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Would a wheel like this prevent faceplants?


RooEUC

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37 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

In general, it seems, sudden fluctuations or loss of power to the motor (FET failure, wiring melt, brown-out, etc) are behind most crashes.  

30 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

I think many of Gotway's problems arise from increasing the power demands without their corresponding major upgrades in components and systems.

The wire melting episodes of the ACM and MSuper appear to be, but not conclusive, associated with the increase of heat due to the internal resistance of the wires that are inadequate in size to carry the increased 'power demands'.  It is not a sudden fluctuation in temperature but a gradual build up of heat that eventually melts the wire's insulation and /or soldered connectors.  

The oscillation problem is another issue which will hopefully be remedied by the firmware update. I only wish we knew all of facts about what the fireware update entails.

 

39 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

Segways use multiple redundant systems (expensive) to achieve safety.  I'm assuming the manufacturers mostly understand this, though maybe they aren't separately engineering such subsystems, and they have to engineer to a price point.

I myself would gladly pay a premium for a redundant system built into the next generation EUCs! Just the piece of mind knowing you are riding a highly engineered wheel that contains components and firmware that far exceeds the current manufacturing paradigm.

 

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On 7/1/2017 at 11:39 AM, RooMiniPro said:

We all know that the only thing preventing us from being slammed down into the ground and potentially breaking bones, losing teeth, breaking noses and being disfigured for life is a piece of  circuit board, an electric motor and a lithium battery with plastic connectors.  Electric bicycles, skateboards and kick scooters do not have this inherent risk and reliance on the electric components working correctly 100% of the time.  When I ride my EUC I don't often forget that I am relying on these components to keep me from disaster.  There has got to be a way to implement a safety feature that would prevent a face-plant in the event of an electrical failure. 

faceplants.jpg

I'm relying on cryonic suspension.

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On 7/1/2017 at 4:07 PM, flass said:

a large airbag that reacts when the wheel is losing power and blows up in front of you that you can land on.

Or perhaps something like this:

 

200-103R__L2_1000x1000_71dpi_HRRGB.jpg

Edited by Dingfelder
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I don't know, @RooMiniPro. With the amount of forward tilt I think you would lose your balance and slam the concrete anyway. Maybe instead let a failure trig a couple of CO2 canisters fixed to the wheel. That might give you a second or two worth of jet stabilization/thrust so that you can bail out, crucially getting a foot as the first body part on the ground. Just a thought.

Edited by Snurre
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I'm fairly confident that a change in form factor for the EUC is not necessary; e.g., like adding a 2nd wheel or hand brake.   Except for some mentions of hub problems, I haven't noticed on the forum any indication that mechanical failures are a problem, even though many of the EUCs used by forum members are ridden long and hard (even put away wet).   This is actually pretty amazing given the forces at play inside the wheels and drives.  We know a lot about electric motors from the electric bike and car, R/C vehicle and consumer electronics industry, and motors and tires don't seem to cause many accidents (correct me if I'm wrong).  Electronics, batteries and software are inherently easier to 'upgrade', and that to me is good news for the EUC in general.

Edited by Chris Westland
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10 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

 Need something like the avalanche backpack...only the other way round.Patrol-24-ABS-Avalanche-Airbag-Backpack-

I wear the Helite Vest (below) when I ride my motorcycle.  It would work just as well on the EUC, but if you have "offs" often, it would get expensive to replace the CO2 canisters, and unit needs inspection every 5 triggers.

If you are skilled, and just want doomesday protection, this vest would work.

 

http://www.helitemoto.com/shop/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CM_XuN6t7dQCFU6Bswod3HYE5g

 

 

 

Edited by Pard
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I think some electric form of a gauss wheel could work if the small wheel had suspension against the big wheel (and an ability to turn), thus could work even without hand/remote speed control... but wouldn't it spoil all the fun?

on another thought, I wonder if it would be possible to train yourself to balance upon cut-out (super-hard, I know, but still....)

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41 minutes ago, Pard said:

I wear the Helite Vest (below) when I ride my motorcycle.  It would work just as well on the EUC, but if you have "offs" often, it would get expensive to replace the CO2 canisters, and unit needs inspection every 5 triggers.

If you are skilled, and just want doomesday protection, this vest would work.

 

http://www.helitemoto.com/shop/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CM_XuN6t7dQCFU6Bswod3HYE5g

I really like that!  That looks incredibly useful.

However, it is triggered with a strap attached to the "frame rail" of a motor cycle.  This sounds a bit problematic with a EUC, no?

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Just now, Dingfelder said:

I really like that!  That looks incredibly useful.

However, it is triggered with a strap attached to the "frame rail" of a motor cycle.  This sounds a bit problematic with a EUC, no?

Secure the strap to the EUC handle.  If you have a rapid unexpected departure from proximity to that handle, you will trigger the airbag.

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3 minutes ago, Pard said:

Secure the strap to the EUC handle.  If you have a rapid unexpected departure from proximity to that handle, you will trigger the airbag.

I was just thinking of things like standing half off the wheel when coming to rest.  I suppose you need to keep a bit of play when using a EUC in a way you probably would not when on a motorcycle.

Is the strap easy to attach and reattach if you want to separate yourself from the wheel for a bit?

Edited by Dingfelder
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25 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

I was just thinking of things like standing half off the wheel when coming to rest.  I suppose you need to keep a bit of play when using a EUC in a way you probably would not when on a motorcycle.

Is the strap easy to attach and reattach if you want to separate yourself from the wheel for a bit?

Be advised tying the strap to a wheel that has a trigger may accidentally result in exactly the situation you're trying to avoid.

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14 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

I think many of Gotway's problems arise from increasing the power demands without corresponding major upgrades in components and systems. Power demands rise by the square of velocity and cube of aerodynamic drag, and EUC's forward and backward stabilization is achieved entirely through the motor (compare to bikes, GausWheel, etc) and thus which conceptually could demand infinite torque spikes.  The torque and power that make Gotway wheels attractive demands a similar scale up of components, which I think for price reasons they are not providing.  

You have similar problems with supercars ... if you create a Bugatti Chiron, you need entirely new parts for the power train to handle the 1500+ HP; otherwise you have a track/race car that might be good for only one race.

I agree and have said the same elsewhere. Improving the performance of just one component creates a weak spot in some other component if you aren't careful. Sill, I have been surprised that many recently reported failures are in the "simple" parts like cables and connectors. That's not about cost, it's about carelessness!

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2 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

I was just thinking of things like standing half off the wheel when coming to rest.  I suppose you need to keep a bit of play when using a EUC in a way you probably would not when on a motorcycle.

Is the strap easy to attach and reattach if you want to separate yourself from the wheel for a bit?

There is elastic stretch to the strap and it requires a 60 pound pull to trigger.  The quick release clasp separates your vest from the tether strap (whatever it is secured to) in seconds when you want to detach.

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  • 2 years later...
On 7/2/2017 at 4:26 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said:

And then if power failed and the wheel tips forward to "engage" it, the amount of the tilt combined with the stop / jolt when it reaches the ground would probably throw you off anyway.

I  found the video which shows that engaging from 2-3inch hight and even from half a meter is not a problem :

 

you can see that  the rider can keep selfbalansing one wheel possition ("power on") :

Spoiler

f405c8861098.png
 

then jumped from half a meter hight :

0a0b2548f67d.png

then seccesfully landed in two wheel position ( " power off" ) :

61f037ed172f.png
 

767aa2b68267.png

Looks like this is a good idea to use one or two extandable self steering wheels like that (even smaller) for preventing faceplants, and also use them as parking wheels and transporting wheels in inserted (shorter) possition :

4819ea4999ec.jpg
 

I think it make sence to test this for calm plane  reliable riding  (no hills) from home to office and back on small light weight EUC.

Sorry for my English - I am a newcomer as well :) .
 


 

 

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Anti--nosedive "Fangs" are now a standard accessory for the Onewheel:

http://thesidewaysmovement.com/onewheel-nosedive-wheels/

For an EUC I am a little indecisive as to whether a small front wheel will prevent or may even create faceplants.

Edited by Mono
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2 hours ago, Mono said:

Anti--nosedive "Fangs" are now a standard accessory for the Onewheel:

http://thesidewaysmovement.com/onewheel-nosedive-wheels/

For an EUC I am a little indecisive as to whether a small front wheel will prevent or may even create faceplants.

Thank you for the information, I did not see this before - necessity of using those wheels for that  kind of Onewheel is quite obvious. But those small wheels are rigid (not steering) and good for low speeds only.

I hope that using of small steering (rotating???) wheels  (not fixed) will allow to recover and keep going  after nosedive and power cut off  at higher speeds as it is done on Gauswheels. Need testing :) 

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As i was searching the web for high speed electric unicycle that wouldn't faceplant us & i found Uno. i wonder why it doesn't make it into the market since it was first unveiled in the year 2008. Well i guess whatever patent they hold should be expired by now & we shall see this concept in the future for all high speed electric unicycle, what other design that wouldn't faceplant us except this :lol: 

uI55b7M.jpg.4ff8843d6d888206e157c4d601b4c4e9.jpg

Uno.jpg.c680591e32b80cdbc270368d03259b3b.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, Mono said:

an EUC I am a little indecisive as to whether a small front wheel will prevent or may even create faceplants

I would suggest instead that the handle of an EUC...

--be reversed so it deploys to the front.

--be of the external Inmotion V10 design, with a very tall skid at the tip.

--be triggered when a faceplant is imminent, probably via compressed air or chemical reaction in order to deploy as fast as possible.

This way, you get all the benefits of a handle and the original form factor of the wheel, with the fairly large drawback that this is an active system which lots of things can go wrong. It'd probably deploy during any crash, certainly as the wheel got older it would become unreliable (we can't even keep our motherboards from frying in a significant number of our wheels, and 4 out of 5 of my wheels have had electronic malfunctions...except a Gotway go figure).

I remember that when I used to go to church, about once a month or so I'd see a woman with double black eyes. These were simply airbags that had deployed; the church had a large enough congregation that automobile crashes occured frequently in that population.

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On 9/18/2019 at 6:46 PM, yuweng said:

As i was searching the web for high speed electric unicycle that wouldn't faceplant us & i found Uno. i wonder why it doesn't make it into the market since it was first unveiled in the year 2008.

To me the main advantage of regular electric unicycle is that this serious vehicle for adult people has pocket sizes and light weight. Big units like yours are still dangerous, big, heavy and expensive.

Problem with nosedive and cut off is solved on Onewheels without increasing of weight and dimensions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPxztvTKNnQ

Electric unicycle need something like that, but the manufactures only offer increasing of power…weight and price, not solving the problem and doing the vehicle less handed IMHO.

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On 9/18/2019 at 3:46 PM, yuweng said:

i wonder why it doesn't make it into the market since it was first unveiled in the year 2008

Tell us max speed, weight and price point and I'll tell you why so few people are interested :rolleyes:

2 hours ago, Vik3 said:

Problem with nosedive and cut off is solved on Onewheels without increasing of weight and dimensions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPxztvTKNnQ

Electric unicycle need something like that, but the manufactures only offer increasing of power…weight and price, not solving the problem and doing the vehicle less handed IMHO.

Nosediving isn't really a problem for EUCs in principle: with the right combination of a powerful enough motor (and short enough pedals) and tilt-back, it is virtually impossible to nosedive an EUC. This is fundamentally different for the Onewheel where one foot stands in front of the wheel.

Many customers prefer an EUC that goes 40km/h without tilt-back to one that is slower but overlean-safe. That's how KingSong finally broke their promise to only sell safe wheels and why we see so many overleans. I don't think an added small front wheel brought to the market would fundamentally change this situation of customer preference, hence it wouldn't be profitable to bring to market.

I personally also prefer a light EUC with long pedals over an overlean-safe version of it which would be either heavier or equipped with shorter pedals. The added weight and changed form factor of a front wheel doesn't appeal to me either.

Edited by Mono
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11 hours ago, Mono said:

Nosediving isn't really a problem for EUCs in principle: ....... it is virtually impossible to nosedive an EUC.

May be something wrong with my English or with my logic, but in my understanding nosediving is impossible in principle on two or more wheels vehicles. On EUC or mono wheel vehicles it possible and happens quite often just due it’s principle: when speed close to idling is reached, low batteries, electricity gone, climbing step hills, sudden restrictions to movement, heavy rider etc. – which are save for multi wheels vehicles.

For city save speeds 20-25kmh just 200Wt are enough, and for city regular slopes 4-12% not more than 500Wt are needed. For going from home to office 20-30km range a day an EUC 12kg with 16 inch wheel, being safe, looks ideal with keeping almost the same dimensions in transporting state (bus, metro) :) .

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On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 3:33 AM, Chris Westland said:

 Segways use multiple redundant systems (expensive) to achieve safety.  

If Segway did this with EUC's I would buy one. I ain't no pretty boy but my face is worth more than the £1000? it would cost to introduce redundancy.

That said the stock Z10 isn't running anywhere near it's max limits IMO (disregarding the sporadic reason why the hall sensors fail), which is good.

Totally agree with your thoughts re manufacturers introducing more power but not upgrading components to suit.

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:38 AM, Mono said:

Tell us max speed, weight and price point and I'll tell you why so few people are interested :rolleyes:

Its not that, i just couldn't believe that such technology was invented for more than 10 years ago but doesn't even make it to the market, the same with Ryno

Updates

Ben seems to be a very nice young man, in the video he explain everything.

Spoiler

 

23 hours ago, Vik3 said:

in my understanding nosediving is impossible in principle on two or more wheels vehicles. On EUC or mono wheel vehicles it possible and happens quite often just due it’s principle

 

22 hours ago, Planemo said:

Totally agree with your thoughts re manufacturers introducing more power but not upgrading components to suit.

My thought is exactly but i wouldn't wanna ride an EUC with two wheels on it, it would loose its appeals :P But i would totally ride an EUC like Uno, when it reaches a certain high speed, may be a wheel or two will pop-out to the front or at the back to maintain balance, preventing face-planting or nosediving :lol: Again, i wouldn't ride something as big as Uno, preferably something small like our EUCs would be great. If only they can incorporate this or this then face-planting or nosediving on EUCs will be a thing of the past B)

 

Edited by yuweng
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