Would a wheel like this prevent faceplants?

[atdlzpae]

10 hours ago, Rencocom said:

I made an account cause I wanted to comment on this thread. I don't get why you guys are sh*ting on this guy's idea. I think it is a step in the right direction to improving EUC safety. Sure it's ugly now, but it's just a prototype experiment. Let's face it, EUCs can fail. A wire can come loose, the motor can be overpowered, and components inside fail.

So my idea is when the wheel senses it's about to fail, it deploys some kind of wheel that pops out in front to prevent a faceplant. I think that would be a cool idea if implemented correctly. I know people are saying it's ghetto, but it's because they haven't seen a wheel that is able to do it and not look ugly. I guarantee if this type of wheel existed, it would be the only wheel people would be buying.

I don't get why you guys are sh*ting on this guy's idea. - Since when disagreeing == shitting???

What's your mileage on an EUC? How many faceplants did you experience? Because my internal EUC simulation says that any kind of additional wheel, even a popping one wouldn't help much. And what if it pops out without reason causing you to faceplant?

A wire can come loose, the motor can be overpowered, and components inside fail. - you didn't mention the most common, most important cause of failure - a human error. If the wheel is in the air because you rode over a bump, a popping "safety wheel" will only make it worse.

EUC's are very reliable. Look at the forum - every time there is a topic about a faceplant 90% it's "I rode into a bump" or "I overleant a wheel".

10 hours ago, Rencocom said:

Wouldn't you want some kind of safety measure to protect you when that happens kind of like airbags?

We ride with such protection - helmet and protectors. Some even wear motorcycle suits. If it can make motorcyclists survive, it's good enough for an EUC.

Edited December 22, 2020 by atdlzpae

[GoGeorgeGo]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

I don't get why you guys are sh*ting on this guy's idea. - Since when disagreeing == shitting???

What's your mileage on an EUC? How many faceplants did you experience? Because my internal EUC simulation says that any kind of additional wheel, even a popping one wouldn't help much. And what if it pops out without reason causing you to faceplant?

A wire can come loose, the motor can be overpowered, and components inside fail. - you didn't mention the most common, most important cause of failure - a human error. If the wheel is in the air because you rode over a bump, a popping "safety wheel" will only make it worse.

EUC's are very reliable. Look at the forum - every time there is a topic about a faceplant 90% it's "I rode into a bump" or "I overleant a wheel".

We ride with such protection - helmet and protectors. Some even wear motorcycle suits. If it can make motorcyclists survive, it's good enough for an EUC.

Why would it cause an accident? You could easily make it so if accidentally deployed it doesnt touch the ground. I think an electronic fail safe like that is absolutely worthwhile avenue to explore.  

If your telling me you can make my machine statistically safer by making cutouts safer, im all for it being on my wheel

Im thinking one wheel on either side held by electro magnets, power sags below 5% and they deploy automatically stopping 2 inches off the ground no contact with the ground unless the machine fully cuts out .  I dont think it will be fast enough to save you on a true mechanical malfunction, but it would work great for overleans (which is like 80% of accidents)

 

Motorcycles continue to ride upright if there is a mechanical failure, plus you can not go so fast on a bike that it looses power and drops you.  Your comparing apples to oranges there.  The threat of falling off your EUC is far far greater than falling off a motorcycle

Edited December 22, 2020 by GoGeorgeGo

[atdlzpae]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Why would it cause an accident? You could easily make it so if accidentally deployed it doesnt touch the ground. I think an electronic fail safe like that is absolutely worthwhile avenue to explore.

Such a deployed wheel instantly changes the center of mass of the wheel and definitely introduces a jerk.
I'd rather not have such a wheel deploy at speed - even if I didn't trip, it'd definitely scare me.

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Im thinking one wheel on either side held by electro magnets, power sags below 5% and they deploy automatically stopping 2 inches off the ground no contact with the ground unless the machine fully cuts out .

You overlean your EUC. Your pedals fall down. You're leaning forward (because you were accelerating or keeping speed). You have to recover your balance somehow.
Let's assume you didn't fall down within 1s.
Now you're riding with feet at an awkward angle (let's call it "anti-tiltback"), at speed. With turning much slower than during normal riding.

Could you survive that? Maybe - if you trained the cutoffs beforehand. 99% chance you'll fall anyway.

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I dont think it will be fast enough to save you on a true mechanical malfunction, but it would work great for overleans (which is like 80% of accidents)

There is a simpler, foolproof solution for 80% of accidents - buy a stronger wheel.
I never overleant my MSX because I ride 20km/h slower than it's top speed.

###########################

Make a prototype, make a video demonstrating it's capabilities, send it to Gotway or KingSong. That's how you make this idea into reality.
Arguing over it on the forum is just an entertainment.

Edited December 22, 2020 by atdlzpae

[GoGeorgeGo]

37 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

Such a deployed wheel instantly changes the center of mass of the wheel and definitely introduces a jerk.
I'd rather not have such a wheel deploy at speed - even if I didn't trip, it'd definitely scare me.

You overlean your EUC. Your pedals fall down. You're leaning forward (because you were accelerating or keeping speed). You have to recover your balance somehow.
Let's assume you didn't fall down within 1s.
Now you're riding with feet at an awkward angle (let's call it "anti-tiltback"), at speed. With turning much slower than during normal riding.

Could you survive that? Maybe - if you trained the cutoffs beforehand. 99% chance you'll fall anyway.

There is a simpler, foolproof solution for 80% of accidents - buy a stronger wheel.
I never overleant my MSX because I ride 20km/h slower than it's top speed.

###########################

Make a prototype, make a video demonstrating it's capabilities, send it to Gotway or KingSong. That's how you make this idea into reality.
Arguing over it on the forum is just an entertainment.

I disagree, a small amount of weight is not going to topple you over, it would be no different than holding your arm out infront of you theres not enough force there to shake you around.  And being scared? Of the airbag going off? If the airbag goes off you have a lot more to be concerned with

 

And if it deploys at 5% sag theres plenty of time for it to fully deploy before the actual cutout happens. It would be no different than hitting a pothole or taking a small drop.  Really easy to maintain balance.  And even if you eventually fell, the system would absorb a significant amount of energy slowing you and the machine down dramatically before impact.

Guys can cut out literally any wheel, no wheel exists that cant be cutout.  How large of a battery motor combination do you need to be uncutoutable? How much would that machine cost to purchase? Just ride slower is clearly not realistic for the speed community or new riders

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by GoGeorgeGo

[atdlzpae]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

And if it deploys at 5% sag theres plenty of time for it to fully deploy before the actual cutout happens. It would be no different than hitting a pothole or taking a small drop.  Really easy to maintain balance.

If there is "enough time", there is enough time to deploy a tiltback. Set it to 20km/h less than wheel's top speed and you're golden.

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

And even if you eventually fell, the system would absorb a significant amount of energy slowing you and the machine down dramatically before impact.

??? How?

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Guys can cut out literally any wheel, no wheel exists that cant be cutout.  How large of a battery motor combination do you need to be uncutoutable? How much would that machine cost to purchase? Just ride slower is clearly not realistic for the speed community or new riders

Since you're asking me personally, I already told you: MSX is perfect for me. 50km/h top speed when I only ride 30km/h.
As for speedsters... Do you think a person riding 60km/h will be saved by an additional, suddenly deployed wheel?

Make a prototype, make a video demonstrating it's capabilities, send it to Gotway or KingSong. That's how you make this idea into reality.
You won't change my mind without evidence. And I won't change yours.

Edited December 22, 2020 by atdlzpae

[GoGeorgeGo]

20 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

If there is "enough time", there is enough time to deploy a tiltback. Set it to 20km/h less than wheel's top speed and you're golden.

??? How?

Since you're asking me personally, I already told you: MSX is perfect for me. 50km/h top speed when I only ride 30km/h.
As for speedsters... Do you think a person riding 60km/h will be saved by an additional, suddenly deployed wheel?

Make a prototype, make a video demonstrating it's capabilities, send it to Gotway or KingSong. That's how you make this idea into reality.
You won't change my mind without evidence. And I won't change yours.

Not my idea and i lack the engineering knowledge to make a safety device.  

Just adding my perspectives to the conversation for someone who might be working on it.  

There is someone working on a device similar to the one described here but its not my place to discuss it until he is ready to share

Edited December 22, 2020 by GoGeorgeGo