Gotway- How to change Motor Connectors

[Rehab1]

57 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Great video!  It's good that Gotway keeps upgrading the connectors!

Unfortunately if GW does not supply the male counter part connector with the replacement board then all 6 bullet connectors will need to be replaced. This means that some recipients of new boards may have to take a crash course in soldering or purchase an expensive crimping tool.

Not to sound cynical but a suboptimal solder or crimp connection at the motor wire bullet unions could exasperate the overheating of wires and cause more fried conponents and the possibility of accidents!

[MaxLinux]

3 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

The solution to the potential over heating wire issue would be some type of temperature sensor that lets us know to stop pushing our EUC up that steep hill.

I agree this is essential, but even more importantly, 1. improve the design so the wires don't overheat, 2. withstand more heat, 3. increase the limits of steep hill it can handle before risk of wire/connector melting.I think it's definitely possible, and I also think Gotway and King Song (maybe others too) will keep trying, and eventually succeed in producing the next generation/performance level of EUCs.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

My Temperature Data Logger is in full operation. Just waiting to install the new ACM board tomorrow before really running it through the paces! One probe is installed beside a bullet connector and the other where the motor wires exit the axle shaft.

That tube on the side gives me a great idea - if you put one of these...

... on the other side, then you could ride through deep   

Oops... is it too soon?

 

[MaxLinux]

On 7/9/2017 at 6:52 AM, Pard said:

I am new to this forum, and have noticed that there seems to be way to high expectations from these wheels.

In a relatively short period since EUCs were introduced, users quickly began testing their limits. I think the "too high expectations" came from people believing EUCs could be developed to higher levels. Just like with cars or many other things, enthusiasts try to push beyond what is accepted as "normal" capabilities. The evolution of what EUCs can do has been amazing considering the short amount of time that has passed. The limits of the current generation of EUCs are now well known. I think it's only a matter of time until solutions are found to let EUCs jump to the next level.

[meepmeepmayer]

1. You don't get anything for not having high expectations.
2. Having design and quality standards that are obvious to the average Western amateur isn't exactly high expectations. This thread is literally about how the manufacturer can't do a basic electrical connection and proposes a dangerous alternative.

I know the comment was more that, pragmatically, you can't expect more than there is, but still, no reason to accept that.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, MaxLinux said:

I think it's definitely possible, and I also think Gotway and King Song (maybe others too) will keep trying, and eventually succeed in producing the next generation/performance level of EUCs.

Kingsong? Yes, they seem to be on the right way.

Gotway? Either the same, actually competent people who designed the wheels design new ones that the company can impossibly botch in manufacturing and that have no fundamental errors; but if not, it will go the same way as it does now (constant "disimprovements" by people not knowing what they are doing). I'm missing a learning process here.

I have (a bit delicate) hopes for Rockwheel, the guy from them showed their custom designed motors. If that's not a good sign I don't know what is. And looking forward to see how it goes with IPS.

Finally, let's not forget to laugh about Solowheel once again

[MaxLinux]

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Gotway? Either the same, actually competent people who designed the wheels design new ones that the company can impossibly botch in manufacturing and that have no fundamental errors; but if not, it will go the same way as it does now (constant "disimprovements" by people not knowing what they are doing). I'm missing a learning process here.

Yes, EUCs have reached a level at which the "connect a bunch of parts together and see what happens, then react to the problems found by the users" method of development is no longer viable. Real engineering, real testing, real quality control are mandatory for success.

[MaxLinux]

28 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I have (a bit delicate) hopes for Rockwheel, the guy from them showed their custom designed motors. If that's not a good sign I don't know what is.

Yes, that's a good sign! Do you have a link to more information about this?

[meepmeepmayer]

46 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

Yes, EUCs have reached a level at which the "connect a bunch of parts together and see what happens, then react to the problems found by the users" method of development is no longer viable. Real engineering, real testing, real quality control are mandatory for success.

Exactly, at 30 km/h that really does no longer work.

43 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

Yes, that's a good sign! Do you have a link to more information about this?

It's not much, and not sure how much it means, but he gives some info starting here:

 

[MaxLinux]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Exactly, at 30 km/h that really does no longer work.

It's not much, and not sure how much it means, but he gives some info starting here:

 

Very interesting! Thank you!

[Rehab1]

7 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

That tube on the side gives me a great idea - if you put one of these...

... on the other side, then you could ride through deep   

Oops... is it too soon?

 

Funny!  Were ok now! Unfortunately I did loose a sentimental piece hanging from the rear view mirror that I am trying to track down. Unfortunately the salvage company has already picked up the truck.

[Rehab1]

I received this reply from Ian this morning. It appears the larger 5mm bullet connectors and the clear insulation tubing are performing adequately and not creating any overheating issues at the connector sites at this time. Not sure why he mentioned last week there was some visible heat distortion of the clear tubing insulation. Maybe after further assessment he was mistaken. I just don't like the insulation method he used. Sorry Ian!

Ian Sampson (Speedy Feet) 11 Jul, 11:26 BST Daniel: Thanks for the info. If those new protectors melt I will let you know, all good so far! Ian Speedy Feet www.SpeedyFeet.co.uk +44(0)1594546477 Unit C, Building 13.2 Vantage Point Business Village Mitcheldean Gloucestershire GL170DD

[meepmeepmayer]

New info, nice! Let's see if this works out.

But the entire wheel held together by one cable tie still is not really anything but ridiculous, even if it should work (I have my doubts, but you'd have to test to find out, and don't feel like doing such a thing to my wheel only to get the predictable result).

@Rehab1 You yourself as a non-professional (well, one could argue about that) used real heatshrink that stays in place by itself, and not just one layer. So why can't Gotway tell their dealers to do it properly?

Still wondering about what temperature that cable tie is rated for (lollllll). Quick google says, standard cable ties don't even go to 100°C. Which is like half the temperature where the wire insulation would melt... which, as we know, can happen.

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You yourself as a non-professional (well, one could argue about that) used real heatshrink that stays in place by itself, and not just one layer. So why can't Gotway tell their dealers to do it properly?

I am simply a cross between MacGyver and the Absent Minded Professor. Let's see how my high temperature wire sleeves work. They should act as great motor wire separators with a heat protective value that far exceeds any material used so far.

[Rehab1]

My high temperature wire sleeves just arrived and I decided to subject the material to over 1900 degrees C  (3600 degrees F) using a propane blow torch. You be the judge but I am thrilled with the outcome and will definitely be applying this material over my motor wire bullet connectors!

 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

11 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My high temperature wire sleeves just arrived and I decided to subject the material to over 1900 degrees C  (3600 degrees F) using a propane blow torch. You be the judge but I am thrilled with the outcome and will definitely be applying this material over my motor wire bullet connectors!

 

You say in your video that there is no way we will ever subject our motors to 1900°C... But if anyone can, I have faith that YOU will be able to do it!  

[Rehab1]

16 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

You say in your video that there is no way we will ever subject our motors to 1900°C... But if anyone can, I have faith that YOU will be able to do it!  

At those extreme temperatures  the plastic shells would melt and probably cause an internal fire leading to a Kaboom!

@Marty Backe You really need to try this sleeve! https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HIYOB1Y/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

At those extreme temperatures  the plastic shells would melt and probably cause an internal fire leading to a Kaboom!

@Marty Backe You really need to try this sleeve! https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HIYOB1Y/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for the link. I was wondering where I might get insulating sleeves. But right now I'm sticking with my plan to implement wire separators. I think the only reason these sleeves are used is because Gotway does not implement mechanical separation between the wires, because they are lazy manufacturer designers.

Since I'm a woodworker I am going to fabricate wood channels which will keep the wires separated even if the insulation evaporates from extreme heat 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Since I'm a woodworker I am going to fabricate wood channels which will keep the wires separated even if the insulation evaporates from extreme heat 

Ummm... You're putting kindling into a Gotway?

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Since I'm a woodworker I am going to fabricate wood channels which will keep the wires separated even if the insulation evaporates from extreme heat 

Sound interesting!  Looking forward to seeing your end result!

 

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Ummm... You're putting kindling into a Gotway?

The wood will likely come from BrokeBacke Mountain. Very strong and able to withstand a serious pulsating electrical charge! 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Ummm... You're putting kindling into a Gotway?

Wood burns at >200 degrees Celsius. So I should be good. But that is a funny image that you just stuck in my head 

[meepmeepmayer]

1. Do these wire sleeves work if the heat comes from within too?
2. Just make sure you don't thermally insulate the connectors too much. Although probably very little heat goes through the plastic and most of it through the wire itself to the motor.

[Rehab1]

50 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

1. Do these wire sleeves work if the heat comes from within too?
2. Just make sure you don't thermally insulate the connectors too much. Although probably very little heat goes through the plastic and most of it through the wire itself to the motor.

To over- insulate or not over/ insulate, that is the question.  The data logger will help me keep track of the temps under the sleeves.

Thanks for the impetus to conduct a flame test on the inner core of the covering.  This material is tough! BTW your name is hard to pronounce.

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

It's definitely looking good with those heat sleeves!  I think separating the high voltage (high temp motor) wiring from the low voltage (hall sensor wiring) is wise considering what we have seen when things go molten.  Separating the three motor wires from each other also adds some safety considering they are getting hot enough to melt their insulation and solder joints at the connectors (before they started crimping things).  Unfortunately even with all these countermeasures, the weak spot will be at the axle where the wires all come together.  The axle metal may act as a heat sink somewhat, but I would be curious to see what the cabling from @Marty Backe's ACM inside the axle shaft looks like to find out whether things melted at that point.  

Another weak spot could be at the control board motor wire solder points.  We've seen KingSong employ metal standoff screw connectors in order to avoid solder joints there.  I wonder when Gotway might move in that direction.  I believe EUC Extreme had a solder melting issue at the control board before so it's not unheard of.

Thinking further about Marty replacing his cabling to have a spare motor - I wonder if the wires shorting together may have also fried the hall sensors necessitating their replacement as well.  Sending high voltage through a hall sensor cable likely cooked them?

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

To over- insulate or not over/ insulate, that is the question.  The data logger will help me keep track of the temps under the sleeves.

Thanks for the impetus to conduct a flame test on the inner core of the covering.  This material is tough! BTW your name is hard to pronounce.

Cool, thanks! Just realized the stuff is actual fiberglass mat, not some fuzzy regular cloth (which was why I asked in the first place). Should be very resistant then.

And yep, in hindsight I could have chosen a better name. Didn't expect to end up posting here so much, just some questions on which wheel to buy; so took the first nonsense-from-the-past name that came to my mind.