Technology & Design Improvement Possibilities

[Slaughthammer]

Just now, Chris Westland said:

I may be mistaken, but I thought the Enicycle was an implementation of an inertia wheel pendulum -- an EUC with an inertia wheel (the 2nd gyroscope) attached... the inertia wheel doesn't itself stabilize, but provides inputs to help stabilize ...

I don't see any evidence of it. If I'd done a unicycle with true 2 axis self balancing, I would showcase the hell out of it by letting it drive around driverless etc...

[Keith]

@Chris Westland, I agree with @Slaughthammer and also see: http://www.enicycle.com/prototype.html it uses a MEM's electronic Gyro. Also http://www.enicycle.com/how_it_works.html states: "Electronic gyroscope measures vertical angle of eniCycle. If you lean forwards, this is detected by gyroscope and the electronic accelerates the speed of the motor to put the eniCycle back in balance." I.e. exactly the technology in our EUC's. That picture you posted shows something that IMHO is far too small to be a spinning mass gyroscope.

[MaxLinux]

The Fastwheel Ring reminds me of the Solowheel Orbit.

 

[Chris Westland]

4 hours ago, Keith said:

@Chris Westland, I agree with @Slaughthammer and also see: http://www.enicycle.com/prototype.html it uses a MEM's electronic Gyro. Also http://www.enicycle.com/how_it_works.html states: "Electronic gyroscope measures vertical angle of eniCycle. If you lean forwards, this is detected by gyroscope and the electronic accelerates the speed of the motor to put the eniCycle back in balance." I.e. exactly the technology in our EUC's. That picture you posted shows something that IMHO is far too small to be a spinning mass gyroscope.

OK, I'll stand corrected on this: MEMs (micro-mechanical m.) is obviously not moving enough inertia to make a difference.  I was sure at some point that I had heard of an EUC, where the "inverted pendulum" software integrated an inertia wheel to make small corrections and stabilize it sideways. 

[Chris Westland]

Here is an article (written up in Wired) for such a wheel.  Perhaps they have never been commercialized http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/10/08/unibot-3d-stabilization/

 

[Scatcat]

9 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

I wonder if IPS and Inmotion could throw in some cheap removable seats and pads and thwart Chen's lawsuit ... just thinking ...

Or just licence the Simeray patent and dare Shane Chen to sue them. Show prior art, and the patent goes out the door.

[Keith]

5 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

Here is an article (written up in Wired) for such a wheel.  Perhaps they have never been commercialized

Just look at the physical size and mass of the flywheel compared with the device it is balancing - it isn't a solution that is going to scale well to the weight of an adult. Admittedly the big flywheel is creating an inertia wheel pendulum, I.e. It isn't spinning it is being driven clockwise or anti-clockwise and the torque reaction of driving it is being used to balance (Newton's third law). 

I guess a fast spinning gyroscope, or in practice probably a pair or gyroscopic wheels with opposite rotations, would not need to be so big but it would still add considerable weight and IMHO be likely to have unwanted side effects, not the least of which, I would think would be to prevent you leaning in order to turn.

[Rehab1]

12 hours ago, Slaughthammer said:

No gyroscopic flywheel in it....

No additional flywheel. Here is a video. Thankfully the design of EUCs has advanced way beyond this concept! 

 

 

[sanman]

8 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

The Fastwheel Ring reminds me of the Solowheel Orbit.

 

14 hours ago, Catlord17 said:

The stabilizing gyroscope concept, wouldn't that have to defy the laws pf physics to work?  If I understand this correctly, the stabilizing gyroscope would have to periodically or continuously occupy the same space as the wheel motor at the same time... unless perhaps one such gyroscope on either side would work? Two perpendicular rotating wheels in equilibrium, essentially, if I understand this correctly.  

If you look at a hubless design like that Solowheel Orbit, it uses a ringwheel instead of a traditional tire.

So you could have the flywheel residing in the pedestal area. This would also lower the center of gravity for the machine itself.
Or alternatively, what if the flywheel was the ringwheel, while leaving the tirewheel a conventional tire? The flywheel-ring would then loop around the tire at approximately pedestal height, and the foot pedestals would rest on top of its casing/housing.

 

[sanman]

23 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

No additional flywheel. Here is a video. Thankfully the design of EUCs has advanced way beyond this concept! 

 

 

The tire's size and thickness look interesting - are there any EUCs that feature this type of tire? A wider/thicker tire might be easier to balance on, as well as handling more rugged terrain. It would also be more durable and less likely to suffer a flat.

[Chris Westland]

2 hours ago, Keith said:

Just look at the physical size and mass of the flywheel compared with the device it is balancing - it isn't a solution that is going to scale well to the weight of an adult. Admittedly the big flywheel is creating an inertia wheel pendulum, I.e. It isn't spinning it is being driven clockwise or anti-clockwise and the torque reaction of driving it is being used to balance (Newton's third law). 

I guess a fast spinning gyroscope, or in practice probably a pair or gyroscopic wheels with opposite rotations, would not need to be so big but it would still add considerable weight and IMHO be likely to have unwanted side effects, not the least of which, I would think would be to prevent you leaning in order to turn.

This is just the way they implemented an inertia wheel; it doesn't need to be that big.  The inertia wheels in satellites, etc. are generally very small ... they are spinning tops, and you have a motor shift them, and you get a push to the system at 90 degrees from the push to the top.  I agree with you on weight and the cost; I also think that it would be confusing to the rider, as you would lose some of the dynamic feedback already in an EUC.

[Chris Westland]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

No additional flywheel. Here is a video. Thankfully the design of EUCs has advanced way beyond this concept! 

It was 2006 ... the advancements in EUC's since 2012 have been amazing; agreed, we are at a different level of tech.

[sanman]

3 hours ago, Keith said:

Just look at the physical size and mass of the flywheel compared with the device it is balancing - it isn't a solution that is going to scale well to the weight of an adult. Admittedly the big flywheel is creating an inertia wheel pendulum, I.e. It isn't spinning it is being driven clockwise or anti-clockwise and the torque reaction of driving it is being used to balance (Newton's third law). 

I guess a fast spinning gyroscope, or in practice probably a pair or gyroscopic wheels with opposite rotations, would not need to be so big but it would still add considerable weight and IMHO be likely to have unwanted side effects, not the least of which, I would think would be to prevent you leaning in order to turn.

If you lean, you're exerting a force against the gyroscopic wheel which can be sensed, and this would be used to electronically control the EUC accordingly. I have one of those Nintendo Wii Balance Boards, where you can lean in different directions on it to control your gameplay - the board itself doesn't end up physically tilting, of course. It seems like the main circumstance where gyrostabilization is needed, is when the EUC is either stationary or at very low travel velocity - in other circumstances, the active gyrostabilization (ie. the rpm of the gyroscopic flywheel) could be reduced to allow you more turning/maneuvering capability, because when you're traveling faster, you automatically get more gyrostabilization from the tirewheel itself.

 

[Chris Westland]

Just a thought on shock absorbers for wheels; you could buy a pair of small dirtbike shocks (~$10/ea best price) and mount them rigidly to the pedal / hub using short non-pivoting metal bars; this would be lighter and simpler than the setup that the Gotway FB page shows (below).  No comments on the ridability / desirability, but you'd like springs as well as shocks to absorb the energy.  

[ubertoad]

I really hate to turn it off when I lift it. I don't actually need to do that for curbs, as quick lift is fine, but still there are stairs.

Something like turning off the motor when it is lifted by the handle should be enough. Maybe even better to turn it off based on the axis pressure, as you might not need motor power even when in the air jumping.

[sanman]

Just as long as you don't accidentally force the motor to cut out by tugging the handle while rolling.

Since overheating by batteries/motor/elecronics can be an issue, why don't they introduce air scoops in the front to suck in oncoming air for cooling the internals? External fins for heat exchange might also help.

 

[Mono]

 

On 02/08/2017 at 9:53 PM, Chris Westland said:

I wonder if IPS and Inmotion could throw in some cheap removable seats and pads and thwart Chen's lawsuit ... just thinking ...

Hasn't Inmotion recently gone the more comprehensive road and just bought Chen in full?

[ubertoad]

Also, the pads. Now I open them primarily by hands and I believe they are designed to be operated like this. This should not be the case. Either they should be designed to be opened by feet or have some convenient button or a lever to open. This is no rocket science, some cavity to put a feet to force it open should be enough.

Is there already a wheel which pads are designed to be opened by feet?

[Mono]

20 minutes ago, ubertoad said:

Also, the pads. Now I open them primarily by hands and I believe they are designed to be operated like this.

Depending on the wheel pedal fold out might work out-of-the box with the foot, or there can be a simple fix. Adding some ankle padding which prevents the pedal from folding tight to the shell has worked for me, thereby serving two useful purposes. 

[brjohnso]

The standard industry solution is for each manufacturer to obtain their own patents. Then, they share them via a cross licensing agreement. At the very least, each is protected from the others by their own patents. It also provides a great benefit to investors in the company since the patents are generally purchased by the competitors if the business folds. 

[Demargon]

Like always, they need more power and less weight. More resistance and less complexity, easy to repair and safer.

I think the biggest challenge is making a highway legal EUC, but honestly I think we are far away from that happens

[EUCGUY]

On 4.8.2017 at 12:04 PM, ubertoad said:

I really hate to turn it off when I lift it. I don't actually need to do that for curbs, as quick lift is fine, but still there are stairs.

Something like turning off the motor when it is lifted by the handle should be enough. Maybe even better to turn it off based on the axis pressure, as you might not need motor power even when in the air jumping.

I can easily lift my wheels for as long as i wish without turning them off, just learn to balance it in the middle and rotate it forward/back by a tiny amout whenever the motor starts to rotate.

edit: Up stair, i dont normally carry it  hehe