Would a wheel like this prevent faceplants?

[Vik3]

On 10/23/2019 at 6:46 PM, milesteg27 said:

I think this guy is right. if an extra is added it looks ugly and inperfect. there is no need for that. as this guy said the only thing you need is a super capacitor. 

Yes, big front leg with additional wheel makes EUC less attractive and two big handles in front on similar units make it even less safer. On the other hand adding of a super capacitor or another double/triple drives, or increasing of power which leads to big increase of batteries completely spoils the main advantage of this  portable vehicle – light weight and small size. Three years ago the EUC were 9-11kg, 14-16”, 500W with speed up to 30kmh (no need) and slope up to 20% (no need for city), but they had tendency to caching of nosedive, not often but inevitable because of lack of power, which was actually two times bigger than required for city riding at 25kmh. Nowadays EUC are 18-22”, 2000W and up to 30kg, i.e. almost two times bigger and three times heavier and are not portable at all.  

Today seated riding on EUC is becoming very popular:

 

Riding being seating is safer than standing, but the guy said that your legs are locked in triangle which is not safe:

 

But he showed that it is possible to ride even with starched legs:

 

 What I offer is more convenient and safe allowing additional thrust for balancing and emergency brake by feet pushing small wheels:

 

[mrelwood]

Right. How about curbs? Speed bumps? Dirt roads with deep holes? Steep inclines? Tall grass? Bushes next to narrow forest paths? How would the device affect the direction of the EUC when only one of the ”safety” tires hit the ground during cornering?

@Vik3, you are trying to make an EUC to a non-EUC. There are several different kinds of self-balancing vehicles already, and everything you have proposed makes me think that it certainly wouldn’t make for a vehicle I’d want to ride.

I have ridden on three EUCs, a MiniPro and a seated Airwheel A3. My worst crash? It was with the ”safest” one, the seated, 2-wheeled, handlebar equipped A3 that has a maximum speed of 17km/h. Every day I blast over 40km/h on an EUC, without a single accident that these band-aid wheels would’ve helped with, despite totalling over 18000km on three different EUCs.

What the stroller wheels would’ve done though is to prevent me from using the vehicle at all in 80% of the situations I’ve so far used my EUCs. And surely caused numerous dangerous situations and likely even crashes when finding out where exactly they draw the early non-usability limits of the vehicle.

I don’t think an overlean is a physics issue with modern EUCs. A device that would prevent overleans up to 20km/h is a very ironic solution to an issue that could be solved by slowing down to 30km/h without any added hardware. Or even just by riding more carefully or sensibly in general.

 

Edit: Actually, the idea has already been invented:

Edited October 28, 2019 by mrelwood

[xorbe]

What?  That first pic in this thread ... the reason you faceplant is because the wheel is going slower than you, as you lean past the wheel.  Adding a wheel like that changes nothing!

[atdlzpae]

On 10/26/2019 at 9:44 AM, Vik3 said:

Today seated riding on EUC is becoming very popular

I seriously doubt that. Even those who ride seated only do it sometimes.

On 10/26/2019 at 9:44 AM, Vik3 said:

Riding being seating is safer than standing

NO! Riding seated is less safe. It gives you less control over the wheel and prevents you from "running off" the crash.

On 10/26/2019 at 9:44 AM, Vik3 said:

What I offer is more convenient and safe allowing additional thrust for balancing and emergency brake by feet pushing small wheels

This wouldn't help at all. With any of my crashes. And it'd absolutely destroy the off-road capabilities of my unicycle.

 

It's quite obvious that you have no EUC experience. Please buy one and make at least 1000km to get the intuitive understanding of EUC physics.
I like that you're thinking about solving problems, but without knowledge you're just wasting time. And you're spreading misinformation.

Edited October 28, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Vik3]

On 10/28/2019 at 5:52 AM, mrelwood said:

Edit: Actually, the idea has already been invented:

 

Yes, invented. I found one more very fresh video showing that two safety wheels under rider feet make his riding more safe and confident even off road:

 

 

I mean only calm safe city riding at 25kmh, using seated one wheel riding (portable, low power and weight) with two balancing wheels (foldable).

[mrelwood]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:44 PM, Vik3 said:

Yes, invented. I found one more very fresh video showing that two safety wheels under rider feet make his riding more safe and confident even off road:

...on a dual wheel vehicle that doesn’t tilt sideways. All this really sounds as if you haven’t actually ridden an electric unicycle.

Quote

I mean only calm safe city riding at 25kmh, using seated one wheel riding (portable, low power and weight) with two balancing wheels (foldable).

By ”balancing wheels” I suppose you mean these external ”safety” wheels.

Seated and slow city riding is not a very good match. Neither is safe and low power. Or a vehicle with a target performance of an ancient 5-year old wheel, when the current wheels are so much ahead.

Why do you want to cannibalize the most profound behaviour and usability elements of an EUC? Why not get one of the mentioned two-wheelers that would obviously meet your demands a lot better?

[atdlzpae]

@Vik3 It's quite obvious that you have no EUC experience. Please buy one and make at least 1000km to get the intuitive understanding of EUC physics.

If you're allowed to repeat yourself, then so do I.

 

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

All this really sounds as if you haven’t actually ridden an electric unicycle.

Yep. Also, riding Airwheel X8 and complaining about safety is like riding a Chinese junkyard motorbike and complaining about safety.

Maybe Airwheel requires a second wheel because it's easy to overpower. Well, both MSX and KS16S aren't - every single crash I've had was due to my own stupidity.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Vik3]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

...on a dual wheel vehicle that doesn’t tilt sideways. All this really sounds as if you haven’t actually ridden an electric unicycle.

By ”balancing wheels” I suppose you mean these external ”safety” wheels.

Seated and slow city riding is not a very good match. Neither is safe and low power. Or a vehicle with a target performance of an ancient 5-year old wheel, when the current wheels are so much ahead.

Why do you want to cannibalize the most profound behaviour and usability elements of an EUC? Why not get one of the mentioned two-wheelers that would obviously meet your demands a lot better?

Please see my responce in red color below:

...on a dual wheel vehicle that doesn’t tilt sideways. - I know.

All this really sounds as if you haven’t actually ridden an electric unicycle. - I haven't. I said this one page ago. Airwheel X8 in my signature is just what I want to use.

By ”balancing wheels” I suppose you mean these external ”safety” wheels. -I mean balancing external safety wheels. When I push left wheel down the right wheel go's up and vice versa to prevent  tilt sideways at low speed and on slipery road. I do this on my ebike.

Seated and slow city riding is not a very good match. - I know that it is not "very" and I am trying to see how match, although many guys in youtube are very happy with this.

Neither is safe and low power. - the low seated CG is safer, Airwheel X8 has 4-5 times lower power and even this many - for 25kmh are just 200W are requared.

Or a vehicle with a target performance of an ancient 5-year old wheel, when the current wheels are so much ahead - and 2-3 times hevier and are not portable anymore.

Why do you want to cannibalize the most profound behaviour and usability elements of an EUC? - they are still not safe .

Why not get one of the mentioned two-wheelers that would obviously meet your demands a lot better? -2-5 times hevier and are not portable .

Edited November 3, 2019 by Vik3

[Vik3]

19 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

@Vik3 It's quite obvious that you have no EUC experience. Please buy one and make at least 1000km to get the intuitive understanding of EUC physics.

If you're allowed to repeat yourself, then so do I.

 

Yep. Also, riding Airwheel X8 and complaining about safety is like riding a Chinese junkyard motorbike and complaining about safety.

Maybe Airwheel requires a second wheel because it's easy to overpower. Well, both MSX and KS16S aren't - every single crash I've had was due to my own stupidity.

 

@Vik3 It's quite obvious that you have no EUC experience. Please buy one and make at least 1000km to get the intuitive understanding of EUC physics.

If you're allowed to repeat yourself, then so do I.  - there was no need to repead this - I confirmed this one page ago.  Never ever before I do it safe 

 

Yep. Also, riding Airwheel X8 and complaining about safety is like riding a Chinese junkyard motorbike and complaining about safety.- yes, but 5 years ago the same wheel was great and safe 

Maybe Airwheel requires a second wheel because it's easy to overpower - you mean nosedive? This is what I woud like to prevent and to keep light weight .

 

Well, both MSX and KS16S aren't - every single crash I've had was due to my own stupidity.  - I do not belive that you are stupid like 99% of EUC riders saying this after having crashes, I think that just something is wrong with EUC 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Vik3

[atdlzpae]

1 hour ago, Vik3 said:

yes, but 5 years ago the same wheel was great and safe 

Airwheel was never great nor safe. It was the only one. Safest car from a 100 years ago is less safe than a cheapest modern car.

2 hours ago, Vik3 said:

you mean nosedive? This is what I woud like to prevent and to keep light weight

The solution is to buy an overpowered wheel. Wanna ride 30km/h? Buy a wheel that will manage 50km/h.
The second wheel wouldn't help me during any of my crashes. And I think it would actually make them worse.

Buy MTen3 if you want a good lightweight wheel. But since it's only 10 inches, don't expect it to do well off-road.

2 hours ago, Vik3 said:

I do not belive that you are stupid like 99% of EUC riders saying this after having crashes, I think that just something is wrong with EUC 

I love when people start using insults.

I know every single reason for any crash I've had. Almost all of them are behavioral (I didn't see a pothole, I tried to ride too fast over a bump, I didn't have the knee pads during a crash...). Only two were because of the wheel. And both of them were my fault - I knew that riding KS16S on one battery is not a good idea, and it wasn't.

Look at crashes on this forum. Almost all of them are either "I didn't see a pothole"/"Something surprised me"/"I rode too fast to execute a maneuver" or "I overpowered my wheel". Almost none are "My wheel died for no reason".

[atdlzpae]

3 hours ago, Vik3 said:

Or a vehicle with a target performance of an ancient 5-year old wheel, when the current wheels are so much ahead - and 2-3 times hevier and are not portable anymore.

99% of the time I ride the wheel, so the portability doesn't matter much. And even my tiny sister can carry 30kg up the stairs if she has to.
Buy MTen3 if you want a small, good and portable wheel for riding on pavement.

3 hours ago, Vik3 said:

Neither is safe and low power. - the low seated CG is safer, Airwheel X8 has 4-5 times lower power and even this many - for 25kmh are just 200W are requared.

Two people (one with 3kkm, second one with 20kkm of experience) told you that seated isn't safer. We told you why it isn't (can't run off the crash, less control, knee positon). And you still keep saying it is. It's funny.

Even the Airwheel website says that it's max speed is 18km/h. A 200W wheel at 25km/h would be a death machine, overpowered on the first small bump.

3 hours ago, Vik3 said:

they are still not safe

You're complaining about safety, yet you're planning to buy one of the worst wheels on the market. Why?
Buy a bike, save money for a year and buy something half-decent like V8 or KS16.
Buying Airwheel is like buying Fiat 126p and complaining that it's slow, dangerous and requires frequent fixing.

Edited November 3, 2019 by atdlzpae

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

Never ever before I do it safe 

Any EUC will never ever be safe in a way that you want it to be safe. No amount of inventing or mcgyvering will change that.

Quote

5 years ago the same wheel was great and safe 

You’re funny! 5 years ago an Airwheel might even have been the best EUC available, but that absolutely never made it safe in any way, in any person’s eyes. Or even great. Futuristic, exciting and new, sure, but absolutely not safe in any possible or impossible interpretation of the word.

Safety is a new feature that to my great surprise and joy the later EUCs have miraculously managed to develop. That’s what has made them a great option for commuting, travelling, and just riding relaxing tours for leisure. They weren’t any of that 5 years ago.

Quote

Maybe Airwheel requires a second wheel because it's easy to overpower - you mean nosedive? This is what I woud like to prevent and to keep light weight .

It has been prevented already. By making more powerful EUCs.

Quote

I think that just something is wrong with EUC 

I don’t think I’ve said this to anyone else, but I’m convinced that you should absolutely not get yourself an EUC. It will never be what you want it to be.

[atdlzpae]

@mrelwood is right. I think that e-scooter or an e-bike would be a better choice for you.

Both of them are safer than EUC's. And have better ranges and speeds. And are cheaper for the same specs.

Edited November 3, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Vik3]

2 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

@mrelwood is right. I think that e-scooter or an e-bike would be a better choice for you.

Both of them are safer than EUC's.

Sure, I have two ebikes. I love them, but they are not portable, though one of them is foldable and I can take it in boat. I use balansing safety wheels on it in winter time - never go without them after two crashes 

[Vik3]

38 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

It has been prevented already. By making more powerful EUCs.

 

and making them three times heavier 

[RockyTop]

The EUC is a very versatile device. I think we have found the flaw. If you see one and have to have one, you accept the danger and learn that it is safer and more capable than you expected. It is comparable to a bicycle but very different learning curve and rules. If you find it as a solution to a problem it is just dangerous and hard to ride. 

@Vik3 I do not suggest that you get an EUC. You don't seem to feel the pull of the adventure. 

[atdlzpae]

If you have a winter to think of, stick to bikes. Without studs riding on ice becomes way harder.

All best/safest/sturdiest EUC's are > 20kg, so I don't think an EUC will satisfy you weight-wise. Especially in the winter.
The advantage of EUC is in size, not weight.

Edited November 3, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Aneta]

How about IPS S5 with two independent motors (with common rim/tire), two independent controllers, and two independent batteries? If one subsystem goes tits up, the other will still carry on. At least, the rider  will realize that one motor went dead and stop safely. I'm not sure if IPS as a company is dead or not, but this concept seems to provide at least some safety margin for situations when electronics fail.

I wonder if this concept is patented which prevents other companies from making a similar "extra-safe" wheel?

[xorbe]

1 hour ago, Aneta said:

How about IPS S5 with two independent motors (with common rim/tire), two independent controllers, and two independent batteries? If one subsystem goes tits up, the other will still carry on. At least, the rider  will realize that one motor went dead and stop safely. I'm not sure if IPS as a company is dead or not, but this concept seems to provide at least some safety margin for situations when electronics fail.

I wonder if this concept is patented which prevents other companies from making a similar "extra-safe" wheel?

Said wheel would either be $4000, or 90 pounds.  And some failures would probably still eject the rider.  Normally fail-over systems have the luxury of a few moments to kick in.  That doesn't really work here.

Edited November 4, 2019 by xorbe

[Aneta]

1 minute ago, xorbe said:

Said wheel would either be $4000, or 90 pounds.

Is IPS S5 $4000, or 90 pounds?

[Bob Eisenman]

1 hour ago, Aneta said:

two independent controllers

One motor , dual redundant MB's ? 

Add $200 to the base price ?

[Aneta]

13 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

One motor , dual redundant MB's ? 

Add $200 to the base price ?

I'd gladly pay $200 extra, it's much less than a $20,000 bill from the hospital for multiple surgeries if some tiny component of "all-eggs-in-one-basket" controller fails.

[Aneta]

34 minutes ago, xorbe said:

And some failures would probably still eject the rider.  Normally fail-over systems have the luxury of a few moments to kick in.  That doesn't really work here.

Why won't 2 independent subsystems work here? If one completely shuts down, the other will experience a higher load and will at least try to adjust, which buys some time for the rider to stop safely, or at least run out at slower speed.

[Aneta]

51 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

One motor , dual redundant MB's ? 

Add $200 to the base price ?

To prevent any confusion, not only it has two independent controllers, but two independent batteries and two independent motors - if motor is defined as a set of windings and magnets. It's just these 2 motors have a common rim/tire.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Aneta

[xorbe]

11 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Why won't 2 independent subsystems work here? If one completely shuts down, the other will experience a higher load and will at least try to adjust, which buys some time for the rider to stop safely, or at least run out at slower speed.

Sometimes a failure causes the wheel to "lock up".  The other system wouldn't overcome this.  Wow am highly surprised that there's a wheel with dual system already, you got me there.

Seems like if S5 was over 50% of it's rated power when one half failed, that it wouldn't end well.  Only if the wheel only ever operated up to half capacity.

Edited November 4, 2019 by xorbe