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Finally: KS18S Review, Mods and diary (Attention: image heavy)

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58 minutes ago, D i c K (ie) said:

If I would get used to it. I can set my alarms to 0;0;39;40

I would always advise to set the 3rd alarm just a bit lower, so that you have more time to react IF you ever run to fast into the 40kmh....

Its nice when the wheel is unlocked to 50kmh...then there is no need to think about anymore...as going over 40 or even 45-48 is crazy wind resistance and normal human beeings will never/seldom reach the 50kmh ;-)

Edited by KingSong69

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24 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

What?

What horror stories of extreme tiltback? On the 18A? Never ever....i have seen some rambling about harsh tiltback of the 16/16s, but in the end it came out, that all those drivers accelerated like crazy fast into the tiltback...and then it is tilting fast, logic...

Maybe it was about another wheel. I really read half of the forum before deciding to buy a new wheel a month ago... :rolleyes:

I will indeed test the tiltback tomorrow at lower speeds.

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13 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I have never tried this, but you are saying Amazon UK will ship to the United States?

Yep.  They have for me.  Both the UK and German places have done it.  

When I did it, you had to open a new account separate from your U.S. account, and enter all the usual info.  I don't think you'll have Prime anymore either, even within that country.  I think because each country has different rights to streaming video.  But that's not important here.  It was hassle-free.  Shipping to California from the UK, the postage wasn't even too bad.  

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@KingSong69 Excellent review! I really love my KS18s and don't regret the purchase at all.  I think your finished modifications look great.  I hope to do some myself.  I wish kingsong would offer the KS18s in matte black like the KS16s.  It's a great wheel.

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Thank you KingSong69  for reply on my questions about the KS18S.

Wish you a lot off good and nice km's on you're new KS!:)

( just ordered one in white, couldn't resist no more:facepalm:)

Edited by gotmotion2016

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Little update on my Review: 

I have reached the 1000km and i have now my Settings successfully adjusted to 0-0-45-50. Great Smile :)

For other KS18S users: You have to use the "old green" android app, or the "new" android (beta) app from KS to do this Setting. It is not working on the "old green" IOS app.

As i have heard the new beta app is now in apple Review process and should pop up on the apple appstore soon.

 

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Dont get me wrong, I am speaking only for myself here: I drive my car daily and see a lot of these more powerful ebikes that go 50kph + and I also have seen several near crashes because the cars dont have a feeling how fast these bikes really are compared to the cars own current speed. I wouldnt want to have to emergency break from 50 down to avoid a crash on a single wheel - ever... :ph34r: 

Thats probably just because I am old... now get off my lawn you kids! :D:D

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1 hour ago, Jag_Rip said:

Dont get me wrong, I am speaking only for myself here: I drive my car daily and see a lot of these more powerful ebikes that go 50kph + and I also have seen several near crashes because the cars dont have a feeling how fast these bikes really are compared to the cars own current speed. I wouldnt want to have to emergency break from 50 down to avoid a crash on a single wheel - ever... :ph34r: 

Thats probably just because I am old... now get off my lawn you kids! :D:D

There's nothin wrong with what you say....When you read the complete thread i said that this "Speed race" of the EUC Producers is ridiculous and (in my view) all Speeds over 35kmh are totally not my Thing. The only reason it used this adjustment is to get rid of the (before) last tiltback and the beeps at 40kmh...which i touched about 2-3 times in the 1000km.

And i like that the 18S is so powerfull and has this big reserves when i am at my prefered, much lower Speed.

Actually my prefered cruising Speed is about 30-33kmh....and that only when on a good light wide street without bumps. These unicycles are just the wrong device for going any faster...your feet are not attached and you are Standing on a solo wheel with your Body into the wind.

 

Edited by KingSong69

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There's no speed race, there's a power race which is clearly needed as you can see from your 18 vs 18S comparison. It just happens that more power also means higher possible speeds.

Well, ok, actually there is a speed race because the manufacturers advertise crazy (unrealistic, *cough* Gotway) speeds.

But the real deal are the reactivity of the wheel and the better (emergency) braking you get from higher powered motors.

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4 hours ago, Jag_Rip said:

Thats probably just because I am old... now get off my lawn you kids! :D:D

Was that you? I remember being chased off lawns!

37487376962_e463cd9abd_b.jpg

 

Edited by Rehab1

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All we need now is a aerodynamic body suit... Imagine an airplane wing with a bubble head on top... Because wind sucks when you're on a wheel except a nice Summer Breeze...

Edited by MetricUSA

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This is the wheel I've come around on the most since first learning about EUCs.  Like many, I was initially put off by the tallness of the chassis.  However, I think I may prefer the ergonomics of the higher balance point and have also grown intrigued with the idea of seated riding.  Now that it's confirmed the 18L will have a smaller battery capacity, the 18S looks more attractive in comparison.  I was initially excited to learn that the 18L would be a 84v system, but doesn't the 67v give one more torque?  Speed is irrelevant for me.  

 

 

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On 10/16/2017 at 1:39 AM, mezzanine said:

 but doesn't the 67v give one more torque?

How do you figure? The motor design is what decides the torque/speed balance. Just like in motor cars. Higher voltage is just capable of delivering more power with less current, which atleast in theory supports less burnt wires.

If smaller voltage would mean more torque, I’m sure we’d see a single cell 3.7V device with a mean ass torque! Especially when the battery is running low... :P

Edited by mrelwood

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30 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

How do you figure? The motor design is what decides the torque/speed balance. Just like in motor cars. Higher voltage is just capable of delivering more power with less current, which atleast in theory supports less burnt wires.

If smaller voltage would mean more torque, I’m sure we’d see a single cell 3.7V device with a mean ass torque! Especially when the battery is running low... :P

 

Yeah, this was a misconception on my part based on a discussion from another thread.  I'm still trying to understand how the 18S compares to the MSuper 84v in terms of torque and power given that it operates on the 67v system.  I don't care about speed.  I've read that the 18S has a much harder response and that it can climb very steep hills, both characteristics that would lead me to believe the 18S has better performance. 

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3 hours ago, mezzanine said:

 

Yeah, this was a misconception on my part based on a discussion from another thread.  I'm still trying to understand how the 18S compares to the MSuper 84v in terms of torque and power given that it operates on the 67v system.  I don't care about speed.  I've read that the 18S has a much harder response and that it can climb very steep hills, both characteristics that would lead me to believe the 18S has better performance. 

Mostly 84Volt System are good for a higher Speed and a better handling of low Batterie...as the 84 Volt Systems use the same 60Volt Motors/wheels.

But a 84Volt System must not mean that a 67Volt System is less powerfull or has less torque.

From my experience the 18S is (for a 18inch wheel) extremly torque and powerfull. It eats the V3 67Volt for breakfast and is as same powerfull and torque as the V3s+ 84Volt.

Now owning the 18S i always got afraid and unsecure  when using my 67V V3...because the pedals where so soft, weak and spongy, so that i sold it, as it would otherwise only become a Dustkeeper.

The 18S really is by far the best wheel i have ever driven......

 

Here someone who owns both and had done an acceleration race test between 18S and V3s+ 84Volt:

KS18S is even the winner....

I would not call this testin any way scientific......but: it clearly shows that 67Volt (from another Producer) can be as or even more powerfull and torque as 84Volt.

 

I am personnaly very exited to see the 18L next year. KS  even throws in a more powerfull Motor in the production 18L(2000Watt) and i am pretty sure next year they will bring a 1600Wh or 2000Wh Version of the 18L to market, also.  In comparison to GW they just take there time for new developments

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@KingSong69

Your comments have helped relieve the uncertainty I had about the difference between the 67v and 84v wheels.  In your initial review you had mentioned that you hoped to be able to do a more direct comparison against the 84v MSuper.  Were you ever able to get together with your friend to compare them?  It sounds like they are similar in torque/power. 

I didn't realize that the 18S is as responsive as it is.  Probably because there are so many version of the KS18.  Coming from a V8, the idea that the 18S performs similarly is a big selling point.  I worry a bit that I might not use the 18S as much because it'll be less convenient than my V8.  If I could find a used deal on a 16S I'd probably just grab that. 

I'm excited about the 18L, too.  Not sure whether to buy something now or wait until that becomes available.  I was worried the aliexpress sellers might not be able to source the 18L with King Song's new policy. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I didn't realize that the 18S is as responsive as it is.  Probably because there are so many version of the KS18.  Coming from a V8, the idea that the 18S performs similarly is a big selling point.  I worry a bit that I might not use the 18S as much because it'll be less convenient than my V8.  If I could find a used deal on a 16S I'd probably just grab that. 

I'm excited about the 18L, too.  Not sure whether to buy something now or wait until that becomes available.  I was worried the aliexpress sellers might not be able to source the 18L with King Song's new policy. 

For the reactiveness: You always have to take into account that it is a 18inch wheel....18inchers in general are not that agile as smaller wheels. When i changed from my first 14inch wheels to a 18inch wheel i got quite shocked, how less of reactive and agile this is.

But as said...for an 18 inch the 18S is a fantastic choice! Nonetheless i would only recommend it to experience drivers, as the high shell puts another “get used to” on top of the bigger wheel. Even 18inch driver struggle a bit.

Yes, in the beginning i was doubting that the 18S can keep on powerwise with the 84Volt v3s+....but forget that, i could compare it a bit longer until then. It is the most powerfull 67volt wheel i ever tried, and keeps up with the v3s+! Other users like @eddiemoy might agree on that...btw he did the acceleration video!

I also (owned) a v3 67 volt, self upgraded to nearly 1200wh. This v3 i had to sell! as after getting used to the rockhard stable pedals and top notch riding mode of the 18S...i really get afraid when riding the v3. Thats no joke, in comparison that GW felt spongy and untrustable to me..

(which it is not, as the buyer was happy and found it stable, as it was a upgrade for him also)

 

If you have time....i would wait for the 18L...seams like another good move from KS...even more power, 84volt also!

For the aliexpress buyers....my opinion is the sellers will never go away, when the 18L is on sell, i could for sure give you some tipps where to buy it......(while Jason from ewheels.com has really fair prices and top service in the states)

Some more questions? You are welcome!

Edited by KingSong69

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10 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

The Gotway Msuper have not grown on me like I thought it would if I gave it some more time.  I don't like the top heavy feel of it and in general feels less stable than the lighter KS18S.  Even though the KS18S is taller, it doesn't feel top heavy.  I think the Gotway Msuper is just a poor design.  You never see any cars perform well when the center of mass is all the way on the top.  It is just a disaster waiting to happen and I'm not willing to take the risk.  That is why I've put my Msuper up for sale in preparation for the 18L.  I feel more stable on the KS18S also because I can grip it with my knees and lean more like it is an extension of my body.  I always grab the KS18S when I know I will be riding long and need have the option to sit.  

I just went bike riding with my kids over the weekend, about a few hours and my younger one got tired.  He said his balls are being crushed by the seat.  LMAO.  He is 7 years old and I had to carry him and his bike, him in my arms and his bike in my hand on the KS18S.  Going as fast as I could while still waiting for my 11 year old to catch up on his bike.  I've tried carrying my son, but never him and his bike.  I was amazed how stable I was.  Never once did the KS struggle or act out of the ordinary.  But the total weight was probably a little under 220lbs.  LOL.

 

 

KINGSONG 18S is really amazing. I am Super Happy with mine too!!

 

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10 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

I am personnaly very exited to see the 18L next year. KS  even throws in a more powerfull Motor in the production 18L(2000Watt) and i am pretty sure next year they will bring a 1600Wh or 2000Wh Version of the 18L to market, also.  In comparison to GW they just take there time for new developments

If this happens i will buy it!!!

I want to have two good wheels. 

Or buy another KS18S with more power and battery if they release one, but this time in colour white, or the 18L with the above specifications!!

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2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

For the reactiveness: You always have to take into account that it is a 18inch wheel....18inchers in general are not that agile as smaller wheels. When i changed from my first 14inch wheels to a 18inch wheel i got quite shocked, how less of reactive and agile this is.

But as said...for an 18 inch the 18S is a fantastic choice! Nonetheless i would only recommend it to experience drivers, as the high shell puts another “get used to” on top of the bigger wheel. Even 18inch driver struggle a bit.

Yes, in the beginning i was doubting that the 18S can keep on powerwise with the 84Volt v3s+....but forget that, i could compare it a bit longer until then. It is the most powerfull 67volt wheel i ever tried, and keeps up with the v3s+! Other users like @eddiemoy might agree on that...btw he did the acceleration video!

I also (owned) a v3 67 volt, self upgraded to nearly 1200wh. This v3 i had to sell! as after getting used to the rockhard stable pedals and top notch riding mode of the 18S...i really get afraid when riding the v3. Thats no joke, in comparison that GW felt spongy and untrustable to me..

(which it is not, as the buyer was happy and found it stable, as it was a upgrade for him also)

 

If you have time....i would wait for the 18L...seams like another good move from KS...even more power, 84volt also!

For the aliexpress buyers....my opinion is the sellers will never go away, when the 18L is on sell, i could for sure give you some tipps where to buy it......(while Jason from ewheels.com has really fair prices and top service in the states)

Some more questions? You are welcome!

 

I really appreciate your feedback on the 18S.  You and Eddie both make a very strong case for the KS18S and without your reviews there is no way I would feel confident buying it.  You've dispelled my only remaining concern, which was whether the 18S is handicapped by the 67v system.  I wasn't sure because in your initial review the way you worded it, I thought maybe you still doubted whether it could compete for power and torque with the 84v Gotways and would have to wait until you could compare them in person yourself to find out. 

I'm really curious to learn more about how the hardness and stability of the pedal response effects the electronics, in terms of current/voltage handling, because I'm still ignorant about how it's managed.  Is it possible that the Gotways are softer in response because their electrical system couldn't handle the harder response of the KS18S?

Yes, I was very relieved to discover that it's not impossible to still source wheels from China.  I had really hoped to organize a group buy for the 18L directly through King Song, but would it make more sense to try to do it through a middleman?  I suspect we have the same person in mind.  Might be a way to knock $150 off the price if we could get at least 10 people.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

Your observations have had a big influence on me as I've been comparing both wheels.  I really appreciate how straight forward and honest you've been about your perceptions of the two wheels.  I followed your enthusiasm about getting the Msuper and how persistently you tried to come around to liking it.  At least you've gained the insight of having learned what you like in a wheel.  What I wouldn't give to be able to try out a few of these expensive options before having to decide...

I didn't realize the 18S is lighter than MSuper.  My impression is that Gotway sort of got ahead of the rest of the competition in offering higher power and bigger battery wheels, but in the last six months KS has taken the lead back with the S series.

That might be an overstatement. Gotway has a full line of 84 volt wheels which are in customer hands now and for the past year. Nothing from KingSong until probably 2018. The KS14S is clearly better than any competitor offering. However, Gotway owns the 10", 16", and 22" market. 

The KS18S is competitive, yet people still seem to be clamoring for the MSuper. The KS18L appeared to be a Gotway killer, but then we learned of its anemic battery

As long as KingSong continues to artificially restrict performance I think they will always appear second behind Gotway in the performance EUC category.

The only group where KingSong repeatedly wins is with the safety nerds. People who want safety above all else choose KingSong. People who want performance above all else choose Gotway. Pick your poison and be happy that you have the choice.

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