IPS ZERO

[viti]

Zero, Battery 260Wh vs 240Wh issue:

I can confirm, that I have been delivered a IPS Zero with 240 Wh only on Dec/11.

I ordered the 260 Wh version definitively.

I ordered from www.electricunicycleonline.com

The '240Wh' can be seen only in the App.

Mhh, seem's I have been tricked. ...

[csmyers]

@SlowMo I want to defend Tony a little bit. Aside from the initial ordering difficulties, he was very helpful helping resolve my issue. My Zero has been working flawlessly ever since. @triad88 and @viti did not order from Tony, they ordered from electricunicycleonline. I would take this issue up with them and ask for a partial refund...

I do want to know what this discrepancy means, however. I'm guessing IPS simply used a smaller battery for their last batch of Zeroes. Perhaps these have better discharge characteristics, making it harder to overlean? Only one way to test this theory out...

Edited December 14, 2015 by csmyers

[Jurgen]

@SlowMo @csmyers

I've checked the reseller in Belgium and interestingly they have a 260Wh and 320Wh version, but NO 340Wh version.

My guess is the distributor or even reseller can choose between different capacities and probably also the quality of the batteries, to be able to adjust the price and profit margin....

 

[playdad]

@Jurgen

Well, that isn't too reassuring! Battery size difference isn't so bad to me IF the quality of batteries used is similarly GOOD. But if they allow resellers to opt for cheap batteries to increase profit margin, that's a bad bad thing! Problem is you can't tell until you actually receive the unit! I know one guy who got the 240wh unit complained that if he braked hard, he would fall. Not sure if it's due to cutoff or not.

What were the original 130/260/340 batteries used? Anyone can confirm the brand?

Thanks

PD

Edited December 14, 2015 by playdad

[csmyers]

1 hour ago, playdad said:

@Jurgen

Well, that isn't too reassuring! Battery size difference isn't so bad to me IF the quality of batteries used is similarly GOOD. But if they allow resellers to opt for cheap batteries to increase profit margin, that's a bad bad thing! Problem is you can't tell until you actually receive the unit! I know one guy who got the 240wh unit complained that if he braked hard, he would fall. Not sure if it's due to cutoff or not.

What were the original 130/260/340 batteries used? Anyone can confirm the brand?

Thanks

PD

Because of the difficulty of accessing the batteries (see my teardown: http://imgur.com/a/AVqN9) I highly doubt the resellers are changing the batteries. It's likely a result of this last batch of Zeroes. Of course you have to keep in mind the limitations of the motor, temperature, and other things, so falling under heavy breaking cannot be attributed to the batteries.

The only batteries we know were Sony NC1s for the 340Wh version, and above somebody found a link for the off-brand batteries that were used for the 130 and 260Wh versions. 

[dansalinas]

11 hours ago, Gabriel said:

 

I have ordered my Zero from Iamips.com by contacting Run Meng as indicated many times in this forum, but nevertheless a direct online shopping would be nice as well.

 the 340 wh version is not even mentioned on the website of IPS, but was available by contacting Run Meng who said that in this case the unit would still need to be assembled for this order. So it seems that certain (standard) versions are prepared per batches and available on stock while others versions, eg. with larger batteries, are prepared unit-wise for each new order.

ordering an IPS product still requires quite a lot of know-how... thanks a lot everybody for sharing your experiences  :-)

Gabriel,

I also ordered a Zero 340 from iamips instead of Tony. The main reason I chose them instead of Tony was the Paypal option. 

If anything goes wrong or the product is not as described, you can open a dispute with paypal and they can make the seller accountable or give you a refund. Tony only accepts bank transfers.

As you mentioned, they told me I had to wait one week so they could make the 340 version. It shipped on dec 8 and they said it would be 2 weeks to get it to Colombia. Let me know how it goes with your shipping and when did they dispatch it. As soon as I get my unit, I will definitely be posting some pictures and videos.

 

[playdad]

1 hour ago, csmyers said:

Because of the difficulty of accessing the batteries (see my teardown: http://imgur.com/a/AVqN9) I highly doubt the resellers are changing the batteries. It's likely a result of this last batch of Zeroes.

Actually the 240wh versions were produced en mass for the JD.com reseller. Since JD is simply like Amazon, the new battery line was made by IPS specifically for these resellers who wanted a lower priced unit so they could either sell for the same price for greater profit OR sell at lower price for greater volume. JD.com chose the latter route. All this time up till now, IPS continued to sell their old 130/260 ranges for a higher price. They never offered the newer 240wh range. You can check my links above.

A reseller who provides the 240wh at the 260wh price is making more profit plain and simple. But to provide a 240wh when their own site listed a 260wh is plain deception. Now, I have no idea why the official site chose to show 120/140 now. Maybe because resellers have requested for it! This is a very real possibility. It would explain why IPS continues to sell 130/260 still. At least until their old stock is sold out?

Edited December 14, 2015 by playdad
correction

[SlowMo]

4 hours ago, csmyers said:

@SlowMo I want to defend Tony a little bit. Aside from the initial ordering difficulties, he was very helpful helping resolve my issue. My Zero has been working flawlessly ever since. @triad88 and @viti did not order from Tony, they ordered from electricunicycleonline. I would take this issue up with them and ask for a partial refund...

I do want to know what this discrepancy means, however. I'm guessing IPS simply used a smaller battery for their last batch of Zeroes. Perhaps these have better discharge characteristics, making it harder to overlean? Only one way to test this theory out...

Sorry, my bad.  I got mixed up between ipselectricunicycleonline and electricunicycleonline. 

9 minutes ago, playdad said:

Actually the 240wh versions were produced en mass for the JD.com reseller. Since JD is simply like Amazon, the new battery line was made by IPS specifically for these resellers who wanted a lower priced unit so they could either sell for the same price for greater profit OR sell at lower price for greater volume. JD.com chose the latter route. All this time up till now, IPS continued to sell their old 130/260 ranges for a higher price. They never offered the newer 240wh range. You can check my links above.

A reseller who provides the 240wh at the 260wh price is making more profit plain and simple. Now, I have no idea why the official site chose to show 120/140 now. Maybe because resellers have requested for it! This is a very real possibility. It would explain why IPS continues to sell 130/260 still. At least until their old stock is sold out?

Not really, my contact seller from Taobao also has it and is offering me a lower price than JD although he warned me not to buy due to the high  rate of returns he had experienced on the initial production like the ones sold by Tony. Furthermore, iamips does not allow the 240wh models to be sold internationally from their side.

Edited December 14, 2015 by SlowMo

[playdad]

1 minute ago, SlowMo said:

Not really, my contact seller from Taobao also has it and is offering me a lower price than JD although he warned me not to buy due to the high  rate of returns he had experienced on the initial production like the ones sold by Tony.

Slowmo,

Yeah, what I meant is the guy who sold Viti the 240wh when he should have gotten 260wh. It's now apparently not exclusive to JD.com for sure. I'm not condemning people for selling it.. but it has to be done in the proper way.

[micro]

5 hours ago, playdad said:

@Jurgen

What were the original 130/260/340 batteries used? Anyone can confirm the brand?

In my ZERO-130 there was this battery (as I posted earlier in this thread):
http://www.saftylipobattery.com/sell-2770756-18650nrh10-16s1p-60v-2000mah-lipo-battery-for-e-scooter.html

and somebody of you told in the ZERO-340 is a battery of Sony.

So far we do not know whether there is being used another battery than in the beginning (I got my ZERO in October). Maybe it is still the same and only the designation had been changed. Why don't you ask IPS? runrui.meng@iamips.com

 

[SlowMo]

The 240wh units must be using 1900mah batteries x 32 pack instead of the 2200mah x 32 pack of the 260wh. 

[triad88]

can you ppl check what kind of charger you have? i have a DC67.2V /1.75A on the site its  62.7V/2A thats a 0.25A difference.

difference battery 240 need less amp to charge up? will take longer to charge up i think.

thanks in advance ppl.

 

on vrydays i sent a mail about it.still no responce back.i wail till morning before i use paypall to get mine rights.i am not telling what i am gone do just in case that the company reads this forum. i allready sent the member Viti about mine plans.

 

[Jurgen]

@csmyers

I agree, it doesn't make sense to swap out batteries from a distributor POV.

If they order enough devices they can just ask to make a different version for them, a bit like car models have different versions in different regions.

On the shiping difficulties: when inquiring about a new Lhotz (for Belgium), I just got this answer from IAMIPS runrui.meng@iamips.com

"shipping cost is about $300 due to the high tax, nowdays we only find one forwarder who can ship this item, all channels have been closed for the similar product, so the price is higher than before"

That doesn't look good for direct imports to EU from China

[playdad]

Anyone got an email for IPS that doesn't go to ruirui? I'd rather not contact someone who is used to export inquiries. I can't seem to find emails on their site! Or maybe my eyesight has issues!

[playdad]

Anyway, I thought to  update this thread since I'm the person who added the 240wh variant alert.

I spoke briefly to a IPS "rep" on JD.com but in their own store (so supposedly their own guy). I asked about the 240wh version sold direct by JD.com and if it was an inferior battery that made it a safer bet for me to buy their own 260wh version. He said the 240wh version just had smaller capacity but were the same otherwise. I asked if they were the same brand.. he said something to the effect that they were the same local Chinese made batteries selected by IPS. And that they were safe - they never had an issue thus far.

Since I didn't have an email to follow up on, I thought this chat might at least offer some potential bit of insight. They're both locally made batteries anyway (unless you order 340wh). It would make sense that they use the same make/brand in both versions then. I doubt the local batteries would have huge difference in price and IPS probably isn't stupid about taking risks either. If the 260wh version had used "branded" batteries, then perhaps the 240wh version would have had a higher risk profile but as it stands.. they look to be similar.

I never got an explanation to why the price could be so much lower but I got the reply that it was a special price for a specific sales channel.

Edited December 16, 2015 by playdad

[playdad]

@csmyers @micro @Pagsy @Paul Panait @Bob

When you find the time, can you post a quick blurb about your experience with Zero in the last few weeks or so now?

Are you happy with the Zero? Has it been performing up to expectations etc? I know Paul had several cutoff issues but how about the rest of you?

Have you found that using a more conservative lighting scheme helps to preserve battery etc?

Seriously wondering if I should grab this soon. Thanks!!

[micro]

16 minutes ago, playdad said:

@csmyers @micro @Pagsy @Paul Panait @Bob

When you find the time, can you post a quick blurb about your experience with Zero in the last few weeks or so now?

Are you happy with the Zero? Has it been performing up to expectations etc? I know Paul had several cutoff issues but how about the rest of you?

Have you found that using a more conservative lighting scheme helps to preserve battery etc?

Seriously wondering if I should grab this soon. Thanks!!

Next week you will see my review update, I am still waiting for some comments from the side of IPS.

[Jurgen]

@playdad now I understand why the zero is much cheaper than the Lhotz which uses panasonic or sony batteries. I was tempted to buy the Zero, but no longer if it has Chinese  batteries!

 

[playdad]

35 minutes ago, Jurgen said:

@playdad now I understand why the zero is much cheaper than the Lhotz which uses panasonic or sony batteries. I was tempted to buy the Zero, but no longer if it has Chinese  batteries!

 

@Jurgen Yes, if you want a solid investment... then batteries should matter. The quality matters especially this early in a product's life cycle when there are few reviews from early users to assure you that the locally made batteries are solid and reliable.

Which is exactly why I've been hoping to hear more reviews. Especially of the 130/260wh variants. The 340wh version is supposed to be using quality batteries though. Which were you planning to buy?

Anyway, the rep told me the 130/260 WH versions use the "custom made" locally produced batteries. Nothing was said about the 340wh version and I didn't ask!

For me personally, I'm still considering buying the 240WH version (since it's supposedly the same battery anyway) because it's only US$310. And I don't need shipping while I'm in China. Lastly, I'm also buying my first EUC and will probably buy a 2nd more expensive one later on. (and pass this to my wife or son)

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by playdad
add

[viti]

On 16.12.2015 at 5:48 PM, playdad said:

Anyway, I thought to  update this thread since I'm the person who added the 240wh variant alert.

I spoke briefly to a IPS "rep" on JD.com but in their own store (so supposedly their own guy). I asked about the 240wh version sold direct by JD.com and if it was an inferior battery that made it a safer bet for me to buy their own 260wh version. He said the 240wh version just had smaller capacity but were the same otherwise. I asked if they were the same brand.. he said something to the effect that they were the same local Chinese made batteries selected by IPS. And that they were safe - they never had an issue thus far.

Since I didn't have an email to follow up on, I thought this chat might at least offer some potential bit of insight. They're both locally made batteries anyway (unless you order 340wh). It would make sense that they use the same make/brand in both versions then. I doubt the local batteries would have huge difference in price and IPS probably isn't stupid about taking risks either. If the 260wh version had used "branded" batteries, then perhaps the 240wh version would have had a higher risk profile but as it stands.. they look to be similar.

I never got an explanation to why the price could be so much lower but I got the reply that it was a special price for a specific sales channel.

 

Hi  @playdad,

thanks very much for your update with this issue (especially important for me, as I'm still trying to resolve the issue of having been delivered the smaller 240 Wh Zero instead the paid 260 Wh).

Your info sounds very good to me. But it also contradicts the info from SlowMo above speaking of a high return rate of the 240' Zeros. (Maybe the was only an issue at the beginning of producing the 240 Wh version?)

What makes me think again is the high price difference the two versions have. ...

 

By the way: I thought, that the well known manufacturers of Unis do all use high quality best brand batteries NOT from china?

Again: thanks for the info.

 

1 hour ago, playdad said:

@csmyers @micro @Pagsy @Paul Panait @Bob

When you find the time, can you post a quick blurb about your experience with Zero in the last few weeks or so now?

Are you happy with the Zero? Has it been performing up to expectations etc? I know Paul had several cutoff issues but how about the rest of you?

Have you found that using a more conservative lighting scheme helps to preserve battery etc?

Seriously wondering if I should grab this soon. Thanks!!

@playdad

as the Zero is my first Uni and I don't have access to others I can only give limited feedback.

I rode 36 Km as a whole with my now about 1 week old Zero 240 Wh version. Had no cutouts so far (think I only drive moderate at the moment).

As I charge the battery every day I can not say something about it's behaviour at low battery level.

[playdad]

18 minutes ago, viti said:

 

Hi  @playdad,

thanks very much for your update with this issue (especially important for me, as I'm still trying to resolve the issue of having been delivered the smaller 240 Wh Zero instead the paid 260 Wh).

Your info sounds very good to me. But it also contradicts the info from SlowMo above speaking of a high return rate of the 240' Zeros. (Maybe the was only an issue at the beginning of producing the 240 Wh version?)

What makes me think again is the high price difference the two versions have. ...

By the way: I thought, that the well known manufacturers of Unis do all use high quality best brand batteries NOT from china?

Again: thanks for the info.

@viti

Well, what did Tony say about the matter?

TBH, I have no idea about the return issue Slowmo mentioned. The rep merely said they have never had issues with the batteries in all these years but we were speaking from a safety point of view initially. So there might or might not be an issue.

Regarding battery quality... I think it's unfair to say all batteries made in China are crap. People like to claim "branded" batteries because it assures buyers that they aren't shitty batteries. But this is China and you could be getting fake branded batteries too from untrustworthy manufacturers. So I'd rather trust IPS with "custom made locally made battery packs" than a less reliable manufacturer claiming "Sony/Panasonic" batteries. I don't think IPS would screw their customers with truly inferior batteries. Not with their experience level! (but I could be wrong!)

 

27 minutes ago, viti said:

@playdad

as the Zero is my first Uni and I don't have access to others I can only give limited feedback.

I rode 36 Km as a whole with my now about 1 week old Zero 240 Wh version. Had no cutouts so far (think I only drive moderate at the moment).

As I charge the battery every day I can not say something about it's behaviour at low battery level.

@viti

Thanks for the mini-review! Remember to update in another week or two!

BTW, what was the highest speed you've managed to attain thus far? And did it feel stable?

[Jurgen]

5 hours ago, playdad said:

@Jurgen Yes, if you want a solid investment... then batteries should matter. The quality matters especially this early in a product's life cycle when there are few reviews from early users to assure you that the locally made batteries are solid and reliable.

Which is exactly why I've been hoping to hear more reviews. Especially of the 130/260wh variants. The 340wh version is supposed to be using quality batteries though. Which were you planning to buy?

Anyway, the rep told me the 130/260 WH versions use the "custom made" locally produced batteries. Nothing was said about the 340wh version and I didn't ask!

For me personally, I'm still considering buying the 240WH version (since it's supposedly the same battery anyway) because it's only US$310. And I don't need shipping while I'm in China. Lastly, I'm also buying my first EUC and will probably buy a 2nd more expensive one later on. (and pass this to my wife or son)

 

I like the Lhotz sturdy desing but it's heavy and my older version is limited to 20KmH.

So my iideal EUC  garage should have a light 14" commuter wheel (IPS Zero 340Wh ?), and a heavy weight 16" >500Wh for shopping and fun around the vilage (IPS 152 or KS16?). My next buy is probably going to be the second one, as commuting with the Lhotz is doable.

The batteries seem to be the most limiting factor in a good wheel, and are a potential hazard if they're not high quality.

I'm not entirely at ease with the fact that even IPS now moves to chinese batt to cut cost (improve margin?) without any transparency about this.

 

[Gabriel]

Guys, there is no delivery possible at the moment!

maybe this is of interest for someone interested in IPS Zero or other IPS models but it turns out that my order for an IPS Zero 340 from iamips.com (official factory) could not be delivered 

it seems that the chinese customs rejected my (and other) wheels in the freight because they were assimilated to hoverboard which have bad reputation at the moment (batteries catching fire, explosion,..). So now I have valid reason to really hate these hoverboards ...

I was luckily refunded without any problem from IPS but nevertheless I will spend my Christmas wheel...less .... 

IPS informed me that they will contact me when a possible shipment is possible 

so, waiting ...

 

Btw: I heard a lot about Tony in this forum and some issues others members had. Actually, I asked a quote from him as well and there is not so much difference between Tony (ipselectricunicycle.com) and official iamips.com. The only difference is that Tony offers additionally wire transfer which saves you the Paypal fees that you have to pay when ordering by official IPS store. But when I consider what happend to my order I am happy I did it over the official store. Additionally the 340 wh battery was assembled just for this order so it means you are guaranteed to get one of the latest produced models out of the chain.  

Edited December 18, 2015 by Gabriel

[Paul Panait]

7 hours ago, playdad said:

@csmyers @micro @Pagsy @Paul Panait @Bob

When you find the time, can you post a quick blurb about your experience with Zero in the last few weeks or so now?

Are you happy with the Zero? Has it been performing up to expectations etc? I know Paul had several cutoff issues but how about the rest of you?

Have you found that using a more conservative lighting scheme helps to preserve battery etc?

Seriously wondering if I should grab this soon. Thanks!

I love this Euc since is lightweight and it charges within the hour. The speed is nice since goes up to 30kph, however 25kph is a nice riding experience. The acceleration is nice and since is only 14" it gives a lot of maneuverability in small spaces or sharp turns. I had no more problems with cut outs since i kind of know when they are about to happen. 

On the other hand on the cold weather as 3-4 celsius, I have noticed that i can't go more than 4km in one full charge with average speed of 20-24kph. My battery will be completely empty for about 10 min and then i still have like 40% battery. Then go again max 2km more  then have a small cigarette brake for 10 min and i can go for 2 more, maybe.  

Fortunately i dont make trips longer than 3-4 km at a time and then i will put it on charge again. 

I strongly cosider a battery pack of 260Wh high quality and custom made so I can squeeze through the airport as well with it. But i would rather pay for a super good pack that would not have such a big voltage drop. So not Ips for that matter, maybe anything better? Need to look for something in the spring. 

[johnc415]

3 hours ago, Gabriel said:

Guys, there is no delivery possible at the moment!

maybe this is of interest for someone interested in IPS Zero or other IPS models but it turns out that my order for an IPS Zero 340 from iamips.com (official factory) could not be delivered 

it seems that the chinese customs rejected my (and other) wheels in the freight because they were assimilated to hoverboard which have bad reputation at the moment (batteries catching fire, explosion,..). So now I have valid reason to really hate these hoverboards ...

I was luckily refunded without any problem from IPS but nevertheless I will spend my Christmas wheel...less .... 

IPS informed me that they will contact me when a possible shipment is possible 

so, waiting ...

 

Btw: I heard a lot about Tony in this forum and some issues others members had. Actually, I asked a quote from him as well and there is not so much difference between Tony (ipselectricunicycle.com) and official iamips.com. The only difference is that Tony offers additionally wire transfer which saves you the Paypal fees that you have to pay when ordering by official IPS store. But when I consider what happend to my order I am happy I did it over the official store. Additionally the 340 wh battery was assembled just for this order so it means you are guaranteed to get one of the latest produced models out of the chain.  

Are you in the US? I have stock of the 340wh IPS zero units. Can make you happy on Christmas Day haha, or potentially able to. PM if so and interested, I ship from NJ