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Finally: KS18S Review, Mods and diary (Attention: image heavy)


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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

That might be an overstatement. Gotway has a full line of 84 volt wheels which are in customer hands now and for the past year. Nothing from KingSong until probably 2018. The KS14S is clearly better than any competitor offering. However, Gotway owns the 10", 16", and 22" market. 

The KS18S is competitive, yet people still seem to be clamoring for the MSuper. The KS18L appeared to be a Gotway killer, but then we learned of its anemic battery

As long as KingSong continues to artificially restrict performance I think they will always appear second behind Gotway in the performance EUC category.

The only group where KingSong repeatedly wins is with the safety nerds. People who want safety above all else choose KingSong. People who want performance above all else choose Gotway. Pick your poison and be happy that you have the choice.

People who ride Gotway's are an oxymoron.  They seem to value safety because most do wear safety gear, but they don't seem to care about safety when it comes to their wheel.  I and other so called safety nerds value our ability to use our arms and legs so call us name if you must.  The name calling doesn't hurt as much as when you guys fall off your Gotway's or get thrown off.  

The artificial restrictions are there and appreciated.  Like you said, those who looking for the thrill of getting hurt will choose Gotways.  Less and less will choose gotways when they get hurt except for a few on this board who continually choose their poison even though they keep getting hurt.  Strange, it is like an abuse child who still loves the parent who abuses them.  

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31 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

People who ride Gotway's are an oxymoron.  They seem to value safety because most do wear safety gear, but they don't seem to care about safety when it comes to their wheel.  I and other so called safety nerds value our ability to use our arms and legs so call us name if you must.  The name calling doesn't hurt as much as when you guys fall off your Gotway's or get thrown off.  

The artificial restrictions are there and appreciated.  Like you said, those who looking for the thrill of getting hurt will choose Gotways.  Less and less will choose gotways when they get hurt except for a few on this board who continually choose their poison even though they keep getting hurt.  Strange, it is like an abuse child who still loves the parent who abuses them.  

I don't understand, why is it one extreme or the other? Is it such an alien concept that someone would sacrifice safety in the name of performance and thrill, but choose to protect themselves from the consequences of that added risk? To me your argument sounds like no motorcyclist should use any safety gear because they chose the performance of a motorcycle over the safety of a car so obviously they want to lose their arms and legs and die.

Also, I haven't been here long enough to judge characters but I didn't take Marty's "safety nerds" for an insult, rather just a playful jab. :)

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Pick your poison and be happy that you have the choice.

^ This is what you should keep in mind. We all have different preferences and get kicks out of different things.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

That might be an overstatement. Gotway has a full line of 84 volt wheels which are in customer hands now and for the past year. Nothing from KingSong until probably 2018. The KS14S is clearly better than any competitor offering. However, Gotway owns the 10", 16", and 22" market. 

The KS18S is competitive, yet people still seem to be clamoring for the MSuper. The KS18L appeared to be a Gotway killer, but then we learned of its anemic battery

As long as KingSong continues to artificially restrict performance I think they will always appear second behind Gotway in the performance EUC category.

The only group where KingSong repeatedly wins is with the safety nerds. People who want safety above all else choose KingSong. People who want performance above all else choose Gotway. Pick your poison and be happy that you have the choice.

 

I'm still very much considering the MSuper.  Eddie has one in the sales section I didn't expect to still be around. 

Part of the issue could be that King Song and Ninebot seem to leak info about models that they are developing in the pipeline.  There were some vague rumours about the Tesla, and we know about the 100v Monster, but my impression is that Gotway is a little more tight-lipped about new releases.  As a result, it's easier to get excited about and discuss the new King Song or Ninebot models and it can seem like they're closing the gap based on wheels that haven't even been released yet. 

Gotway could have some significant revision coming to the MSuper/ACM that raise the bar and we just don't know it yet.  There's already cause to believe that they've made a significant step forward with the Tesla, based on the reports of it's unusual ride characteristics. 

It's a tangent, but something that drives me crazy is that we can't get our hands on the Korean Gotways.  Don't get me started on the fact they even exist and yet haven't made it into their standard line.  Jason said he needed a minimum order of 200 wheels in order to qualify for the Korean versions.  I wonder whether it would be possible to use a forwarding service of some kind to get one. 

 

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32 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

People who ride Gotway's are an oxymoron.  They seem to value safety because most do wear safety gear, but they don't seem to care about safety when it comes to their wheel.  I and other so called safety nerds value our ability to use our arms and legs so call us name if you must.  The name calling doesn't hurt as much as when you guys fall off your Gotway's or get thrown off.  

I didn't think using the term 'nerd' would be taken as name calling. I'm a performance nerd if that makes you feel better

The artificial restrictions are there and appreciated.  Like you said, those who looking for the thrill of getting hurt will choose Gotways.  Less and less will choose gotways when they get hurt except for a few on this board who continually choose their poison even though they keep getting hurt.  Strange, it is like an abuse child who still loves the parent who abuses them.

I didn't say that of course. Except for the first sentence in this paragraph, what you wrote was unnecessarily over the top.

I see no evidence of Gotway retreating in the market place. To the contrary they continue to push out new and exciting products like 100 volt wheels, 10" wheels, the Tesla, and probably a couple more new wheels before KingSong gets the 18L in distribution. And even the 18L is looking like an overgrown 16S. KingSong needs to innovate more.

 

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6 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 

I'm still very much considering the MSuper.  Eddie has one in the sales section I didn't expect to still be around. 

Part of the issue could be that King Song and Ninebot seem to leak info about models that they are developing in the pipeline.  There were some vague rumours about the Tesla, and we know about the 100v Monster, but my impression is that Gotway is a little more tight-lipped about new releases.  As a result, it's easier to get excited about and discuss the new King Song or Ninebot models and it can seem like they're closing the gap based on wheels that haven't even been released yet. 

Gotway could have some significant revision coming to the MSuper/ACM that raise the bar and we just don't know it yet.  There's already cause to believe that they've made a significant step forward with the Tesla, based on the reports of it's unusual ride characteristics. 

It's a tangent, but something that drives me crazy is that we can't get our hands on the Korean Gotways.  Don't get me started on the fact they even exist and yet haven't made it into their standard line.  Jason said he needed a minimum order of 200 wheels in order to qualify for the Korean versions.  I wonder whether it would be possible to use a forwarding service of some kind to get one. 

 

If I had just a little more disposable income, I'd hop on a plane and buy one in Korea and then Fedex it home. Very doable, if not inexpensive :(

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15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If I had just a little more disposable income, I'd hop on a plane and buy one in Korea and then Fedex it home. Very doable, if not inexpensive :(

 

Yeah, I was asking myself if I have any Korean friends I could convince to grab one for me.  I don't, unfortunately, but I'm going to investigate the possibility of paying some sort of commission to a forwarding service.  I'm cautiously optimistic it's possible because I've used something similar buying a much smaller item from China.  They'd have to reassure me I wouldn't get killed on customs.   

Looking like $1400 US for the ACM Plus in-store. 

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Let me enable you a bit...  :whistling:  It looks like most charge 10% commission.

http://koreanbuddy.com/

Did you try contacting GEVKorea to see if they ship to Canada?  They don't seem to be selling like hotcakes if that stock counter is accurate.  196 remaining?  :blink:

http://m.gevkorea.co.kr/goods/goods_view.php?goodsNo=1000000034

Is the ACM 16 Plus Korean model that much better to want to go through the trouble?  I see a cooling fan, some different axle inserts, maybe slight higher upper speed, what's the big deal?

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24 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Let me enable you a bit...  :whistling:  It looks like most charge 10% commission.

http://koreanbuddy.com/

Did you try contacting GEVKorea to see if they ship to Canada?  They don't seem to be selling like hotcakes if that stock counter is accurate.  196 remaining?  :blink:

http://m.gevkorea.co.kr/goods/goods_view.php?goodsNo=1000000034

 

Thanks for the link, I knew there had to be a service like that available.  I think I may have overestimated the significance of the of changes that GEVKorea instituted in their version of the ACM.  It looks like more minor stuff than I was hoping for.

They only ship within Korea. 

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I haven't seen any ACM16 pedal inserts getting loose, but that extra bracket looks nice.  I wonder though if it might fatigue the axle metal over time.  Sometimes it's better to just replace worn out inserts than deal with a damaged axle.  As far as I have seen only the Monsters and some Msupers have had the pedal support loosening problems with the inserts getting distorted.  The fan is a nice touch.  Overall it does look to have a few more tweaked features, but you would have to weigh the benefits for the extra cost and hassle.

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44 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Let me enable you a bit...  :whistling:  It looks like most charge 10% commission.

http://koreanbuddy.com/

Did you try contacting GEVKorea to see if they ship to Canada?  They don't seem to be selling like hotcakes if that stock counter is accurate.  196 remaining?  :blink:

http://m.gevkorea.co.kr/goods/goods_view.php?goodsNo=1000000034

Is the ACM 16 Plus Korean model that much better to want to go through the trouble?  I see a cooling fan, some different axle inserts, maybe slight higher upper speed, what's the big deal?

The redesigned pedal brackets w/shims is a significant improvement, but those colors are the real special feature. The rest of us have to satisfied with black :mellow:

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7 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I haven't seen any ACM16 pedal inserts getting loose, but that extra bracket looks nice.  I wonder though if it might fatigue the axle metal over time.  Sometimes it's better to just replace worn out inserts than deal with a damaged axle.  As far as I have seen only the Monsters and some Msupers have had the pedal support loosening problems with the inserts getting distorted.  The fan is a nice touch.  Overall it does look to have a few more tweaked features, but you would have to weigh the benefits for the extra cost and hassle.

It does happen. During a semi-recent group ride one of the members had an older ACM where the inserts were so loose that the wheel was scary (for me) to ride.

Why Gotway doesn't incorporate this in all of their wheels continues to be a mystery. My theory is that they ordered thousands of the crappy shims and are intent on using up the stock before upgrading the design.

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14 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I haven't seen any ACM16 pedal inserts getting loose, but that extra bracket looks nice.  I wonder though if it might fatigue the axle metal over time.  Sometimes it's better to just replace worn out inserts than deal with a damaged axle.  As far as I have seen only the Monsters and some Msupers have had the pedal support loosening problems with the inserts getting distorted.  The fan is a nice touch.  Overall it does look to have a few more tweaked features, but you would have to weigh the benefits for the extra cost and hassle.

I wanted to add that when I tore apart @YoshiSkySun's burned up ACM I saw that Gotway did incorporate the backing plate that is shown in those Korean pictures. My ACM from early 2017 does not have the plate. Baby steps, but improvement none the less.

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Given enough miles and seat time, the V3s feels telepathic in its handling. However, with my KS16s it took just a few minutes to acclimatize. If they just expanded the KS16 in every way while keeping the weight nearly the same, then such a wheel would make 18 inches, not 16 inches, the standard do it all wheel. While we disagree which is better, ks18 or V3s, I think we can all agree they are too large to manhandle up flights of steps.

I will say the V3s does require one to weave in order to keep it heading approximately straight, and crossing the crown of the road flips the direction to which the wheel wants to run. All my other wheels exhibit this behavior but the V3s is the worse of the lot.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/10/2017 at 11:13 AM, KingSong69 said:

@Rehab1 Maybe thats an additional tubing? i dont know...

But they are def. single strand wire, as they are very, very hard to contour and bend....no chance that this i normal wire.

 

@all:

Final picture with the sticker, looks cool i find, also i have put the dust away and cleaned a bit :-)

Everyone who finds my dog in this picture...its a bonus ;-)

7rlqmEB.jpg

finally got the handle.  really solid product!  how did you attach it and does it interfere with the seat?  i see the bolt on the bottom and the bungie cord at the top.

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I does not interfere with the seat. Seat is usable as allways.

I have dismounted the rolls and then I have cut the the Trolley handle at about 10 cm where the rolls where placed and drilled some holes into the pipes. These are used for the bolts.

On Top i only left this one piece with the clamps and dimounted the other "Connection piece", also. The Piece with the clamps is than just mounted by the bungie cord to the wheel handle.

 

Here some other Fotos:

4pis8CB.jpg

brW8vHd.jpg

Older KS18:

fksazPY.jpg

sBPzM8X.jpg

 

For the bungy cord...orientate yourself on the black wheel...it is much better mounted than on the White.

Hope that helps

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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I does not interfere with the seat. Seat is usable as allways.

I have dismounted the rolls and then I have cut the the Trolley handle at about 10 cm where the rolls where placed and drilled some holes into the pipes. These are used for the bolts.

On Top i only left this one piece with the clamps and dimounted the other "Connection piece", also. The Piece with the clamps is than just mounted by the bungie cord to the wheel handle.

 

Here some other Fotos:

4pis8CB.jpg

brW8vHd.jpg

Older KS18:

fksazPY.jpg

sBPzM8X.jpg

 

For the bungy cord...orientate yourself on the black wheel...it is much better mounted than on the White.

Hope that helps

You have two ks?

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I've got one of the cheap generic trolley's coming from China, but I'm doubtful whether it will be robust enough for the KS18.  I'll be posting here once it arrives for guidance from you guys who have already done the installation of these things.  Curious to see how your install goes, @eddiemoy.

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6 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I've got one of the cheap generic trolley's coming from China, but I'm doubtful whether it will be robust enough for the KS18.  I'll be posting here once it arrives for guidance from you guys who have already done the installation of these things.  Curious to see how your install goes, @eddiemoy.

I've bought two trolley handles from China, for 14 and 16-inch wheels. They are poor excuses for a trolley handle when compared to what comes with the various wheels. Wobbly, tissue thin metal, etc. They are OK if you are prepared to beef them up (I've added aluminum bars in strategic places to make them more sturdy. But the telescoping parts are awful.

Let me know if you found a sturdy one. If I can find a solid unit I'd like to adapt it for my Monster. Please let me know.

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Just now, Marty Backe said:

I've bought two trolley handles from China, for 14 and 16-inch wheels. They are poor excuses for a trolley handle when compared to what comes with the various wheels. Wobbly, tissue thin metal, etc. They are OK if you are prepared to beef them up (I've added aluminum bars in strategic places to make them more sturdy. But the telescoping parts are awful.

Let me know if you found a sturdy one. If I can find a solid unit I'd like to adapt it for my Monster. Please let me know.

Thanks for the heads-up.  I kinda figured that would be the case, but wanted to believe I might be able to get away with the easy option.  :(

I think we should join forces and petition @KingSong69 to help us get one of these german-manufactured wonders that @eddiemoy has managed to get his hands on! ;)

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I went with what @KingSong69 suggested, buying from the german ebay seller.  shipping was the same as the product.  price came out to be EUR 63.90

He still has two if anyone wants one.  It is really sturdy!  Built like a tank!  the release is very fluid. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122810772771

I'll try to put it on this weekend if I have the time.  Need to go to Homedepot to get some parts, the bolts and stuff...

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9 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I went with what @KingSong69 suggested, buying from the german ebay seller.  shipping was the same as the product.  price came out to be EUR 63.90

He still has two if anyone wants one.  It is really sturdy!  Built like a tank!  the release is very fluid. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122810772771

I'll try to put it on this weekend if I have the time.  Need to go to Homedepot to get some parts, the bolts and stuff...

Thanks Eddie.  I looked into buying one a couple weeks ago when I first got the wheel, but got overwhelmed by the language barrier and doubted he'd ship to NA.  I'd assumed when you posted about getting one that KS69 had served as an intermediary. 

Not gonna lie, I'm disappointed that it'll cost close to $100 cdn to get one.  I'll probably bite the bullet, but I don't find walking the KS18 by the handle as bad as I'd imagined I would.  Maybe I'm a little scared that if I install a good trolley on the KS18S that I'll never use the V8.  :unsure:

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Perhaps @eddiemoy can do a video about the handle and how sturdy it is....

Ok, that is a lot of money, when counting the transport costs...but this thing is really worth its money.

Perhaps you should organize a group buy :-)

@Marty Backe This Thing would definitly work for the Monster, also, it is not comparable to this chinese trolleys

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13 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Perhaps @eddiemoy can do a video about the handle and how sturdy it is....

Ok, that is a lot of money, when counting the transport costs...but this thing is really worth its money.

Perhaps you should organize a group buy :-)

@Marty Backe This Thing would definitly work for the Monster, also, it is not comparable to this chinese trolleys

It does look sturdy, and I've bookmarked it. But I have to believe a similar trolley 'part' can be found more locally.

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Completed the mod, took about 30 minutes, if I didn't film it, would have taken 10 minutes.  I used 5/16 2" bolts with washers and industrial zip tie.  It is a really nice handle!  I'll up up a quick video of it later today if I have time.

IMG_0179.jpg

IMG_0180.jpg

IMG_0181.jpg

IMG_0182.jpg

IMG_0183.jpg

IMG_0184.jpg

IMG_0186.jpg

IMG_0187.jpg

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