If you fell off EUC and got injured in the last few years, how are you all doing now?

[Scatcat]

1 minute ago, dalewalker said:

I have to disagree on this one. When you put your hands out to stop your fall you dont want them to slide

So take the skid plate off then. It's just fastened with velcro, so it's super-simple.

[dalewalker]

2 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Sound like a good reason for a full face helmet...

Ill pass on that. I think a full face helmet is excessive except for in certain conditions. I didnt wear a full face on my bmx and had far worse crashes than i would on an euc.

Not saying people shouldn't use them..

When it comes to safety people should use what ever they feel is sufficient.

I prefer the visibility of an open face, can check blind spots alot faster and doesnt give the impression they are like a motorcycle wich may leed to governments making us pay for registration and have licenses

[dalewalker]

8 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

So take the skid plate off then. It's just fastened with velcro, so it's super-simple.

Without the skid plate you may as well have something comfortable that protects your fingers also.

This is what i have, with finger mod for using my phone lol

Wont let me upload the pic for some reason

[Scatcat]

Just now, dalewalker said:

Ill pass on that. I think a full face helmet is excessive except for in certain conditions. I didnt wear a full face on my bmx and had far worse crashes than i would on an euc.

Not saying people shouldn't use them..

When it comes to safety people should use what ever they feel is sufficient.

I prefer the visibility of an open face, can check blind spots alot faster and doesnt give the impression they are like a motorcycle wich may leed to governments making us pay for registration and have licenses

I'm not using a full face helmet right now, but I'm looking at a Bell Super 3R Mips that would let me use it both ways.

The times I would use the full face option, is when going on the open road and going fast, or going in terrain. There's always a small but existing risk of a situation that would trigger a cut-out. If I go at 25mph, and a pot-hole finds me before I find the pot-hole, there might or might not be enough torque left to get me out of the hole. And I may have or may not have enough control to stay on the wheel, depending on the size and geometry of the hole.

On the other hand, most days I keep the speed down below 20mph, and go on roads I know. The risks for a cut out are fairly small to non-existent. If I fall in those conditions, it is likely I have enough time to tuck-and-roll. The convenience of an open helmet may be what I'm looking for under those circumstances.

[Scatcat]

3 minutes ago, dalewalker said:

Without the skid plate you may as well have something comfortable that protects your fingers also.

This is what i have, with finger mod for using my phone lol

Wont let me upload the pic for some reason

Oh, it's comfortable enough, and if you hit the ground a road rash may be painful, but broken bones in your hands or wrists may take you out of circulation for months.

[US69]

18 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Hear hear, $40 is a farking bargain!

But only US :-(

[litewave]

37 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

@litewave Do invest in flexmeters, I don't understand how I could trust my former "inline skating" wristguards after trying these on. Sure they cost somewhere around $80, but they're worth every cent.

Thanks, I probably will since they are 1/2 price, though that usually means an item is discontinued or EOL and that a better version is forthcoming. Also, not sure the science supports the discussion so far that has centered on this particular model/brand. See next post ....

[radial]

I think I'll leave my skidplates on 

[litewave]

8 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

I fell for the flexmeters after reading a paper about wrist-guards being tested. The researcher then went on about what the ideal wrist-guards would look like, and the flexmeters fits the bill perfectly.

His reasoning was:

• They should be fairly long, covering at least two thirds of the lower arm.
• They should not be totally stiff, but allow some flex especially in the wrist where the momentum should be dampened gradually to a full stop before over-extension.
• There should be some padding for the palm of the hand to avoid direct impact injuries.

Do you have a link for that paper?

I did a search on PubMed for "wrist guards" and got 77 hits. This thorough lit review of snowboarding accidents by KimS and LeeS, Bulletin of the NYU Hospital for Joint Diseases 2011;69(2):149-57, "Injury patterns at a large Western United States ski resort with and without snowboarders: the Taos experience", was the most interesting, and perhaps relevant, thusfar. They examined 16 studies from 1950-2009. Their conclusion was:

This study provided multiple literature findings that support the high prevalence of wrist injuries in the snowboard population, as well as the protective effect of wrist guard use. It is important to understand that these studies did not provide a consensus on the effectiveness of any one particular wrist guard type. Further research is required to determine the degree of effectiveness of wrist guards that are currently available to consumers. 

Here are some of the findings for the curious-minded:

• Without proper education on how to fall, beginners will instinctively fall with their arms outstretched. This mechanism is classic for distal forearm- wrist injury. As a snowboarder becomes more advanced in the sport, he or she is less likely to fall as often and also more likely to attempt, as part of advancing their skills, acrobatic or aerial maneuvers, or both, that may put them at risk for other injuries.
• Use of protective equipment for the wrist is a method for prevention of injury. The most compelling evidence is found in the two randomized control trials that studied the protective effect of wrist guards. Both demonstrated a statistically significant reduction in wrist guard injury in the guarded group, compared with the unguarded.
• Our search found numerous studies that looked at the effect of wrist guards; however, there was no consensus on which particular type of wrist guard would be most effective. The majority of the studies that we reviewed did not mention a brand name or a description of the type of wrist guard that was used by participants. Given the wide array of wrist guards on the market, it is important to know the type and material of a wrist guard when trying to study the effectiveness of a product.
• There were also several studies that looked at the biomechanical aspect of wrist guards. Each study used a different setup to simulate a fall and measure the force on the lower arm. Live human subjects, cadavers, and an EAI arm were used to measure the forces occurring with falls. The simulation of falls can only be generalized, because it is very dif cult to imitate the environmental factors seen on a snow covered mountain, and the precise orientation of the forearm-wrist when a subject falls. There were also various wrist guards-materials used in all these studies, with no mention of the availability of these products to the consumer.
• The evidence of the protective effects of wrist guards will not be effective in preventing injuries unless snow- boarding participants use them during sport activity. Many of the studies found low usage of wrist guards by participants. Some issues to consider are the aesthetics of the wrist guards, social acceptance, t of the wrist guard, and availability.
• There is also concern for injuries sustained due to the wrist guard itself. Cheng and associates did a case report on “splint top” fractures sustained by rollerbladers wearing wrist guards. All cases had fractures seen near the proximal border of the wrist splints. There were no studies found in our literature search about cases with fractures due to snowboard wrist guards.

 

 

[Scatcat]

4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

But only US :-(

I bought mine here: https://www.wintersport-onlineshop.nl/en/wristguard-flexmeter-d30.html

[ir_fuel]

I also wear motocross gloves under the wrist protectors. Don't like road rash. 

 

[US69]

14 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

I bought mine here: https://www.wintersport-onlineshop.nl/en/wristguard-flexmeter-d30.html

Thanx a lot...that is -until now- the best (european-german) price i have seen...but in the end still 4 times more expensive then my K2 wrist guards.

But when these are going down..i sattle to the d30!

[Rocky Romero]

1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

@litewave Do invest in flexmeters, I don't understand how I could trust my former "inline skating" wristguards after trying these on. Sure they cost somewhere around $80, but they're worth every cent.

You've convinced me to wear something.

I'm searching for my inline skate guards now.

➰

[Chris Westland]

2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Apart from a helmet, these are probably the best investment a rider can make.

@Scatcatyou know it ... I ordered a pair from REI right after my accident.  I was wearing wrist protection, but obviously not good enough.  The consensus on the forum seems to be that the Flexmeter's offer the best protection. 

[Chris Westland]

5 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

What is your current healing status if I can ask? It was a Scaphoid fx if I remember correctly.

It's actually a fracture on the outside of the radius.  It seems to be healing quickly, and I'm getting full use of my hand back (I can type with both hands now) but my doctor was concerned that the ulnar was moving towards the wrist (or the space between the radius and scaphoid was collapsing) so we'll see how that works out. 

BTW, they gave me a very innovative splint from 3M; it's thermoplastic, and has dial-lacing system.  Very easy to take on and off for showers, and much more comfortable than the plaster splints (looks better too).  I asked why these weren't standard, and he said that 3M wanted them to be, but doctors worried about patient compliance ... makes sense.

I have a couple of pictures ... I can't seem to get pics to upload to the forum anymore, so I have to put them on my server and give a URL. 

 

 

 

[Scatcat]

3 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

It's actually a fracture on the outside of the radius.  It seems to be healing quickly, and I'm getting full use of my hand back (I can type with both hands now) but my doctor was concerned that the ulnar was moving towards the wrist (or the space between the radius and scaphoid was collapsing) so we'll see how that works out. 

BTW, they gave me a very innovative splint from 3M; it's thermoplastic, and has dial-lacing system.  Very easy to take on and off for showers, and much more comfortable than the plaster splints (looks better too).  I asked why these weren't standard, and he said that 3M wanted them to be, but doctors worried about patient compliance ... makes sense.

I have a couple of pictures ... I can't seem to get pics to upload to the forum anymore, so I have to put them on my server and give a URL. 

 

 

 

It sounds a bit strange to say, but it seems you were kind of lucky...

[Chris Westland]

1 hour ago, litewave said:

Here are some of the findings for the curious-minded:

• Without proper education on how to fall, beginners will instinctively fall with their arms outstretched. This mechanism is classic for distal forearm- wrist injury. As a snowboarder becomes more advanced in the sport, he or she is less likely to fall as often and also more likely to attempt, as part of advancing their skills, acrobatic or aerial maneuvers, or both, that may put them at risk for other injuries.

Snow is generally more forgiving than pavement, you are bundled up, with controlled falling into the snow in most cases ... this gives you more options to fall safely and gracefully ... just my $0.02

[Chris Westland]

Just now, Scatcat said:

It sounds a bit strange to say, but it seems you were kind of lucky...

Maybe ... I never will know.  With motorcycles, we used to say that a good accident is "one that you can walk away from" ... so by that standard ...

[litewave]

I generally resist the herd/swarm mentality, but this forum is way above average, so I ordered a pair  Thanks!

FYI, I just chatted with REI Sales and they told me:

"It looks like we are going to have this item discounted until we sell out of them. We have less than 10 pair in size large about 20 in medium and over 30 in small."

Make that 9 pair or less in size large after my order.

 

[Scatcat]

30 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

Snow is generally more forgiving than pavement, you are bundled up, with controlled falling into the snow in most cases ... this gives you more options to fall safely and gracefully ... just my $0.02

And then there are a couple of serious accident types at speed that are likely on a EUC, and that have vastly different consequences.

1. You hit a bump, skid or lose your control for whatever reason while the wheel still balances as it is supposed to.
2. You get at cut-out.

In the first case you may have a reasonable chance to tuck-n-roll, in the second case the chances of you not kissing the ground are very slim...

If you can tuck-n-roll, you may actually walk away mostly unharmed, whatever protection you wear or not. Sure you can have the bad luck of rolling over a stone or root, or you can get a tap on your head or hurt a hand even doing it right - but you may well stand up with just minor bruises and abrasions. I once flew over the handlebar of a bicycle at high speed without any protection at all, and the only part that got hurt was a knee hitting the metal on the way over.

The second scenario is the one that is really worrying. Even if I have enough time and/or reflexes to do the triangle with my hands below my head and elbows outside my body, the chances of not hitting my face, breaking bones or skidding on the ground to within an inch of my life are indeed small. I've tried a mild form of that scenario when I fell on a wooden bridge running, because my shoe got stuck. I held a laptop bag in my hands, which I was too slow letting go, and so I kissed the ground chin first. It was winter and the whole thing was covered in gravel. I still have scars on my knuckles that makes me look like a boxer, and a couple of scars under my chin. Luckily that was the extent of the damage.

That is the sole reason for me getting a MC-jacket, flexmeters, knee-pads that are heavy duty and now even starting to look around for a full face helmet. I have three kids, and doing the stoopid and then not being there for them really scares me.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Scatcat

[litewave]

50 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

That is the sole reason for me getting a MC-jacket, flexmeters, knee-pads that are heavy duty and now even starting to look around for a full face helmet.

I've had only one faceplant, which is my limit. It was during my first month of riding over 18 months ago, in grass, around 13mph. It was classic form: a full flat body slam with head turned to one side, arms at my sides. My right shoulder hurt for months afterward, but I was fortunate to escape any significant damage. I was wearing shorts, a snowboarding helmet and a basic skateboard kit of safety gear. The knee pads, despite being snugly fastened, slid downward below my kneecaps onto the shins as I skidded on impact. 

Since then, I have carefully surveyed and upgraded all my safety gear, with wristguards being the last piece today. My first upgrade, however, was a set of heavy-duty knee and shin guards that resembled those worn by baseball catchers. They were large, plastic, tended to catch on each other when walking, and unattractive. They had three elastic straps that wrapped around the back of the legs and clipped to the other side. They had to be repositioned occasionally while riding, and needed to be taken off and carried around in normal environments. They were bulky and had to be worn over trousers. Even when worn against bare skin with shorts, like most designs they had a fabric backing that would slip, as described above. I sent them back.

In contrast, the TLD KG 5450 I have been wearing for over a year are designed to be worn against the skin, and have a conforming knee cup with several soft interior rubber strips that keep the guards in position. I've plugged them before but didn't explain in detail. The knee cup and shin protector are woven into a snug-fitting mesh sleeve that requires no velcro. They are comfortable and lightweight, breathe well, and despite weighing much less than the baseball-catcher shinguards, are more likely to stay put. After an entire day of wearing them under jeans, while riding or dismounted, they require no adjustment or repositioning.

From my experience, I think it's preferable to have form-fitting safety gear that stays put than bulbous body armor that won't.

[ir_fuel]

How about this?

https://www.amazon.com/Troy-Lee-Designs-Undergarment-Motorcycle/dp/B004KZW522/ref=pd_day0_263_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CZ47R5G4CGGZEB2CG7F4

 

How does that compare to this:

https://www.amazon.com/G-Form-Pro-X-Padded-Compression-Yellow/dp/B00VMA9EM2/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1503786164&sr=8-13&keywords=g+form

 

[litewave]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

How about this?

https://www.amazon.com/Troy-Lee-Designs-Undergarment-Motorcycle/dp/B004KZW522/ref=pd_day0_263_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CZ47R5G4CGGZEB2CG7F4

 

How does that compare to this:

https://www.amazon.com/G-Form-Pro-X-Padded-Compression-Yellow/dp/B00VMA9EM2/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1503786164&sr=8-13&keywords=g+form

 

I've looked at those several times. I think @WARPed1701D bought the G-form version, but don't recall. I'm still evaluating all the options, thanks.

[ir_fuel]

Also discovered these:

http://www.pocsports.com/eu/armor/

[caelus]

5 hours ago, dalewalker said:

I have to disagree on this one. When you put your hands out to stop your fall you dont want them to slide

Sliding can be good or bad depends on how you fall, the speed, and the surfcace. Longboarders use to wear sliding gloves at least. But these wrist rail protectors just restrict ne wrist too much.