Hopefully somebody could help(Ninebot One)

[hobby16]

@Tishawn

Your capacitor is a decoupling one, it's used for filtering power noise and thus not strictly required. It can be removed without impacting the board.

the fact of soldering it makes the board stop functionning may have many causes :

- the capacitor is broken and acts as a short or partial short (low plausibility)

- the coppers traces under and around the capacitor have taken some hit and your soldering has added some unseen shorts

A thourough visual inspection, with close-up pictures may help to diagnose. Not easy to repair if you don't have adequate materials, like a magnifier, pointy soldering tips... so you can probably forget the capacitor.

BTW, thank you for your very instructive picture of the BMS. In fact, as said above and I confirm, Ninebot has a dangerous BMS to that MUST be shunted.

Grrr, come on, manufacturers, stop the stupidity !

 

Edit : I forgot to say, it's not true Ninebot One has not had power cut. Some on the French forum was victim but I did'nt attribute it to the BMS, thinking Ninebot as a big company could not have made a so dangerous BMS. Well, I reverse my judgment now.

 

[Daan]

BTW, thank you for your very instructive picture of the BMS. In fact, as said above and I confirm, Ninebot has a dangerous BMS to that MUST be shunted.

Grrr, come on, manufacturers, stop the stupidity !

Do you really think so? That would be terrible  -- I mean, what brands *would* be safe then?  Is it only Solowheel and King song?  Also, Ninebot is a big company with many engineers -- perhaps the BMS is custom designed to communicate with the main board and there are other mechanisms in place to prevent cut-off??

[dpong]

Yes, this is bad news indeed!  Perhaps we will learn more. 

[Mono]

@Tishawn

Your capacitor is a decoupling one, it's used for filtering power noise and thus not strictly required. It can be removed without impacting the board.

the fact of soldering it makes the board stop functionning may have many causes :

- the capacitor is broken and acts as a short or partial short (low plausibility)

- the coppers traces under and around the capacitor have taken some hit and your soldering has added some unseen shorts

A thourough visual inspection, with close-up pictures may help to diagnose. Not easy to repair if you don't have adequate materials, like a magnifier, pointy soldering tips... so you can probably forget the capacitor.

BTW, thank you for your very instructive picture of the BMS. In fact, as said above and I confirm, Ninebot has a dangerous BMS to that MUST be shunted.

Grrr, come on, manufacturers, stop the stupidity !

 

Edit : I forgot to say, it's not true Ninebot One has not had power cut. Some on the French forum was victim but I did'nt attribute it to the BMS, thinking Ninebot as a big company could not have made a so dangerous BMS. Well, I reverse my judgment now.

 

In this case you might consider editing/updating the tagged post about BMS, Electric Unicycle's BMS problem and solution?

[Rotator]

@Tishawn

Your capacitor is a decoupling one, it's used for filtering power noise and thus not strictly required. It can be removed without impacting the board.

the fact of soldering it makes the board stop functionning may have many causes :

- the capacitor is broken and acts as a short or partial short (low plausibility)

- the coppers traces under and around the capacitor have taken some hit and your soldering has added some unseen shorts

A thourough visual inspection, with close-up pictures may help to diagnose. Not easy to repair if you don't have adequate materials, like a magnifier, pointy soldering tips... so you can probably forget the capacitor.

BTW, thank you for your very instructive picture of the BMS. In fact, as said above and I confirm, Ninebot has a dangerous BMS to that MUST be shunted.

Grrr, come on, manufacturers, stop the stupidity !

 

Edit : I forgot to say, it's not true Ninebot One has not had power cut. Some on the French forum was victim but I did'nt attribute it to the BMS, thinking Ninebot as a big company could not have made a so dangerous BMS. Well, I reverse my judgment now.

 

May be that the BMS cutoff was designed to cutoff current above the maximum power that the euc can use? So it would be protected against short circuits only?

I suppose that no, because this kind of protections work with "low voltage detection" and not "high current detection". Anyway, difficult to say without access to the BMS diagram.

Do you really think so? That would be terrible  -- I mean, what brands *would* be safe then?  Is it only Solowheel and King song?  Also, Ninebot is a big company with many engineers -- perhaps the BMS is custom designed to communicate with the main board and there are other mechanisms in place to prevent cut-off??

Not. AFAIK the only wires to/from the battery are two for power output and two for charge input. So there is not any control line or something like that.

[Tishawn Fahie]

@hobby16 - Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm glad I was able to contribute just a tiny bit.. Now that explains the 2 times I face planted and thought it was my fault. I actually thought I accelerated to hard which caused the device to shut off and me falling. Oh dear just when I thought I purchased a safe device.

Thank you regarding the capacitor I think your right when it got knocked off it probably was touching something else - I'm just glad it didn't short anything, Still waiting on the Ninebot company to reach back to me. They ask for pictures and haven't heard back from them since.

Hopefully tonight I'll get a response.

[dpong]

You guys who ride fast are my heroes.  So take that as the spirit.  But you guys ride like *Maniacs* at that high speed!  I respect 'maniacs' and in this spirit I do not mean that as a bad thing.  But how the heck do you survive 2 face plants at these kinds of speeds?   What protective wear helps save you?  

I took a spill on the Airwheel X8 doing all the wrong things (over-leaning with low-ish battery).  One trip to Urgent Care for rib X-rays totally changed the way I look at these wonderful devices.  A month later and the ribs are still sore, by the way. 

How will you survive your next face plant at full speed?  

You guys are a wonder to me.  I don't wear a lot of protective gear, and I won't go that fast, either.  

Good luck to you all, and GodSpeed.  

 

[esaj]

You guys who ride fast are my heroes.  So take that as the spirit.  But you guys ride like *Maniacs* at that high speed!  I respect 'maniacs' and in this spirit I do not mean that as a bad thing.  But how the heck do you survive 2 face plants at these kinds of speeds?   What protective wear helps save you?  

I took a spill on the Airwheel X8 doing all the wrong things (over-leaning with low-ish battery).  One trip to Urgent Care for rib X-rays totally changed the way I look at these wonderful devices.  A month later and they are still sore, by the way. 

How will you survive your next face plant at full speed?  

You guys are a wonder to me.  I don't wear a lot of protective gear, and I won't go that fast, either.  

Good luck to you all, and GodSpeed.  

 

I haven't faceplanted from a high speed (at least yet ), but I do wear full gear all the time when riding farther than a 100m or less (when testing tire pressure after inflating/deflating, or showing a friend something when he's wearing my gear, for example, and in those occasions I ride fairly slow).  My gear consists of:

http://images.biltema.com/PAXToImageService.svc/product/large/2000023495  Full-face systems helmet

http://images.biltema.com/PAXToImageService.svc/altimage/large/82-889_l_2.jpg  Knee/shin pads

http://images.biltema.com/PAXToImageService.svc/altimage/large/82-889_l_1.jpg  Elbow/forearm pads

http://demonsnow.com/store/image/cache/data/th-500x500.jpg  Double-splinted Flexmeter Demon wrist guards, these actually go all the way up to the elbow/forearm pads, so my hands are "armored" up to my upper arm.

Lately I've been mostly riding with sneakers, but earlier on I used pretty much exlusively sturdy hiking boots, that support the ankles.

[Tishawn Fahie]

@dpong - Trust me I know what you mean when I first got my ninebot I was careful I even set the app to limit the speed to only 12 km. I realize how slow that was when I decided to jump on the bike trail. I got yelled at left and right. I decided to go home that night and get comfortable riding with no limits on the speed. I got use to it - At first I wore a helmet elbow and knee pads, even had shin guards.

Now that i'm so comfortable riding it - I'm only wearing the shin guards and gloves.

 

Both times I faceplate I didn't I wasn't riding to fast. Scaled up my knees and my hands with the gloves on. Thank god my face was fine and didn't brake nothing.

NY everything moves to fast. Bikers are behind me cabs trying to cut me off you almost have to move fast to keep up and get away (if that makes sense) but trust me I know what you mean I ride safely and carefully.

[dpong]

My hat is off to you both.  I don't set the NB1 to speed limit, but I just limit it myself by slowing down. 

Elbow guards might have assisted cracking my ribs, if they were hardened.

Good luck to all Wheelers everywhere, may you be safe. 

[Tishawn Fahie]

@esaj - And that makes sense - I get a lot of question about this thing - Mostly how fast this thing goes. In all honesty i'm expecting to fall at some point - either do to me being stupid or maybe an unexpected bump in the road, pedestrians who love to run out into the street, taxis who don't seem to look when their pulling out of parking, When I know traffic is hectic and there's people all over the place trust me I ride very slow.

I do love to move fast,  I ordered the firewheel I cant wait to shunt and ride.

Good luck and Godspeed to you all.

[esaj]

I believe there's some amendment to Murphy's law, that says if I leave of the gear, I'll be face-first in the asphalt in no-time. But as long as I keep using them, nothing happens...   Well, in all honesty, I've had four falls in total so far, and the first one (on the very first day with the 14") was the kind where I suspect my jaw would have broken had I not been wearing the helmet (the chin-part hit the pavement pretty hard). In others, I would have at least had some pretty bad scratches, if not fractures.

[dpong]

I believe there's some amendment to Murphy's law, that says if I leave of the gear, I'll be face-first in the asphalt in no-time.

But as long as I keep using them, nothing happens... 

The spirit of Murphy's law is embodied in your first sentence.

There is nothing in Murphy's law that supports your second sentence, my friend. 

Murphy was not an optimist.

But sometimes when me and my friends are feeling particularly cynical, we will say:  "Murphy *was* an optimist."  Murphy strikes when you not expecting, and when you *are* expecting.  

I apologize for the thread drift.  

[esaj]

@Tishawn Fahie: Although you're going to shunt the Firewheel (and I'm not 100% sure if it prevents the shutdown after the last warning or not, although it seems to do so on me & hobby16!), consider using some safety gear (I'd suggest a minimum of skating helmet & wrist guards). This is Michael Vu's video of (probably non-shunted) Firewheel shutting down above 28km/h (he couldn't hear the warnings due to wind, and there's no tilt-back):

 

[hobby16]

@Tishawn Fahie: Although you're going to shunt the Firewheel (and I'm not 100% sure if it prevents the shutdown after the last warning or not, although it seems to do so on me & hobby16!), consider using some safety gear (I'd suggest a minimum of skating helmet & wrist guards). This is Michael Vu's video of (probably non-shunted) Firewheel shutting down above 28km/h (he couldn't hear the warnings due to wind, and there's no tilt-back):

With a shunted BMS, the Firewheel never shuts down, without warning.

At very high speed, above 28km/h, you get a violent tilt-back that calms you down quick. So if anyone experiences a power cut without a tilt-back warning, it's 100% sure his wheel's BMS has not been shunted.

At very low battery, it tilts back progressively until you can't ride anymore and climb down. And then, what is neat that it latches into the no-power mode, so you can't climb back again, all you hear is a nagging "battery low", a rather well-thought procedure that secures both the rider and the battery.

As a sidenote, I just had a crash today coming home. It was  my fault, I didn't see a bump on the road because of the tree shades and was ejected by the wheel when it rode over the bump. It was at 25 km/h (there was a nice backwind, so it was hard not to ride fast with the Firewheel). I ran as fast as I could and ended up making a rollover to avoid scratching my hands. Got nothing, except dust on my clothes and a little scratch on my helmet. The Firewheel had stopped immediatly and was about 10m behind me !

Paradoxically, I was so tense riding at high speed that it saved my arse. Constrast that to the faceplant by the Gotway, it was at lower speed but with much worse consequences (I was all blood and my clothes were wrecked) because it was unexpected and there was a sudden power cut.

Apparently, speed is not everything. When you feel the takeoff, don't wait and hope, run ! It was very very usefull. I think I will take time to train myself for it to become a routine, like a martial artist.

[esaj]

At very high speed, above 28km/h, you get a violent tilt-back that calms you down quick. So if anyone experiences a power cut without a tilt-back warning, it's 100% sure his wheel's BMS has not been shunted.

At very low battery, it tilts back progressively until you can't ride anymore and climb down. And then, what is neat that it latches into the no-power mode, so you can't climb back again, all you hear is a nagging "battery low", a rather well-thought procedure that secures both the rider and the battery.

This still confuses me, is there a tilt-back on newer Firewheels or not..? Or do you mean the sudden acceleration yours does when hitting the last warning? Does it tilt-back the pedals simultaneously? I've never had a tilt-back with the Firewheel because of speed, only because of the low battery (and it won't tilt-back until the warning begins and you have to slow down and stop, and even then it's very slight).

 

As a sidenote, I just had a crash today coming home. It was  my fault, I didn't see a bump on the road because of the tree shades and was ejected by the wheel when it rode over the bump. It was at 25 km/h (there was a nice backwind, so it was hard not to ride fast with the Firewheel). I ran as fast as I could and ended up making a rollover to avoid scratching my hands. Got nothing, except dust on my clothes and a little scratch on my helmet. The Firewheel had stopped immediatly and was about 10m behind me !

Paradoxically, I was so tense riding at high speed that it saved my arse. Constrast that to the faceplant by the Gotway, it was at lower speed but with much worse consequences (I was all blood and my clothes were wrecked) because it was unexpected and there was a sudden power cut.

Apparently, speed is not everything. When you feel the takeoff, don't wait and hope, run ! It was very very usefull. I think I will take time to train myself for it to become a routine, like a martial artist.

Good to hear you didn't hurt yourself. I've hit a sudden unexpected bump a couple of times, that nearly threw me off as I jumped a bit on the pedals... 

[hobby16]

This still confuses me, is there a tilt-back on newer Firewheels or not..? Or do you mean the sudden acceleration yours does when hitting the last warning? Does it tilt-back the pedals simultaneously?

In fact I don't know, yet  Wasn't it you that should test and tell ?

I think if we don't slow down, the sudden speed boost at 28-30km/h would end up being a permanent tilt back. You can still ride up as long as you avoid reaching 36km/h, the speed at which the wheel cuts off when lifting it by your arm.

But since I never kept the speed long enough above the warning threshold, I can only speculate.

[esaj]

In fact I don't know, yet  Wasn't it you that should test and tell ?

I think if we don't slow down, the sudden speed boost at 28-30km/h would end up being a permanent tilt back. You can still ride up as long as you avoid reaching 36km/h, the speed at which the wheel cuts off when lifting it by your arm.

But since I never kept the speed long enough above the warning threshold, I can only speculate.

Oh hell no, I'm not testing it (at least not until I got 4 battery packs to share the load, and probably not even then... ).  

I don't get the speed boost on my board (which probably is different from yours, as we have discussed before and compared the other things are different, like the warnings on mine that start occurring earlier once the battery is more depleted), also mine shuts down at 39-40km/h when doing the lift test. I still don't think there is any speed-based tilt-back on mine, but of course cannot be totally sure... I've ridden long straits with speed at or over 30km/h, but never had any. if there is a tilt-back, it's gotta be somewhere around 35km/h or faster, and I doubt my current batteries could give enough juice to keep me up at that speed . Plus, if the "take care"-speed is meant to be the absolute maximum, why would they have programmed a tilt-back at even higher speeds?

[dalewalker]

Safest bet is to replace the battery. Try using an external battery with it until you have it replaced if you have 1 and see if that stops it

[jesi]

On 4.8.2015 at 4:32 AM, Tishawn Fahie said:

 

Hmm, is that board inside of battery wrap?
If yes, what it does? For balancing or what?

[esaj]

21 minutes ago, jesi said:

Hmm, is that board inside of battery wrap?
If yes, what it does? For balancing or what?

Yes, it's a BMS (Battery Management System) -board from inside the battery wraps. It takes care of balancing and a number of protections; overvoltage-protection for charging-side, overdischarge (undervoltage)-protection to prevent deep discharging the cells, although that can be problematic if the voltage sags a lot during high discharge current (ie. it can cut the power from your wheel while riding ), overcurrent/short-circuit -protection and (sometimes) temperature-protections.

[jesi]

fffff.
No good news, had plans to make extra battery.
But then it is lipos and do care all by my self.

BTW, app in your signature looks familiar, say hello to Vesa