New Member

[Sven]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

Just a spur of the moment ride.

I'm taking the MSuper for an exploratory ride at Griffith Park tomorrow (Sunday) morning. I'm not sure of the trail conditions or if my MSuper (or a Monster) can handle them. I'm hoping to start 7:30am because I want to be done before it starts getting very warm.

or before horse riding begins...

 

I'd hope to join you at 7:30, can you give me a morning call? lol j/k I'll join you there with my broken monster. (jason hasn't said it's danger to ride my monster after seeing the "jerking" video i sent him)

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I'd be hesitant to ride that Monster wheel if it's starting to act up.  It could be a sign of a MOSFET on it's way out or something else not quite right.  Exploring unknown territory with a heavy wheel might be asking for trouble!  I don't know if Marty could carry a Monster back like you did with his ACM.  Have you figured out what the problem is?

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Sven said:

or before horse riding begins...

 

I'd hope to join you at 7:30, can you give me a morning call? lol j/k I'll join you there with my broken monster. (jason hasn't said it's danger to ride my monster after seeing the "jerking" video i sent him)

OK, but no guarantees on the riding conditions.

[Sven]

35 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I'd be hesitant to ride that Monster wheel if it's starting to act up.  It could be a sign of a MOSFET on it's way out or something else not quite right.  Exploring unknown territory with a heavy wheel might be asking for trouble!  I don't know if Marty could carry a Monster back like you did with his ACM.  Have you figured out what the problem is?

Yeah... you have point there. I wouldn't mind faceplant but marty carrying monster back down the hill could be troublesome ... 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Did you check the axle nuts?  Any spare wheels in the collection?

[Maximus]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

So to reiterate, beyond the riding benefits of larger batteries and more powerful motors, I recommend those attributes for safety.

This is a nice theory, but ask any member which wheel they purchased over the last month and I can almost guarantee that if they bought a King Song the word "safety" will be somewhere in their top 3 reasons why. On the other hand, if they purchased a Gotway (ACM or MSuper) I can almost guarantee that they did it in spite of the safety concerns and in the back of their minds are scared as hell that the wheel may have some problem that has yet to be identified (see one example below):

 

[meepmeepmayer]

@Rywokast 16S is a great wheel (as is the ACM). If you know you won't regret the "smaller" battery (still huge, with your weight you might get like 55 km range or more, who knows) one could argue the 16S is the better choice than the ACM because of the other features. And since you decided to upgrade from a V8, the 16S seems the more natural choice for you. More similar in features (handle, lights) and style of usage (if that makes sense - city riding) to the V8 than the ACM.

And Marty is right, if you buy a Gotway it should not be from Ali right now, until much later when it is guaranteed you definitely will not get one produced in the bad firmware times.

Anyways, enjoy your upcoming awesome ride!

@eddiemoy I don't go 40 km/h, because I'm 80kg and don't want to go that fast anyways. Was just explaining what someone else might want to do with an ACM (and a lighter person can go 40 without danger), should they want to do that.

And 1300Wh can be used up easily. Do a day ride with lots of breaks, include some elevation gained, and there you have it. Took me 4 hours of riding time. I would definitely have added 10 or 15 km on my way home (did cut it short due to battery), would not have hade to go slooooow while the wheel beeped at me the last few km, and would not have had to carry it for the last few hundred meters, and would possibly have added a detour in the middle, had my battery been bigger. And yes my feet were dead flat at the end but I could still stand on the wheel

As Marty explained, it's also about having enough reserves left for spontaneous detours and not even having to think about battery. Some people just aren' comfortable with battery levels under 40% My motto is "You must give up before the wheel does" for how I want my wheels used for long range trips to be. Which theoretically is 8-10 hours of (battery demanding) riding. 1300Wh are still far from that. Of course these are extreme requirements, but it would be lovely to do a 100km day trip and return with 50% battery, simply because you can "Battery anxiety" is a way of life/riding, a promise of unlimited, no-strings-attached exploring, some people just enjoy it

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Rywokast said:

I think my verdict is the KS16s 1200/840.. it is 100 cheaper than the ACM plus built in trolley handle that looks good, battery is slightly larger (and large enough to very easily get me to anywhere in my city and back twice by my calculations), although the motor is 300W less, but to be fair I reckon I will never go top speed unless i'm in full gear on a huge open field and I think 1200W is way more than enough power for someone of my size.. If the ACM was the exact same price and included the handle I would go for it, but for 100 less (200 including the handle) for a better looking IMO wheel, think i'll go for that. You guys provide some good information though and I have until Monday to pull the trigger on a new purchase but thats where i'm currently leaning.

Some more comments:

• If you're looking at the 67.2V ACM (680, 820Wh), the battery should be the exact same size as the KS16S:
  16 serial cells * 4 times * 3.7V nominal cell voltage * 3500mAh per cell = 828,8 Wh.
  GW just uses that as 820 while KS as 840.
• In the 67V ACM vs 67V 16S comparison, I'd go for the 16S because the main strengths of the 84V ACM (25% more powerful 84V version, bigger batteries) aren't there, and in my opinion then the 16S is better overall (I've tested neither 67V ACM or 16S, but I guess you would not even notice the power difference).
• If you're doubting you'll need a bigger battery, you'll be happy with 840 (or whatever the exact number) Wh. Especially with your weight which gives you ~25% (guesstimate) more range compared to a 80kg rider. Some people just instantly know they'll need as much range as possible (like me or Marty) and the big batteries are for them (you'd benefit too, but you won't miss it if it isn't there, and you can always get another wheel should you really want more range).

[LanghamP]

Are there fast chargers for the KS16? I'll take my fast charger on the very rare occasion for my V5, and it's surprisingly quick to do a charge at a coffee shop. I mean, twenty minutes and it's full.

I will point out my range used to be no more than 9 miles but as I got smoother it gradually went up to about 19 miles per charge, with two bars left. I weigh 100kg.

[eddiemoy]

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Are there fast chargers for the KS16? I'll take my fast charger on the very rare occasion for my V5, and it's surprisingly quick to do a charge at a coffee shop. I mean, twenty minutes and it's full.

I will point out my range used to be no more than 9 miles but as I got smoother it gradually went up to about 19 miles per charge, with two bars left. I weigh 100kg.

I have a fast charger for the KS16. 4amps.  Jason also sells a fast charger for the 67V stuff. 

[Maximus]

4 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Are there fast chargers for the KS16?

@Jason McNeil provides a great quick charger with adjustments for amperage and percent of charging, eliminating the need for the Charge Doctor. It is quick, but because the battery is so much larger, it's not as quick as the V5F. I agree with the point though that if you want more range, in theory you can still map out a stop at a local restaurant or other where you could charge up and increase range...

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Maximus said:

This is a nice theory, but ask any member which wheel they purchased over the last month and I can almost guarantee that if they bought a King Song the word "safety" will be somewhere in their top 3 reasons why. On the other hand, if they purchased a Gotway (ACM or MSuper) I can almost guarantee that they did it in spite of the safety concerns and in the back of their minds are scared as hell that the wheel may have some problem that has yet to be identified (see one example below):

 

I agree with you. I was just espousing why I think additional power and range are additional safety benefits of Gotway wheels.

Buying KingSong instead of Gotway for safely is irrational in my view, but people (myself included) are often irrational.

I've been at this long enough to see injuries from every wheel made with no clear evidence that Gotway has a higher incidence of injury producing accidents. The mere act of riding on a non-redundant one wheel device puts a person in a higher risk category of living. Once you accept that and gear up appropriately, Gotway is just fine.

I'm sure that nobody who has ridden a KingSong now or in the future will experience an injury producing accident 

[WARPed1701D]

24 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Are there fast chargers for the KS16? I'll take my fast charger on the very rare occasion for my V5, and it's surprisingly quick to do a charge at a coffee shop. I mean, twenty minutes and it's full.

I will point out my range used to be no more than 9 miles but as I got smoother it gradually went up to about 19 miles per charge, with two bars left. I weigh 100kg.

 This is exactly my plan with my V8. 99% of my expected riding will be within battery range. For longer I'll take the fast charger and top off. With a 16S this would give you a long range.

 I'd rather not lug the weight of all that extra battery around with me for the 1% of the time I will use it. Everyone's needs are different though.

[Maximus]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm sure that nobody who has ridden a KingSong now or in the future will experience an injury producing accident 

Haha, fair enough 

[Dingfelder]

On 7/22/2017 at 6:31 PM, Rywokast said:

hmmm, if I was rich I would for sure, but they are like 200 US more on there than on ali..

Saving money by gambling that you will have no need for good after-purchase service could be a false economy.  

Honestly, I can wait a long time before getting what I really want.  That might not apply to everybody.  But in general I'd rather just have nothing until I can get what I really want than get something and find out it isn't satisfying or was a mistake.

[WARPed1701D]

1 minute ago, Dingfelder said:

Saving money by gambling that you will have no need for good after-purchase service could be a false economy.  

Honestly, I can wait a long time before getting what I really want.  That might not apply to everybody.  But in general I'd rather just have nothing until I can get what I really want than get something and find out it isn't satisfying or was a mistake.

Agreed. I'd pay the $200 for peace of mind and a good seller relationship even after the warranty is up.

[Rywokast]

 

7 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

Saving money by gambling that you will have no need for good after-purchase service could be a false economy.  

Honestly, I can wait a long time before getting what I really want.  That might not apply to everybody.  But in general I'd rather just have nothing until I can get what I really want than get something and find out it isn't satisfying or was a mistake.

 

4 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Agreed. I'd pay the $200 for peace of mind and a good seller relationship even after the warranty is up.

never bought a warranty in my life and never regretted not doing so.. shipping would cost an arm and a leg from canada for me anyways and it would probably just be cheaper to buy a new part if something went wrong (rather than the initial 200 dollars more, plus the shipping there and back if any issues).. but for me, i dont see it as a necessity, a good thing to have yes.. i also have a 50 dollar ali coupon. if i was in the US and the price difference was 100 or less, sure, but spending 200+ more for the same thing on the off chance of a defect seems futile, unless my budget was much higher

[Dingfelder]

Depends on your ability to fix your wheel yourself and your overall level of luck, I suppose.  The second wheel I bought, an MSuper, had a serious, even dangerous problem that I wouldn't have been able to either fix or diagnose.  Not a good average.

Everyone should just do what they like, but don't mistake

1.  this industry for one with settled technologies you can be cavalier about counting on yet

2. the companies making wheels with the sort of commitment to high standards, to customer service, or subjection to the kind of oversight and regulation we have come to expect in the west

In the west, you can expect a sort of warrant of merchantability and even, perhaps, legal recourse if you get stiffed with a lemon or hurt by a product.  These wheels come out of 
China, so if you have a problem ... good luck.  You're gonna need it.

It's not like deciding whether to buy a warantee at Best Buy for a Sony.

[Rywokast]

thats true.. all good points, im still weighing my options it depends on the model i decide on for example the KS16s i can get from alibaba for 450.00 US (shipping included on both) cheaper than from ewheels.. thats a 40% price jump, for me being in canada, the shipping is killer, whereas its probably free for most places in the US.. i mean unless the chance of the wheel failing from a factory defect is 40% or more, thats a huge gamble.. im guessing its way, way less

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

thats true.. all good points, im still weighing my options it depends on the model i decide on for example the KS16s i can get from alibaba for 450.00 US (shipping included on both) cheaper than from ewheels.. thats a 40% price jump, for me being in canada, the shipping is killer, whereas its probably free for most places in the US.. i mean unless the chance of the wheel failing from a factory defect is 40% or more, thats a huge gamble.. im guessing its way, way less

Buy the KingSong then. It's not worth the risk of buy a Gotway from them when you can't be assured that you're getting a wheel with good firmware. If you go ahead anyway and buy a Gotway from Alibaba right now you really are rolling the dice on your future health.

[Rywokast]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

Buy the KingSong then. It's not worth the risk of buy a Gotway from them when you can't be assured that you're getting a wheel with good firmware. If you go ahead anyway and buy a Gotway from Alibaba right now you really are rolling the dice on your future health.

yea i wouldnt get the gotway from ali if i decide to go for it, after you mentioned it i was doing some researching and found that to be the case with some of them.. wouldnt want to risk that

[Rywokast]

what i may do is get the considerably cheaper kingsong for daily commuting and within the city, and then six months or so down the road, get a larger one with a much bigger battery like the msuper (hopefully price will go down by then haha) for very long distance/offroad trips for fun.. but for commuting, in and around the city, the 1200/840 should be plenty for me

[Marty Backe]

Just now, Rywokast said:

what i may do is get the considerably cheaper kingsong for daily commuting and within the city, and then six months or so down the road, get a larger one with a much bigger battery like the msuper (hopefully price will go down by then haha) for very long distance/offroad trips for fun.. but for commuting, in and around the city, the 1200/840 should be plenty for me

In the year that I've been in the game I haven't seen any wheel prices go down. Unfortunately they seem to be rising because of newer models with added capabilities. You can always go used 

[Rywokast]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

In the year that I've been in the game I haven't seen any wheel prices go down. Unfortunately they seem to be rising because of newer models with added capabilities. You can always go used 

 yea probably be a lot more than six months till the prices go down drastically... better chance that they would just have a new model by then and sell the remaining inventory haha.. yea thats always an option, see quite a few around with low mileage

[Dingfelder]

A number of people here have sold their wheels because they wanted to upgrade to newer versions of the same wheel.  There have been some good bargains in the used wheel section here.  And some of the sellers have been around here for a while, sold multiple wheels and such, so they're by now well vetted by the community.  

That and jumping on wheel close-outs might be a good way to save some money.  

One nice thing is that you can even order from people in different parts of the U.S. and even in Europe and get a wheel for a similar price, because they might all go from China to Los Angeles, at which point extra costs have yet to be incurred.  Marty Backe, out of California, got a wheel from Ian of speedyfeet.uk, I think, as well as one from Jason@ewheels.com, who is in Florida, ... and I think may have recommended myfunwheels.com out of Brentwood California, too.

So as far as your wallet goes, it may not always matter where a person's brick and mortar shop is.