EWheels 84v Fast Charger Review

[US69]

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

According to their website, the highest voltage unit that they actually sell is 72 volts.

Thats nominal voltage, Marty, 84volts is 72volts nominal, (3,6volts nominal=4,2 volts charged)

Actuallz it would be also more correct to call a 67volt wheel a 60volt wheel...

 

The mentioned charger is the best you can get on the market.

If you want another fast charger which is reliable and good, i would go for a 1radwerkstatt fast charger.

They are not adjustable to 80/90/100%, but best quality available.

Edited October 15, 2017 by KingSong69

[steve454]

@Marty Backe  if you had the charge doctor duo you could use both of your 84v chargers to quick charge.

https://www.ewheels.com/product/chargedoctor-duo-for-v5f-king-song-gotway-inmotion-v8/

That would be 4 amps charge rate?

Edited October 15, 2017 by steve454

[Hansolo]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

According to their website, the highest voltage unit that they actually sell is 72 volts.

There is 3 models:

24V 15 A up to 30V
48V 8A up to 52V
72V 5A up to 103V

I use the last with my MS3+ 1600 with 84V battery

[US69]

11 minutes ago, Hansolo said:

There is 3 models:

24V 15 A up to 30V
48V 8A up to 52V
72V 5A up to 103V

I use the last with my MS3+ 1600 with 84V battery

Yip, and this last one can also be used with 60/67volt wheels.

You just need an adapter for the different charge port plugs.....

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

@Jason McNeil might want to check with his supplier to see if these chargers can be beefed up as it seems there is a weak component here.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@Jason McNeil might want to check with his supplier to see if these chargers can be beefed up as it seems there is a weak component here.

I did tell Jason of my failure, with pictures.

5 hours ago, steve454 said:

@Marty Backe  if you had the charge doctor duo you could use both of your 84v chargers to quick charge.

https://www.ewheels.com/product/chargedoctor-duo-for-v5f-king-song-gotway-inmotion-v8/

That would be 4 amps charge rate?

I'm going to try and fix the charger first since that's the optimal solution. I just need to find out the spec's on the replacement thermister.

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Thats nominal voltage, Marty, 84volts is 72volts nominal, (3,6volts nominal=4,2 volts charged)

Actuallz it would be also more correct to call a 67volt wheel a 60volt wheel...

 

The mentioned charger is the best you can get on the market.

If you want another fast charger which is reliable and good, i would go for a 1radwerkstatt fast charger.

They are not adjustable to 80/90/100%, but best quality available.

Thanks for the info. My preferred approach is to replace the thermister since that's much cheaper than buying a completely new charger.

[steve454]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm going to try and fix the charger first since that's the optimal solution. I just need to find out the spec's on the replacement thermister.

That should probably be easy.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, steve454 said:

That should probably be easy.

That's a joke right 

[radial]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

My preferred approach is to replace the thermister since that's much cheaper than buying a completely new charger.

1

No chance you could get a new unit from the supplier?  That's my preferred approach when things fail.  

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, radial said:

No chance you could get a new unit from the supplier?  That's my preferred approach when things fail.  

I don't know if there was any warranty with this unit since it was provided 'free' with the purchase of a new wheel. I asked Jason if he might be able to provide me the part number for the thermister. Waiting to see if he responds.

[Jason McNeil]

I've been in communication with our Charger supplier about this report. We've had two cases of the NTC component failing, but it hasn't been general or widespread. Based on the specs of the component, it is operating close to the upper limit of it's design threshold. 

There's good detailed factual response from manufacturer, worth quoting in full, although I don't quite buy the ventilation theory, there's something like >100ft³/min of air flowing through there. 

Quote

 

NTC is used to suppress surge current when power the charger. The NTC model we use is 5D-15, which can bear max 6A steady-state current (see picture 1).

For the charger with specs: input 110Vac, output 84.2V1-5A. The max input current is 4.6-5.5A when charger works with output current 5A. If the charger works in a poor heat dissipation for a long time, NTC could easily be unstable and even damaged.

Thus for this JR-450 with 84.5V/5A in your warehouse, we suggest make the NCT short-circuit. In this case, the chargers can work normally. Solution for the next orders: Currently the NCT is lined up in the AC wire (see picture 2). For future orders, NTC will be moved to the point between rectifier bridge and filter capacitor (see picture 3). In this position, it can also perform surge current suppression, but the flowing current is only 2-3A, surely the charger works fine

 

[CaptainKBLS]

16 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

I've been in communication with our Charger supplier about this report. We've had two cases of the NTC component failing, but it hasn't been general or widespread. Based on the specs of the component, it is operating close to the upper limit of it's design threshold. 

There's good detailed factual response from manufacturer, worth quoting in full, although I don't quite buy the ventilation theory, there's something like >100ft³/min of air flowing through there. 

Riding this thread a bit.

I got the fast charger from Jason with my Gotway several months ago.  What I notice now is the charger didn't seem to go to zero and shutoff.  It stays .42 or close to it but doesn't seem to go to shutoff.

Any ideas?

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

I've been in communication with our Charger supplier about this report. We've had two cases of the NTC component failing, but it hasn't been general or widespread. Based on the specs of the component, it is operating close to the upper limit of it's design threshold. 

There's good detailed factual response from manufacturer, worth quoting in full, although I don't quite buy the ventilation theory, there's something like >100ft³/min of air flowing through there. 

Thanks for the info Jason. Yeah, short circuiting the NTC leads will make the charger work, and I'm going to do that. Of course the purpose of the NTC is to reduce stress on the other downstream components, so I'll find out if the charger blows a gasket somewhere else down the line 

I agree with you sentiment regards the air flow. There's a lot of air flowing through this unit and it runs nice and cool. They just need to use a beefier NTC or move it as is their plan.

[Jason McNeil]

On 24/10/2017 at 9:23 PM, CaptainKBLS said:

What I notice now is the charger didn't seem to go to zero and shutoff.  It stays .42 or close to it but doesn't seem to go to shutoff.

Is this that the fan continually stays on when the set voltage is reached? Is the '.42' the current value? The charger is using 5W of power in standby mode, so it's possible that this is what this figure represents

 

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Is this that the fan continually stays on when the set voltage is reached? Is the '.42' the current value? The charger is using 5W of power in standby mode, so it's possible that this is what this figure represents

 

On my charger all the values always go to 0.00, so either there's a problem with the wheel or charger.

[CaptainKBLS]

6 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Is this that the fan continually stays on when the set voltage is reached? Is the '.42' the current value? The charger is using 5W of power in standby mode, so it's possible that this is what this figure represents

 

Yes the current value is generally less than .5, the fan is on, the led is on.  It's possible that the wheel is bad since I've crashed a few times on rough trails.  I give it an extra hour or two than I just pull the plug.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

Yes the current value is generally less than .5, the fan is on, the led is on.  It's possible that the wheel is bad since I've crashed a few times on rough trails.  I give it an extra hour or two than I just pull the plug.

What does the wheel say? If the wheel reports less than 100%, use your Gotway charger. If you still can't get a 100% charge than you know there's an issue with the batteries.

[CaptainKBLS]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

What does the wheel say? If the wheel reports less than 100%, use your Gotway charger. If you still can't get a 100% charge than you know there's an issue with the batteries.

Thank you.  I'll try that.  Jason's fast charger is great but loud so you definitely notice when it doesn't shut off.  The Gotway charger feels super hot and makes me nervous.

You guys rock.  I'm a lazy user and don't pay attention to the details.

[Jason McNeil]

8 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

Thank you.  I'll try that.  Jason's fast charger is great but loud so you definitely notice when it doesn't shut off.  The Gotway charger feels super hot and makes me nervous.

Let's get a replacement sent out. The fan should most certainly shutdown when it completes, something's not quite right there. 

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

Thank you.  I'll try that.  Jason's fast charger is great but loud so you definitely notice when it doesn't shut off.  The Gotway charger feels super hot and makes me nervous.

You guys rock.  I'm a lazy user and don't pay attention to the details.

All the Gotway chargers get too hot to touch. But I've never had an issue with them. And FWIW, the KingSong charger also gets very hot.

[Marty Backe]

25 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

Thank you.  I'll try that.  Jason's fast charger is great but loud so you definitely notice when it doesn't shut off.  The Gotway charger feels super hot and makes me nervous.

You guys rock.  I'm a lazy user and don't pay attention to the details.

One other piece of trivia. My KingSong charger will not charge by KS14C beyond 97%. I have to use a charger from one of my generic wheels to get the wheel to a 100% charge. So sometimes chargers have issues.

[gonnabiff]

 

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

My KingSong charger will not charge by KS14C beyond 97%.

When using a stock charger, how do you assess percentage of final charge?

My KS-16S arrived with 7/9 rim green lights. I plugged in charger. After 1-2 hours I saw that charger light had turned from red to green. And then 9/9 rim green lights lit.

And the wheel still shows 9/9 after an hour-and-a-half moving a mile-and-a-half according to DarknessBot, but I'm not sure I accept the fluctuating voltages reported by DB or can interpret load vs. resting.

For now I'm good with stock charger on my modest 840Wh battery. I do understand increased battery longevity with <100% charge. See how much I ride, always available accessory in future.

[WARPed1701D]

37 minutes ago, gonnabiff said:

 

When using a stock charger, how do you assess percentage of final charge?

My KS-16S arrived with 7/9 rim green lights. I plugged in charger. After 1-2 hours I saw that charger light had turned from red to green. And then 9/9 rim green lights lit.

And the wheel still shows 9/9 after an hour-and-a-half moving a mile-and-a-half according to DarknessBot, but I'm not sure I accept the fluctuating voltages reported by DB or can interpret load vs. resting.

For now I'm good with stock charger on my modest 840Wh battery. I do understand increased battery longevity with <100% charge. See how much I ride, always available accessory in future.

If KingSong is like Inmotion then the voltage at which the wheel reports 100% charge is actually below the max voltage the cells can hold. My V8 is an 84V wheel if each cell is at 4.2V but the wheel will read 100% for any voltage above 82.5V (4.125v / cell). Only when the pack voltage drops below that (2 or 3 miles of riding) will it register less than 100%. This is why you always seem to go further in the first few tens of percent of charge.

The charger light will go green once the charger is in the constant voltage decreasing current stage and the current has fallen below a certain amount. On my V8 charger that is 400mA (as specified on the charger). The charger is still supplying power at this stage though and if left connected the cells will absorb the final few watts of power and then balance. You should do this every 10 or so charges to ensure each cell in the pack has fully saturated. All other times you can charge whenever you want for as long as you want. Li-Ion has no memory to worry about and as you already mentioned you will see some increased pack longevity from smaller more frequent charges that do not charge to 100%.

[Marty Backe]

56 minutes ago, gonnabiff said:

 

When using a stock charger, how do you assess percentage of final charge?

My KS-16S arrived with 7/9 rim green lights. I plugged in charger. After 1-2 hours I saw that charger light had turned from red to green. And then 9/9 rim green lights lit.

And the wheel still shows 9/9 after an hour-and-a-half moving a mile-and-a-half according to DarknessBot, but I'm not sure I accept the fluctuating voltages reported by DB or can interpret load vs. resting.

For now I'm good with stock charger on my modest 840Wh battery. I do understand increased battery longevity with <100% charge. See how much I ride, always available accessory in future.

I connect to the wheel with either WheelLog or the KingSong app. They both show me a percent charged level. If you have a fully working charger its LED will turn green at 100% which will also be reflected in the app.

The LEDs on the wheel are very coarse in their nature so I can easily see you still showing 9/9 after an hour-and-a-half of riding (slow riding I assume). The the KingSong app can be trusted. The steadiest measurement can be had by laying the wheel on it's side and then turning on the wheel.

[gonnabiff]

30 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

The charger light will go green once the charger is in the constant voltage decreasing current stage and the current has fallen below a certain amount. On my V8 charger that is 400mA (as specified on the charger). The charger is still supplying power at this stage though and if left connected the cells will absorb the final few watts of power and then balance.. You should do this every 10 or so charges to ensure each cell in the pack has fully saturated.

Ah, so perhaps every 10 charges leave charger connected overnight even though the charger light has turned green?

And I don't really understand "balance." Can the cells be balanced at a voltage less than their design capacity? I.e, if deliberately charged to only 80 or 90% of max voltage, for instance, but current is supplied at that voltage for many hours?