Noam Elad Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 i bought the ks16s and i want to buy some safety gear becase of its speed (35kmp), some recommendation of protectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Noam Elad said: i bought the ks16s and i want to buy some safety gear becase of its speed (35kmp), some recommendation of protectors? Search the forum (upper right corner search box). I did it for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Elad Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 47 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Search the forum (upper right corner search box). I did it for you: TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Noam Elad said: i bought the ks16s and i want to buy some safety gear becase of its speed (35kmp), some recommendation of protectors? Please, keep the speed down until you have about 1000 kilometers experience. It will still be fun, but gradually increase the speed with time. KS16S, wow, that's a good one to get. Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pard Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Check out Carlos on the Gotway ACM at 50- 55 seconds into this superb video posted by Marty. Carlos is suited up for anything that wheel plans to dish out. Full upper armor and abrasion resistant jacket, full face helmet, wrist quards, knee pads. Those pants also look like motorcycle grade gear to prevent road rash. ATGATT: All the gear all the time will help you live injury free to enjoy the sport. What do you want to be sporting when you are sent flying face first at 20 miles per hour? Just my chicken little opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Elad Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 11 hours ago, Pard said: Check out Carlos on the Gotway ACM at 50- 55 seconds into this superb video posted by Marty. Carlos is suited up for anything that wheel plans to dish out. Full upper armor and abrasion resistant jacket, full face helmet, wrist quards, knee pads. Those pants also look like motorcycle grade gear to prevent road rash. ATGATT: All the gear all the time will help you live injury free to enjoy the sport. What do you want to be sporting when you are sent flying face first at 20 miles per hour? Just my chicken little opinion. my country is pretty small and this kind of transportation is great, i can go to anywhere i want. buses are pretty slow and we dont have public transportation at saturday so i just need it. also i want a strong motor to get great performances 12 hours ago, steve454 said: Please, keep the speed down until you have about 1000 kilometers experience. It will still be fun, but gradually increase the speed with time. KS16S, wow, that's a good one to get. Lucky that speed should i go about till 1000k experience? its better to buy something good that holds its value that buying a cheap wheel .i can always find a purpuse for this wheel so i dont care much about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Noam Elad said: that speed should i go about till 1000k experience? About 10-12 mph is a lot safer than the top speed of the Kingsong. I was joking about the 1000k, you will know when you have enough experience to increase your speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 The trend of buying safety gear thinking it will prevent injury is highly flawed; you cannot buy your way out of getting injuries using just safety gear. If you cannot fall from a standing position onto the ground with minimal injury then you need basic falling skills. You can easily and cheaply aquire that by taking something like a judo or a tumbling class, where they very gently push you over until you can fall without injuring yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambino Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hello some of the riders are bravous... they ride whitout notihing to protect.... humm, thats increase the adrenaline!!! I now thats more dangerous, but... i like!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, LanghamP said: The trend of buying safety gear thinking it will prevent injury is highly flawed; you cannot buy your way out of getting injuries using just safety gear. If you cannot fall from a standing position onto the ground with minimal injury then you need basic falling skills. You can easily and cheaply aquire that by taking something like a judo or a tumbling class, where they very gently push you over until you can fall without injuring yourself. And even that helps -in my opinion- only when that fall is a forseeable fall! If you have a Cutout from board-failure or else....and you are over a certain Speed, all Judo-rolls will help you nothing! Thats just smashing on the ground and you can be lucky if you slide a bit and dont slam a new pothole in the ground.... My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pard Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, LanghamP said: The trend of buying safety gear thinking it will prevent injury is highly flawed; you cannot buy your way out of getting injuries using just safety gear. If you cannot fall from a standing position onto the ground with minimal injury then you need basic falling skills. You can easily and cheaply aquire that by taking something like a judo or a tumbling class, where they very gently push you over until you can fall without injuring yourself. Excellent point. One can be trained to fall forward at speed and instinctively optimize the landing. A bit intense, but there is a method to the madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pard Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: And even that helps -in my opinion- only when that fall is a forseeable fall! If you have a Cutout from board-failure or else....and you are over a certain Speed, all Judo-rolls will help you nothing! Thats just smashing on the ground and you can be lucky if you slide a bit and dont slam a new pothole in the ground.... My 2 cents One thing I've found is that with enough training, you do find it natural to either turn your head to the side in a front fall or tuck your chin in all other falls. You can do that extremely quickly, as a matter on instinct like pulling your hand off a hot stove, and no matter what the situation, you never seem to forget it once learned. You're right about rolls, though, they do take a split-second, because you have to determine which way to roll and where to place your hand, as well as how tight you're going to have to make your roll. If you're not approaching the ground at a steep enough angle, you'll have to bring your hand in closer to your body and make a much quicker, tighter,and more difficult roll. Or you may decide not to roll at all, though that's usually a last resort, since no fall hurts less than a roll .... and a fall on the chest shocks the body and hurts the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 If you were to stand on a sheet and have someone randomly yank it out from under you, would you be ok the first time? What if you did the exercise ten times? Would you be better at it than the first time? What about a hundred times? A thousand times? Probably. I'm sure you'd be excellent at crashing and rolling everytime the pedals dipped even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Are you asking me? I would be fine having someone yank a sheet out from under me. That's pretty moderate compared to being thrown forcefully into the ground. The last line of your post implies I said something about the ability or likelihood of rolling under less than ideal conditions when in fact I took up half my post with a paragraph that agreed with a quoted previous poster ... who had said not to count on rolls ... while I added that rolls take extra time and judgment to do and sometimes you might not be able to roll out of falls. In years of training jiu-jitsu, I have practiced falling and also been thrown hard and fast and at weird angles more than I believe is even possible for anyone who hasn't specifically trained in a throwing art. I haven't said anything extraordinary here. I know what the options are, which reflexes you keep, and which ones you lose, from years of real experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 @Dingfelder @LanghamP I agree that training might help for something which is at least a bit forseeable... Question: Did you ever had a real cutout? i mean one where the fuse burned, the mosfets shorted, something really unforseeable while you are cruising along and loving the nice ride and the sun shining! I had one while i was driving a steep hill with about 12-15kmh! BUT: I know that my wheel had a defect at that time, AND i knew that i am on the edge of its power, ergo: I espected the worse as i stupidly was pushing it up the hill with something in my mind like..."come on, you have done that hill before, pleeeaaaase get it!, dont cutout " what i want to say is i was especting the shutoff, even knowing that it NOW can happen (not the cruising happy sun situation)! Despite All This stomach rumors, the relativly slow speed, the foreseeable shutdown....i was not able to do ANYTHING....as the fuse blows! And believe me...crashes where i know they will happen..pottholes, driving mistakes, overconfidence,....i run or roll out or glide on my wrist ad knee protectors...or whatever i am able to do, as i am a quiet good driver meanwhile.... But here: Baam, just slamed onto the hill, broke 1-2 rips as i falled on my arm, (didnt even get the arms up)....the only thing i was able to do, was turn my had, that no front faceplant happens...thats all i got done, because cutouts are so unbelievable fast!!! And know imagine that situation....when you are in NO WAY prepared (sunny smile cruising)..... i dont want to "scare" anybody with that description....just say, that these real unforseeable cutouts are a real threat to your health! So for me wrist, knee, head protection is a absolute must... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: @Dingfelder @LanghamP I agree that training might help for something which is at least a bit forseeable... Question: Did you ever had a real cutout? i mean one where the fuse burned, the mosfets shorted, something really unforseeable while you are cruising along and loving the nice ride and the sun shining! I had one while i was driving a steep hill with about 12-15kmh! BUT: I know that my wheel had a defect at that time, AND i knew that i am on the edge of its power, ergo: I espected the worse as i stupidly was pushing it up the hill with something in my mind like..."come on, you have done that hill before, pleeeaaaase get it!, dont cutout " what i want to say is i was especting the shutoff, even knowing that it NOW can happen (not the cruising happy sun situation)! Despite All This stomach rumors, the relativly slow speed, the foreseeable shutdown....i was not able to do ANYTHING....as the fuse blows! And believe me...crashes where i know they will happen..pottholes, driving mistakes, overconfidence,....i run or roll out or glide on my wrist ad knee protectors...or whatever i am able to do, as i am a quiet good driver meanwhile.... But here: Baam, just slamed onto the hill, broke 1-2 rips as i falled on my arm, (didnt even get the arms up)....the only thing i was able to do, was turn my had, that no front faceplant happens...thats all i got done, because cutouts are so unbelievable fast!!! And know imagine that situation....when you are in NO WAY prepared (sunny smile cruising)..... i dont want to "scare" anybody with that description....just say, that these real unforseeable cutouts are a real threat to your health! So for me wrist, knee, head protection is a absolute must... Totally agree with what @KingSong69 has written here. We've stated this in different threads but it's worth repeating often, as new people don't see the old stuff. A cutout is totally different than any other crash scenario. You hit a bump, ledge, etc. and are thrown from the wheel. Often you can run it out or fall in a semi-controlled manner. In all of these scenarios the pedals are still balancing and you have something to push off of in one way or another. But a cutout results in the pedals 'flopping' forward. The affects on the body are very different. You will be hitting the ground. This is why I laugh (internally) when people tell me with great confidence that they know how to roll or runs things out. And therefore they really don't need much safety gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: This is why I laugh (internally) when people tell me with great confidence that they know how to roll or runs things out. And therefore they really don't need much safety gear. Yip....i felt the same. Even absolut professional (and responsible)sellers like Ian from speedyfeet say that in their videos over and over again...cutout=immediately crash! Run out? you are not able to move your feet up before hitting the ground. Roll out? Yes...can luckily happen...if your smash is sidewards ;-) i would even describe your videoed fall of the oscillating issue not as a real cutout (dont get me wrong, you reacted perfect),...but even there, there was the bump, there was the wheel oscillating and only then came the fall...... On a cutout for example while talking and loughing with your buddies driving up some streets that would look totally different! And YOU know that ;-) Again: Wheeling is great and unbelievable fun, but as i get more experience more and more safety gets into my mind, so some safety gear i would say is definitely needed! I also hate to be geared up like Mad Max....but a skate helmet, wrist gurads and knee pads are mandatory........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Not all falls are cutouts. Most falls are not cutouts. The most damaging falls are cutouts. You can't train for a cutout because most of us do not have the reaction time. You lose 1/10 of a second for every decade of life, in addition to the 2/10 of the second you were born with. I estimate a cutout takes place in under <400 milliseconds from upright to down on ground. That means you probably cannot react fast enough if you're above age forty, but you'd probably be ok if you're in your twenties (and in my opinion might not even think it's a big deal). That also means faster wheels plant you faster because you're leaning more in order to overcome friction. It's negligent to not practice falling for "everything else but a cutout". Buying gear is just a click on Amazon but practicing falling requires dedication to the house of bruises and time of a few hours. Rather than just buy safety gear, let's make up hypothetical situation: You buy a wheel, say something Gotway unreliable. New state law requires you wear an airbag vest that, when jolted, drives a spike through your 4th vertebrae thereby rendering you dead and available for organ harvesting (rough state btw). How would you ride? Probably with utmost care. One wonders if you'd even buy a wheel as that doesn't sound like much fun. However, think of the way this would force you to ride and that's probably the way you should ride if you want to stay out of trouble. This way of thinking is the same as ATGATT except instead of riding with utmost care one, instead, rides with recklessness and depends on the gear to keep them out of trouble. How can you tell if someone rides with reckless abandon? Simple; they injure themselves a lot. I include myself with them. You need a multilayer approach to this <dangerous> hobby. It's not enough to buy just armor. It's not enough to buy the best most reliable wheel. It's not enough to train in falling. Riders need all three levels of protection. To neglect any is to invite a form of lackadaisical thinking. You cannot say, "well, this wouldn't help me in a cutout so I won't even bother to learn". To me, the original sin of wheels is obvious (which I'm guilty of many times). Stop doing the below and you won't get hurt. --Riding too fast on paved roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 39 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Yip....i felt the same. Even absolut professional (and responsible)sellers like Ian from speedyfeet say that in their videos over and over again...cutout=immediately crash! Run out? you are not able to move your feet up before hitting the ground. Roll out? Yes...can luckily happen...if your smash is sidewards ;-) i would even describe your videoed fall of the oscillating issue not as a real cutout (dont get me wrong, you reacted perfect),...but even there, there was the bump, there was the wheel oscillating and only then came the fall...... On a cutout for example while talking and loughing with your buddies driving up some streets that would look totally different! And YOU know that ;-) Again: Wheeling is great and unbelievable fun, but as i get more experience more and more safety gets into my mind, so some safety gear i would say is definitely needed! I also hate to be geared up like Mad Max....but a skate helmet, wrist gurads and knee pads are mandatory........ I think this is one of the best cutout videos - painful to watch but a good learning experience for everyone. Notice all the safety gear that he's wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 @Marty Backe yeah...and it can be even much worse! Even he managed 1 or 2 steps...(ninebot...not that fast!) Like in my story above....even exspecting a cutout and despite that not beeing able to make one step, just a slam on my left arm/ribs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I absolutely agree with @KingSong69, I've also had an unexpected cut out and I've also stupidly clipped a peddle on a bollard, in both of those situations I was on the ground before I even knew it was happening, in the case of the bollard I was going slow enough to have, in theory, run off easily. I was, in both cases, able to turn my head to the side before hitting the ground but that was the sum total of what I had time to do. When I was learning, loss of control would be progressive, I.e. I'd wobble more and more or start to slide, in those cases I was able to to take action to fall safely or run off every time with no problem. We had a guy on the forum last year (wish I could find his posts) who, basically, said we were all a load of wimps, safety gear was completely pointless if you knew how how to fall like he did. He isn't around on this forum anymore - I wonder why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 57 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I think this is one of the best cutout videos - painful to watch but a good learning experience for everyone. Notice all the safety gear that he's wearing. I don't think that was a cutout; I think he was just riding the tilt-back (note the last words), saw the pavement and got spooked, then ran it off or tried too. In contrast, I believe this is exactly how a cutout looks and feels like, along with the resulting damage to your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TremF Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: @Dingfelder @LanghamP I dont want to "scare" anybody with that description....just say, that these real unforseeable cutouts are a real threat to your health! So for me wrist, knee, head protection is a absolute must... Definitely this^^^ Previously I have had stationary cutout/drops where I was able to step off and one where I stopped on a hill, turned the wheel in the direction I wanted to head and it just rolled me forward but thankfully as I had pretty much stopped to turn it wasn't as bad as the proper cut out I had last week. I dropped off a very low curb (an inch if that) and heard a crack. Thinking it was the case or pedal I stopped & took a look but didn't see anything so I started off again very slowly thinking I'd be ready if anything happened. Definitely when the wheel properly cuts out it rolls forward differently to catching a pot hole or not quite getting up a too high curb where you can step off. The case just rolls forward and slams you into the ground fast! I hit my head, hurt my chest somehow, snapped both straps off my smart watch (it has antennas built into the straps so not cheap & easy to replace), soft tissue damage on my right hand & wrist and fractured my radial head in my right elbow. It was so fast I couldn't react even though I expected something to happen. As I generally ride quite slow & careful I was stupid & didn't have any protective gear on. A pot hole or curb I'd have been fine with, and I haven't had many in my 2 years riding, but I got a dodgy spare battery for my Ninebot, over a year ago, which dropped me but not as hard as my ACM did last week - I'd hate to have that with the size & weight of my Monster! I'm looking at some less noticeable gear now. Ian & Jon wore D30 stuff for their 1000 miler & it's not as bulky as usual elbow pads but the top also has shoulder and back protection (chest too I think) & the bottoms have hip as well as knee protection. There's also some D30 wrist guards I'm looking at but all these come at a price. Another, cheaper, option I've looked at is a hoodie with built in elbow, shoulder and back protection & jeans with Kevlar & knee and hip protection. The only thing I'm struggling with is the helmet sizing I want to find somewhere I can try some on. I want a two piecer so I can have the lid for work commutes and the front piece for longer, possibly quicker, rides. Something like Ian & Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 hours ago, KingSong69 said: i dont want to "scare" anybody with that description....just say, that these real unforseeable cutouts are a real threat to your health! So for me wrist, knee, head protection is a absolute must... I agree, and wear helmet, wrist, knee and elbow protectors, and bought some protective shorts with hip and thigh padding too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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