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John Eucist

IPS ZERO

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25 minutes ago, micro said:

I am trying to think. It is not always easy.

It is not reasonable to cut the battery when there is a transient. I cannot believe in it. Regarding the grinding noise I do see mainly my ideas in this thread.

 

Guess it depends on the BMS, here are spec-sheets from two (random) 16S / 60V nominal / 67.2V max BMSs I found from Aliexpress that list the cut-off delays (most spec sheets don't even tell that):

HTB18YSsHpXXXXbBaXXXq6xXFXXXc.jpg?size=1

The first one detects over discharge (too low voltage) in 115-173ms (0.115-0.173 seconds)! It also lists that over current is detected even faster, 7.2-11ms. Over charge protection is much slower at 0.7-1.3s (700-1300ms).

The second one is much slower, 0.8-2.5s (800-2500ms) for over discharge (same as for over charge): 

HTB1NxnOGXXXXXXIXFXXq6xXFXXXe.jpg?size=9

Of course, the manufacturers never list the specs of the BMSs they use, so the "speed" at which the BMS reacts to too low voltage could vary a lot from battery to battery (they might not even buy the batteries always from the same place/use same BMS for each batch)...

Edit: here's third one, these are the BMSs I have in the custom-packs right now:

Over-charged Protection: 4.20 ± 0.05 V
Over-charged delay: 55mS
Over-charged release: 4.05 ± 0.05 V
Over-discharged threshold: 2.90 ± 0.05 V
Over-discharged delay: 5mS
Over-current Protecton: 45 A

Even faster, 5ms (0.005 seconds) overdischarge delay, 55ms (0.055 seconds) for overcharge.

 

 

 

Edited by esaj

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In Jason's graph there is a cut at 55V (it is not really to be seen, the time resolution is some seconds). If this is not actually lower there is most probably no BMS cut-out. Other way round: A drop to 45V (or less, the cut-off voltage of some BMS) with a battery of at least 50% capacity corresponds to a current of more than 50A for the ZERO-260 (see my calculation above). Does control and motor draw more than 50A for 0.1s? I don't think so.

However, so far we have two ideas about the "grinding": BMS cut-out/cut-in within a very short period, or motor drive overloaded. Which one is true? Or anything else?

What we need is the information of ZERO's  cut-out delay.

And a graph like that of Jason which shows voltage and current during "grinding". I can not do that as I am a coward.

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4 hours ago, micro said:

And a graph like that of Jason which shows voltage and current during "grinding". I can not do that as I am a coward.

Are there any apps that will capture voltage and current for the IPS Zero on iOS? I'm not willing to risk my neck, but if I get it while riding anyway, I might as well be recording the data.

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It seams that something is wrong with the connectivity of my yesterday unboxed ZERO.

Can not install the app XIMA on my SGS2 (Parsing error).

At my iPhone 4S it was possbile to install the app but the bluetooth module is not detecting the switched on ZERO.

At my Samsung Tab S2 it was possible to install the app and the ZERO is detected by the bluetooth module. But when I start the app the ZERO is not detected after 15 minutes.

It seams that the ZERO is still a green banana.

Will send it back and that's it. Very disappointed :-((

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20 minutes ago, Trailseeker said:

It seams that something is wrong with the connectivity of my yesterday unboxed ZERO.

Can not install the app XIMA on my SGS2 (Parsing error).

At my iPhone 4S it was possbile to install the app but the bluetooth module is not detecting the switched on ZERO.

At my Samsung Tab S2 it was possible to install the app and the ZERO is detected by the bluetooth module. But when I start the app the ZERO is not detected after 15 minutes.

It seams that the ZERO is still a green banana.

Will send it back and that's it. Very disappointed :-((

Please check first if you have the correct app.The Xima app is not for the Zero.

You can find it on this post:

 

Edited by SlowMo

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12 minutes ago, SlowMo said:

Please check first if you have the correct app.The Xima app is not for the Zero.

But this is the only app available for their official website.

Now I am completely confused.

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I had the same issue.

The correct app is "iamips" app. I got it on iOS.

it did take some time and many attempt to connect but now it is fine for me.

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15 minutes ago, Pagsy said:

I had the same issue.

The correct app is "iamips" app. I got it on iOS.

it did take some time and many attempt to connect but now it is fine for me.

Thank you for your appreciated help Pagsy. Will give it one more try :-)

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Thanks to Pagsy the iOS app "IamIPS" works and connected to the Zero within a second.

The problem here is that its not flexible programed for an iPhone 4S with small display.

The lower part of the app is not visible (see screenshot) and you can not scroll or zoom :-(

IamIPS@iPhone4S.jpg.d37cfac852631ca2ac10

At my Android device SGS2 none of the apps are working (parsing error):

- ips_1109_unlocked.akp

- ips_20151012.apk

- XIMA-ver1.1.3-201508141542.apk

The link from SlowMo does not work: http://imgur.com/bYasqmQ = Image of a screen shot :-((

Summary: None of the apps are working = Without app the unicycle is useless = Very unpleasant.

 

 

 

 

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Don't give up! Get an iPhone 5 or 6 :) 

just kidding... I know the app is not the best one. I guess IPS is working on it as there is room for improvment.

i am going to send some feedback to Tony and IPS in general... Maybe you can do the same... They might come up with an update sooner that you think.

Anyway... The more I ride my IPS... The more I like it.

i am actually very nicely surprise about the range when you cruise at around 18-20 kmh. I made 20km and my battery was still over 45% 

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9 minutes ago, Pagsy said:

Don't give up! Get an iPhone 5 or 6 :) 

just kidding...

But there is some truth to that. Samsung galaxy S2 is a wonderful phone but it's 4 years old. You would be surprised of how many errors there are just because the phone is "old". He would probably not have any issues if he had s6 or 6s but I might be wrong.

I mean Apple and Samsung needs that revenue:D

 

Edited by Viktiga

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Ok can you try this one. If it does not work then you might need a compatible android phone. The EUC is not the problem.

ips.apk

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16 hours ago, SlowMo said:

Ok can you try this one. If it does not work then you might need a compatible android phone. The EUC is not the problem.

ips.apk

Thanks SlowMo for your kind help. Unfortunately the same problem (Parsing error).

I would like to purchase a new smartphone but I like the size of the SGS2 as well as the exchangeable battery.

What Android version is the minimum required to run the apps?

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32 minutes ago, Trailseeker said:

What Android version is the minimum required to run the apps?

If the wheel/app uses Bluetooth Low Energy (Bluetooth LE), I believe minimum Android version is 4.3 (and of course the phone itself must have a BT LE -chip). I think it was released sometime in 2013.

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On 11/16/2015, 6:00:54, micro said:

My personal conclusion from this discussion:

The main point is the voltage drop of the battery when high currents of 20A and more are drawn by the motor control.
The capacity in Ah or the storage capability in Wh give us the usable range, the safety as meant here is related to the internal resistance.

The 130Wh battery packs use cells with a rather high internal resistance. In case they would be replaced by the magic LG H2 cells, the internal resistance should be comparable to the 260Wh battery (half of the 130Wh pack) or even better.

The 340Wh is not safer. As long as we do not know the battery used in this pack we even cannot say that the internal resistance is as good as that of the 260Wh pack. Obviously designers cannot optimize capacity and internal resistance simultaneously.

Here
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=561&akku2=128&akku3=&akku4=&akku5=&akku6=&a=5
an example. You can see that one battery has a higher capacity, the other (LG H2) a lower resistance. The LG H2 is even better than two in parallel of the examples I took for the comparison.

Nevertheless, the 130Wh battery could be used safely in case we are observing constantly the voltage. I would wish to have a meter (amps, volts, Ah) in all EUCs. It would be a safety feature. At least I myself would feel much better. I am working on a solution.

The indication by means of four LEDs (Airwheel & Co) or blinking (IPS non-zero) is not too bad. These LEDs do not show the state of charge or the remaining capacity (there is no Ah counter = ampere hour meter) but indicate four voltage levels. This is misunderstood here frequently. It is a voltmeter and thus you can see it go up as soon as the current is lowered or there is some energy recovering when driving downhill.

Supposing I can put a small digital volt meter on the side of the batt compartment, what would be the safest reading telling me to stop & recharge Zero EUC? 

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On 8/2/2015, 10:17:12, Gabriel said:
On 10/22/2015, 9:49:45, simon said:

So sorry to hear shut downs are happening with the Zero. This is completely unacceptable (see my bleeding hand for proof and added drama). I did my research after having a shutdown on a generic wheel and IPS and King Song seemed to have the most reliable models. Tony was great to me when ordering the Lhotz 340 to Australia and assured this was well tested to avoid any possibility of shutting down. Over 2 months riding it and the Lhotz feels like a levitation machine.

My point here is that sudden shutdowns are completely unacceptable. Other manufacturing faults are ok with me but this one is a real threat. Hope IPS can solve this issue since it seems like a design with lots of potential. For the moment, my brother and I are backing off in the purchase of this unit so we greatly appreciate all your posts with useful info form real riders.

Hello,

Following a discussion with IPS.  It seems that this new model will be available from middle of August onwards. Price is not known yet. 

when you say sudden shutdown, the Zero suddenly stop rolling.  it doesn't slowly roll until such time that you can dismount easily thus preventing any accident?

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Hi guys,  

Yesterday I have been in a skate park, with my Ips zero 130wh 

I have realised couple of things: 

- if battery is full you don't have the grinding noise since the wheel can keep up on the slopes with no problem. Found myself almost to the top of the round slopes at times when kept on pushin . 

- at around 25kph I hit a small bump and since I have over leaned a bit I had the grinding noise for less than a second but the wheel catch up with me so was no problem. Battery was still full. 

-battery around 50% the grinding noise did appear only when there was to much overload And tried fast accelarating. 

Watch "On the ramp over leaning" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/yMmOYBOtauw

- at the beggining I was hearing always the grinding noise and the bms was going in when trying to go up the slopes battery 50% or less. Then I start using the wheel changing my balance and accelerate more from the legs than body (lean less) no problems. The battery dropped to 16% after the video you can see. 

Voltage came back to 35% after 10 min or so. So the bms comes in when is overload. Video is done with less than 50% battery in the EUC. 

So the body position it really makes a difference and how fast you try to accelerate. So my opinion for the bms is the overload. 

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21 hours ago, Trailseeker said:

Thanks SlowMo for your kind help. Unfortunately the same problem (Parsing error).

I would like to purchase a new smartphone but I like the size of the SGS2 as well as the exchangeable battery.

What Android version is the minimum required to run the apps?

Most new phone's have 5.0 lollipop installed. That should be enough but someone else have to verify as I don't own a IPS.

I own a Sony Xperia Z3 compact that is small in size but good enough phone for me. Similar size but a 0.3" bigger screen and a non-removable battery. test-sony+xperia+z3+compact.jpg?o=517571

They have also released a z5c:

2100.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10

Edited by Viktiga

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3 hours ago, Paul Panait said:

 

- if battery is full you don't have the grinding noise since the wheel can keep up on the slopes with no problem. Found myself almost to the top of the round slopes at times when kept on pushin . 

 

- at around 25kph I hit a small bump and since I have over leaned a bit I had the grinding noise for less than a second but the wheel catch up with me so was no problem. Battery was still full. 

-battery around 50% the grinding noise did appear only when there was to much overload And tried fast accelarating. 

 

- at the beggining I was hearing always the grinding noise and the bms was going in when trying to go up the slopes battery 50% or less. Then I start using the wheel changing my balance and accelerate more from the legs than body (lean less) no problems. The battery dropped to 16% after the video you can see. 

Voltage came back to 35% after 10 min or so. So the bms comes in when is overload. Video is done with less than 50% battery in the EUC. 

 

Why do you think that there is a battery cut-out? As long as we have no data (undervoltage cut-out/cut-in, cut-out current compensated or not, delays) we cannot say anything about the BMS.

The grinding noise is obviously the cycle-by-cycle current limiting mode. It is the maximum output. Nothing threatening.

I feel so far we had not seen (or heard) a control shutdown.

The second lap you simply left your wheel as you did not lean back immediately when the ramp begins. Look at this video (and for the beer can) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQExsPM8R2o from our Dutch friend (leun je een betje nar achter). This also something I have to learn (Dutch and the MDG).

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7 hours ago, Viktiga said:

Most new phone's have 5.0 lollipop installed. That should be enough but someone else have to verify as I don't own a IPS.

I own a Sony Xperia Z3 compact that is small in size but good enough phone for me. Similar size but a 0.3" bigger screen and a non-removable battery. test-sony+xperia+z3+compact.jpg?o=517571

They have also released a z5c:

2100.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10

I have a previous version Z3, got a bit irritated with the bloatware and the low performance and no longer receiving android updates,

so I hacked it and installed cyanogenmod (android 4.4.4), cheapest way of getting a new phone, it's better to put your money in a new wheel :)

all IPS app seem to work

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5 hours ago, Jurgen said:

I have a previous version Z3, got a bit irritated with the bloatware and the low performance and no longer receiving android updates,

so I hacked it and installed cyanogenmod (android 4.4.4), cheapest way of getting a new phone, it's better to put your money in a new wheel :)

all IPS app seem to work

Hmm. We have gotten the 5.1.1 on z3 /compact so no need to hack it (unless you want to get rid of the bloatware, in that case you will have to check if it's "root-proof". I have not done it in ages.)

I read it again, do you mean that you have z1? Then I understand the need of cyanogenmod :)

Edited by Viktiga

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10 hours ago, Viktiga said:

Hmm. We have gotten the 5.1.1 on z3 /compact so no need to hack it (unless you want to get rid of the bloatware, in that case you will have to check if it's "root-proof". I have not done it in ages.)

I read it again, do you mean that you have z1? Then I understand the need of cyanogenmod :)

No, old Z3 (the first on the market >years ago)

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12 hours ago, Jurgen said:

No, old Z3 (the first on the market >years ago)

Ok in that case the 5.1.1 has arrived to you too but maybe cyanogenmod works better?

Sorry for off-topic. Mod can delete the posts.

Edited by Viktiga

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Thanks Viktiga for the proposal. Had a look to the Xperia Z5 Compact.

 

At the weekend I have updated my Galaxy S2 to Android 5.1.1 and the IPS app is working well now.

Unfortunately the CyanogenMod-Version 12.1-20150617-UNOFFICIAL-i9100 is not working well on the S2:

In use it consumes more energy as can be charged. Brand-new fully charged Samsung battery will last not longer than an hour just by reading news.

And it gets very warm around the camera.

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