleration. 

But the fat wheel and very capable motor will put a whole lot of smiles on people's faces, and the Z-10 should still provide plenty of adrenaline rushes in higher speed situations where quick braking isn't necessary.

Here's the SpeedyFeet review of the Gotway MCM4 High Speed version. I cued it up to Ian compares the braking power to a yacht. The MCM4 HS motor was designed entirely for top speed, very much unlike the High Torque version which had much better braking, instant torque, and 0-10 acceleration:

 

What's curious to me is that the KS18L has an advertised max incline angle of 35 freaking degrees, which is close towhat you might expect from King Song's latest and greatest 2000 watt motor. But that great torque power doesn't quite mesh with the KS18L's top speed of over 30 MPH.  The InMotion V10F is designed entirely for torque/braking/hill climbing, and its max incline angle is advertised as only 30 degrees, and the V10F's top speed is only 27 mph with the non-InMotion app (Dark-something).

If the 18" KS18L can climb hills and brake like the 16" V10F, or even surpass the hill climbing ability, then the KS18L is likely to be the far superior wheel to the Ninebot Z, because I can't see the Ninebot Z being a stud on the hills or with the braking.

 

[mezzanine]

24 minutes ago, em1barns said:

I am a urban user, and leave on 3rd floor with no elevator.

So while I love the form factor and tyre, anything heavier than 20kg is a no-go.

This is why I'm still not convinced there's a better wheel out there for city dwellers than the V8, even though it's been out for so long already.  I'm not convinced the V10 uses the same alloys for the engine construction that was used in the V8 to keep the weight down.  It's got a more powerful engine and more battery, but it's 50% heavier!! 

 

It's got me wondering about the rims/wheels our EUCs use and whether it would be possible in the future to take a page from bicycles that use lighter materials for reducing wheel weight.  Maybe an idea for Jason when he gets his workshop up and running?  Maybe a business idea for an entrepreneurial EUCer to develop aftermarket custom wheels that can be swapped, as we see with most other products.       

The only thing on the horizon that I think might compete is the 18L if it manages to weigh around 36lbs as advertised.  

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

This was the breaking point for me, I wanted the z10 , however changed my pre order to the msuper x, having that 1600wh battery seems imperative for me now. I did a 46 mile trip on Saturday with my Monster, with a 25 minute 3 amp perk charge while I drank an iced coffee. Having that battery is super sweet and a confidence builder for high speed open road touring. I hate the feeling of reducing throttle, and stressing if I have enough juice to make it home.

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, houseofjob said:

@mezzanine 99.9% sure key demo currently for EUC doesn’t start below 40YO. Not saying there aren’t customers below 40 (I am one of them) but this is who is buying the most EUCs right now, most disposable income. This can obviously shift with change in popularity, influx of younger newbies.

 

I do think it's weighted to the older folks, but I do see riders out here in the thirties, which is encouraging. But clearly this is a market for people with disposable income. I do with the prices would stop inching upwards. If the average price starts to exceed $2k I certainly won't be buying as often. 

[Scatcat]

Today I have a 2000W, 858Wh wheel, capable of around 45kph. It is fun, it is powerful, it is nimble, it is fast. But I'm still drooling over these new wheels, and the reasons are pretty simple.

My wheel is good for going at 40kph/25mph the first 8miles/12-13km, doing it beyond that point becomes more and more precarious. The V2 1030Wh battery has no more power for the first bit, but can sustain the max for longer.

This Sunday I visited a friend, and went 16km/10miles in one go, mean speed around 22mph/35kph. Coming home I had about 60-70% battery left. Same thing going there, there was about 60-70% power left and I had to plug the wheel into the charger to feel comfortable going home at reasonable speeds.

I really would like my wheel to be able to transport me 10 miles both ways without coming even close to the point where I have to take care of what speeds I go. In reality a 1000Wh wheel may be what I'm looking for as a minimum, but maybe the Z10 with it's fat wheel will still have a range that is below what I want.

It is not that I go very much further than that very often. But the headroom to be able to do such things without carrying the charger with you, and without waiting for the wheel to "top up" would be very nice.

My next wheel will have more than 1000Wh. That is my minimum for considering buying another wheel.

Also the two things I would want to change in my GT16 apart from battery capacity, are the ability to swallow cracks, bumps and holes without my teeth rattling, and a little more relaxation at high speeds. The GT16 doesn't wobble much, and it has a pretty low centre of gravity, but it's still a narrow tyre and 16". Feeling a bit more "planted" would be really really good.

So the wish list is for serious power, 2kW is preferable. A fairly hefty battery, 1300Wh+ is preferable. A larger wheel and tire, 18"x3" or more is preferable. Something that gives a bit of cushion, which also speaks for a wider tyre.

I go off road from time to time, but these considerations are to accommodate my riding style and make it as pleasurable as possible.

[Esash]

37 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I do think it's weighted to the older folks, but I do see riders out here in the thirties, which is encouraging. But clearly this is a market for people with disposable income. I do with the prices would stop inching upwards. If the average price starts to exceed $2k I certainly won't be buying as often. 

I think there's also an "I no longer give a f#ck" factor. I'm pushing 40 and no longer care if I look silly on my little wheel, but at age 30 I might have been too smug, dismissive, or self-conscious to buy an EUC. Plus younger people have more energy, so pedaling a bike or pushing a skateboard doesn't seem like a chore. And if it does seem like a chore, well there's electric bikes and electric skateboards. Electric skateboards have much more of a youth factor/rebel factor than EUCs, I would guess.

I suspect part of the attraction to EUCs is also trying to grasp at youthful thrills, which people in their 20s-30s aren't necessarily as eager for, or they get those thrills in "cooler" ways.

 

[Esash]

Not sure if posted yet

 

[em1barns]

55 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I do think it's weighted to the older folks, but I do see riders out here in the thirties, which is encouraging. But clearly this is a market for people with disposable income. I do with the prices would stop inching upwards. If the average price starts to exceed $2k I certainly won't be buying as often. 

Yep, happy that 2-year old affordable and dependable v5f/v8 are still around for the entry/mid level range and make very good (European) city wheels.

I wish wheel makers would care more about the sub-1000 usd market. This is where standards could have a benefit: by defining a max speed, there could be a competition on reliability, features and price.

[Kael]

47 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

I think there's also an "I no longer give a f#ck" factor. I'm pushing 40 and no longer care if I look silly on my little wheel, but at age 30 I might have been too smug, dismissive, or self-conscious to buy an EUC. Plus younger people have more energy, so pedaling a bike or pushing a skateboard doesn't seem like a chore. And if it does seem like a chore, well there's electric bikes and electric skateboards. Electric skateboards have much more of a youth factor/rebel factor than EUCs, I would guess.

I suspect part of the attraction to EUCs is also trying to grasp at youthful thrills, which people in their 20s-30s aren't necessarily as eager for, or they get those thrills in "cooler" ways.

 

Hey, we’re not all old. I’m in my 20s, still. 

And segways look silly, but unicycles need skill to master and go fast. They’re cool ? ? 

[thefork]

7 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

Not sure if posted yet

 

Seeing them next to each other, I'm actually more drawn toward the V10F. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by thefork
Spelling

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Today I have a 2000W, 858Wh wheel, capable of around 45kph. It is fun, it is powerful, it is nimble, it is fast. But I'm still drooling over these new wheels, and the reasons are pretty simple.

My wheel is good for going at 40kph/25mph the first 8miles/12-13km, doing it beyond that point becomes more and more precarious. The V2 1030Wh battery has no more power for the first bit, but can sustain the max for longer.

This Sunday I visited a friend, and went 16km/10miles in one go, mean speed around 22mph/35kph. Coming home I had about 60-70% battery left. Same thing going there, there was about 60-70% power left and I had to plug the wheel into the charger to feel comfortable going home at reasonable speeds.

I really would like my wheel to be able to transport me 10 miles both ways without coming even close to the point where I have to take care of what speeds I go. In reality a 1000Wh wheel may be what I'm looking for as a minimum, but maybe the Z10 with it's fat wheel will still have a range that is below what I want.

It is not that I go very much further than that very often. But the headroom to be able to do such things without carrying the charger with you, and without waiting for the wheel to "top up" would be very nice.

My next wheel will have more than 1000Wh. That is my minimum for considering buying another wheel.

Also the two things I would want to change in my GT16 apart from battery capacity, are the ability to swallow cracks, bumps and holes without my teeth rattling, and a little more relaxation at high speeds. The GT16 doesn't wobble much, and it has a pretty low centre of gravity, but it's still a narrow tyre and 16". Feeling a bit more "planted" would be really really good.

So the wish list is for serious power, 2kW is preferable. A fairly hefty battery, 1300Wh+ is preferable. A larger wheel and tire, 18"x3" or more is preferable. Something that gives a bit of cushion, which also speaks for a wider tyre.

I go off road from time to time, but these considerations are to accommodate my riding style and make it as pleasurable as possible.

When I rode the GT16 for ~8-miles, fast, the one think that struck me was it didn't feel as stable and therefore wasn't as enjoyable at the higher speeds. I think the Tesla has the same width tire (not sure about that) yet it feels much more stable. Hmmm, wonder why.

Anyway, that (and the sparkly noisey motor) were the two primary disadvantages that I remember with my ride. I remember how much I liked it's nimbleness and super-firm peddles.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

I think there's also an "I no longer give a f#ck" factor. I'm pushing 40 and no longer care if I look silly on my little wheel, but at age 30 I might have been too smug, dismissive, or self-conscious to buy an EUC. Plus younger people have more energy, so pedaling a bike or pushing a skateboard doesn't seem like a chore. And if it does seem like a chore, well there's electric bikes and electric skateboards. Electric skateboards have much more of a youth factor/rebel factor than EUCs, I would guess.

I suspect part of the attraction to EUCs is also trying to grasp at youthful thrills, which people in their 20s-30s aren't necessarily as eager for, or they get those thrills in "cooler" ways.

 

Many times when I pass a group of skateboarding aged kids (teenagers plus), based on their reactions and expletives , they think the EUC is the coolest thing ever.  So I don't know about this "feeling silly" part. Might be a Californian thing.

[kasenutty]

I've been mocked and teased by a couple cars full of teenagers. Seemed worse last year though. I don't care that much, but I also don't love it. Little jerks. 

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

When I rode the GT16 for ~8-miles, fast, the one think that struck me was it didn't feel as stable and therefore wasn't as enjoyable at the higher speeds. I think the Tesla has the same width tire (not sure about that) yet it feels much more stable. Hmmm, wonder why.

Anyway, that (and the sparkly noisey motor) were the two primary disadvantages that I remember with my ride. I remember how much I liked it's nimbleness and super-firm peddles.

Stability at speed is an acquired skill on the GT16. It is very dependant on foot position and stance. The reason I think is the silicone/rubber shock absorber inserts and the rubber top of the pedals. The connection between the pedals and the wheel is buffered two times by layers of flexible stuff...

Some days I just can't seem to get it right, and while I'm still quite safe at 25mph, it's not comfortable. Other days it feels like the wheel is glued to my legs and that I could go 50mph without risk...  

Well, except the certain face plant when the wheel cuts out...

Edited May 1, 2018 by Scatcat

[nute]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Many times when I pass a group of skateboarding aged kids (teenagers plus), based on their reactions and expletives , they think the EUC is the coolest thing ever.  So I don't know about this "feeling silly" part. Might be a Californian thing.

I had “that’s fu3king sick man” a few days ago. Not sure if that is good or bad.... 

[MacPara]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Many times when I pass a group of skateboarding aged kids (teenagers plus), based on their reactions and expletives , they think the EUC is the coolest thing ever.  So I don't know about this "feeling silly" part. Might be a Californian thing.

Yeah, I had the same experience so far. The skater kids love my EUC and want to ride it. Other than that only comments along the line of "WTF is this?" and I just breached the 50+ barrier, so I guess I just don't care what others think. I am having a blast and that's all that matters to me. 

 

[US69]

9 hours ago, Scatcat said:

the wish list is for serious power, 2kW is preferable. A fairly hefty battery, 1300Wh+ is preferable. A larger wheel and tire, 18"x3" or more is preferable. Something that gives a bit of cushion, which also speaks for a wider tyre.

Your wishlist matches perfectly for the Msuper X....

This is also the wheel i am most curious about. Specs and optics and the better board allready got me....Think i just will take a bit time to get some experience from the beta testers-aka the first buyers ? - if the board /new Mosfet package is as good as the specs say.

[meepmeepmayer]

...and if the tire clearance is no problem.

[nute]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Many times when I pass a group of skateboarding aged kids (teenagers plus), based on their reactions and expletives , they think the EUC is the coolest thing ever.  So I don't know about this "feeling silly" part. Might be a Californian thing.

I had “that’s fu3king sick man” a few days ago. Not sure if that is good or bad....