Marty Backe Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: It's definitely looking good with those heat sleeves! I think separating the high voltage (high temp motor) wiring from the low voltage (hall sensor wiring) is wise considering what we have seen when things go molten. Separating the three motor wires from each other also adds some safety considering they are getting hot enough to melt their insulation and solder joints at the connectors (before they started crimping things). Unfortunately even with all these countermeasures, the weak spot will be at the axle where the wires all come together. The axle metal may act as a heat sink somewhat, but I would be curious to see what the cabling from @Marty Backe's ACM inside the axle shaft looks like to find out whether things melted at that point. Another weak spot could be at the control board motor wire solder points. We've seen KingSong employ metal standoff screw connectors in order to avoid solder joints there. I wonder when Gotway might move in that direction. I believe EUC Extreme had a solder melting issue at the control board before so it's not unheard of. Thinking further about Marty replacing his cabling to have a spare motor - I wonder if the wires shorting together may have also fried the hall sensors necessitating their replacement as well. Sending high voltage through a hall sensor cable likely cooked them? I peeled back the cable wrap on the cables all the way back to the axle. There were no signs of heat stress. It appears that the cabling only gets really hot in the vicinity of the cable connectors. Seems like the connectors offer higher resistance which makes them extremely hot and the heat travels a few inches down the cabling on each side. This is good news in that we don't have to worry about the cables melting near the axle. @Rehab1 has instrumented the cabling near the axle and connectors so we may get some empirical evidence that backs my theory up. When my motor cables melted they did melt into one of the hall sensor cables. I imagine that smoked the hall sensor - thus the need for a new motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: When my motor cables melted they did melt into one of the hall sensor cables. I imagine the smoked the hall sensor - thus the need for a new motor. Does you wheel turn by hand? If so we can check all 3 of your hall sensors without removing the motor covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 25 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Does you wheel turn by hand? If so we can check all 3 of your hall sensors without removing the motor covers. Yes, once I separated all of the melted cables the wheel turns freely. After I put in the new control board and turned on the wheel I received the repeating "Failed Hall Sensor" beep message: two beeps, 1/2 second pause, 2 beeps, 1/2 second pause .... So I don't think there's a need to check the hall sensors. However, I would be interested in hearing how you would check them, if it's not too involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: So I don't think there's a need to check the hall sensors. However, I would be interested in hearing how you would check them, if it's not too involved. I am going to configure my hall sensor tester/demonstrator tomorrow so it has longer leads and then try it on my ACM to show you how it works. If your game I can then ship it out to you free of charge so you can test your sensors to determine which one is faulty. The tester uses only 5 volts and your hall sensor connector will be completely detached from the main board so no worries. Should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 15 hours ago, Rehab1 said: I am going to configure my hall sensor tester/demonstrator tomorrow so it has longer leads and then try it on my ACM to show you how it works. If your game I can then ship it out to you free of charge so you can test your sensors to determine which one is faulty. The tester uses only 5 volts and your hall sensor connector will be completely detached from the main board so no worries. Should be fun. This looks very cool. Obviously it's academic since I won't be attempting a motor repair (I saw someone else attempt that), but I'll try it (and shoot a video of course) on my wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: This looks very cool. Obviously it's academic since I won't be attempting a motor repair (I saw someone else attempt that), but I'll try it (and shoot a video of course) on my wheel. Wonder who you are referring to? Perfect. Yes just for academic purposes. I will begin tearing into my ACM shortly. Before reattaching the hall sensor connector to the MB I will test it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Marty Backe said: This looks very cool. Obviously it's academic since I won't be attempting a motor repair (I saw someone else attempt that), but I'll try it (and shoot a video of course) on my wheel. Sorry Marty but it did not work as planned. I tried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Finally done and it works! I'll post a video tomorrow. My wife is pissed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Here is the installation of my new ACM Board and bullet connectors. It has been 4 months. I need to get out and ride this machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Impressive work you did there. A lot of detail work with all the cable management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 59 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Here is the installation of my new ACM Board and bullet connectors. It has been 4 months. I need to get out and ride this machine! I wish I could give 10 reps, that was very well done, filmed, and thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 54 minutes ago, steve454 said: I wish I could give 10 reps, that was very well done, filmed, and thought out. My EUC-IQ definitely went up a few points after watching it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Here is the installation of my new ACM Board and bullet connectors. It has been 4 months. I need to get out and ride this machine! Great video. Impressive amount of work that's gone into that wheel. Looking forward very much to the temperature data. I'm predicting that the connector area will be hotter than the axle area. I'm amount 80% complete rebuilding my ACM. It's amazing how familiar you can get with your wheel by the act of replacing the motor. Nothing's a mystery anymore and I no longer fret about potentially having to replace the tire, etc. Hopefully I'll be able to power it up Friday and it'll self-balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Finally done and it works! I'll post a video tomorrow. My wife is pissed! Love the look of your wheel. You should have Steam Punked it just a little bit to complete the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Great video. Impressive amount of work that's gone into that wheel. Looking forward very much to the temperature data. I'm predicting that the connector area will be hotter than the axle area. Thanks! I will be fully gearing up during testing. I offered a Bell Super 3R helmet to go along with my other gear. There is a large 2 mile proving test track near me that was originally owned by Dana Corp. I can rent the track. I'm sure there will be a liability contract I'll need to sign if I go this route. 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I'm amount 80% complete rebuilding my ACM. It's amazing how familiar you can get with your wheel by the act of replacing the motor. Nothing's a mystery anymore and I no longer fret about potentially having to replace the tire, etc. Excellent! Whe does your new motor arrive? It is an educatioal fun experience! It is best that we have some comprehensive knowledge about the mechanics and electrical components of our wheels. 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Love the look of your wheel. You should have Steam Punked it just a little bit to complete the picture How about steam punking myself with safety gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Thanks! I will be fully gearing up during testing. I offered a Bell Super 3R helmet to go along with my other gear. There is a large 2 mile proving test track near me that was originally owned by Dana Corp. I can rent the track. I'm sure there will be a liability contract I'll need to sign if I go this route. Excellent! Whe does your new motor arrive? It is an educatioal fun experience! It is best that we have some comprehensive knowledge about the mechanics and electrical components of our wheels. How about steam punking myself with safety gear. I love that Steam Punk outfit. Can you imagine the looks that you'd get riding around in that When I say that I'm 80% done, I just have to do the wiring. The motor arrived earlier in the week and I installed it last night and put the shell back together. I should be riding my ACM on Saturday if the Gotway Gods are favoring me right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: When I say that I'm 80% done, I just have to do the wiring. The motor arrived earlier in the week and I installed it last night and put the shell back together. I should be riding my ACM on Saturday if the Gotway Gods are favoring me right now Awesome! Now you have lots of wheels functioning again! Who sold you the motor, Ian or Jason? Did you solder the wires together like you had talked about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 @Rehab1 Just for your interest...just saw this batterie installation video on Ks18s...where you can see the motor cables: The actually did the 3 (really fat) motor cables through one axle...and the sensor ones through the other axle! and And before someone complains that they just use a 3 phase 60amp motor connector....KS is by far not pushing the amounts of amps through their wheels as GW does.... I hope this weekend i can open my Ks18s and check the AWG of the motorcables...if i have the time ... Sometimes there are some other things as EUC's in the way...damned :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: @Rehab1 Just for your interest...just saw this batterie installation video on Ks18s...where you can see the motor cables: The actually did the 3 (really fat) motor cables through one axle...and the sensor ones through the other axle! and And before someone complains that they just use a 3 phase 60amp motor connector....KS is by far not pushing the amounts of amps through their wheels as GW does.... I hope this weekend i can open my Ks18s and check the AWG of the motorcables...if i have the time ... Sometimes there are some other things as EUC's in the way...damned :-) Thanks for posting those videos. Love the use of both ends of the axle I really wish Gotway would steal some of their manufacturing designs That being said, they still depend too much on individual skills and practices. How much tape is used and where it's placed will vary by individual for sure. And I'm surprised that they don't utilize an assembly fixture while working on it (those batteries keep moving around as the flip the wheel around). How many times (off camera) have the batteries fallen out. And at the end when the 3rd battery is being installed, how many times has the wheel fallen over? But in general I do like the KingSong build quality. The primary reason I can't get myself to buy a 16S or 18S is that speed limiter once you've reached a certain battery level. If I'm at 25% battery on a >1600wh machine and am limited to jogging speed then I want nothing to do with that wheel Still waiting for your review of the 18S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 43 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Awesome! Now you have lots of wheels functioning again! Who sold you the motor, Ian or Jason? Did you solder the wires together like you had talked about? I bought it from Ian. I thought maybe I'd get a little discount or something considering many people would think my failure (melted wires) might fall under that category of warranty. I am disappointed with Ian's support in this regard. I'm glad that @Jason McNeil is now selling Gotway wheels because I think his service is much better, at least for Americans. I will be soldering the wires tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Still waiting for your review of the 18S Like said..... (unfortunately) there is a life beside my wheels :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4tchmo Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 42 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: The primary reason I can't get myself to buy a 16S or 18S is that speed limiter once you've reached a certain battery level. If I'm at 25% battery on a >1600wh machine and am limited to jogging speed then I want nothing to do with that wheel Didn't realize that was a feature on the KingSongs. The KS16S manual says low battery protection kicks in at 40%, but it doesn't specify how much the limit or limit/battery ratio is. That make sense on the safety side of things to a degree, but I guess it really depends on what the limit is like. Anyone have more info on this? Would be curious about specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks for posting those videos. Love the use of both ends of the axle I really wish Gotway would steal some of their manufacturing designs That being said, they still depend too much on individual skills and practices. How much tape is used and where it's placed will vary by individual for sure. And I'm surprised that they don't utilize an assembly fixture while working on it (those batteries keep moving around as the flip the wheel around). How many times (off camera) have the batteries fallen out. And at the end when the 3rd battery is being installed, how many times has the wheel fallen over? But in general I do like the KingSong build quality. The primary reason I can't get myself to buy a 16S or 18S is that speed limiter once you've reached a certain battery level. If I'm at 25% battery on a >1600wh machine and am limited to jogging speed then I want nothing to do with that wheel Still waiting for your review of the 18S It's a shame they chose not to include an integrated handle on the 18s like the MSuper V3 ... all that wasted space inside the frame that could be better utilised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 57 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I bought it from Ian. I thought maybe I'd get a little discount or something considering many people would think my failure (melted wires) might fall under that category of warranty. I am disappointed with Ian's support in this regard. I'm glad that @Jason McNeil is now selling Gotway wheels because I think his service is much better, at least for Americans. I will be soldering the wires tonight I have thought about that before....as you have stated that in another thread! You have to pay board and motor on yourself? No warranty like on meepmeep? Nothing??? Come on, Ian! I would have guessed that , as a design failure and not the first fault of this type, this is definitely done by the Seller/Gotway, even as Ian had an excellent reputation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Just now, litewave said: It's a shame they chose not to include an integrated handle on the 18s like the MSuper V3 ... all that wasted space inside the frame that could be better utilised. They are producing a new shell for the 18S...on FB there is a photo of a -very early- prototype! it will be 16b/14d style then, also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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