Paul Panait Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The grinding noise is just when this issue happens. Is not a constant grinding noise. I guess I should open it up at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 1 hour ago, houseofjob said: @Paul Panait What was the remaining battery percentage when the fall happened? And how long did you have the Zero on / running for? The grinding noise is just when this issue happens. Is not a constant grinding noise. I guess I should open it up at some point. In the very first days of testing it I got to hear the same noise several times but managed to keep the balance since the noise was longer. Also I had around 50% battery left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 1 hour ago, Paul Panait said: The grinding noise is just when this issue happens. Is not a constant grinding noise. I guess I should open it up at some point. I start to consider the possibility that the noise might be an overload warning generated by the wheel on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 15 minutes ago, Niko said: I start to consider the possibility that the noise might be an overload warning generated by the wheel on purpose. I believe the same thing, only that when you hear it is to late to do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmyers Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) 3 hours ago, SlowMo said: What I do notice in the video is while Paul is making his second and third round, the lights just stayed like red-RED-red-RED which is maybe a warning indication. I didn't notice that before. The red lights blink when it detects low voltage, i.e. when the battery is depleted or when there is voltage sag, as I explained above... Here's a video of me riding my IPS along a trail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbl-44HjIQ Edited November 13, 2015 by csmyers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagsy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 2 hours ago, Paul Panait said: I believe the same thing, only that when you hear it is to late to do anything about it. I totally agree, mine did the same noise when it couldn't keep up. But it's too late when u hear it , the only thing u can try to do is to run off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 This isn't sounding right. Newer Wheels shouldn't be having these trouble, should they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktiga Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 4 hours ago, Niko said: I start to consider the possibility that the noise might be an overload warning generated by the wheel on purpose. Shouldn't be an alarm then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) This 10 hours ago, Paul Panait said: I believe the same thing, only that when you hear it is to late to do anything about it. Is here anybody who wants to verify whether his ZERO behaves differently? We can ponder here as long as we want... Did you tell this IPS? Edited November 14, 2015 by micro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, micro said: This Is here anybody who wants to verify whether his ZERO behaves differently? We can ponder here as long as we want... Did you tell this IPS? Nope I didn't. Wanted to get more info so I don't look stupid. Need to test the theory of the over leaning and see if was nor just an Incompetent rider error. I have the feeling that this is related to the battery status at that moment. But did the models with bigger battery experienced this? Because if yes, then is just a matter on how soon this can happen. For me with a 130wh battery after 3 km for a 260Wh model after maybe 6. Depending on the road conditions (slope, uneven surfaces, etc.) And the weight distributed on the wheel. Anyhow, we all learned that fast accelerating is bad for body, specially with a depleted battery. Unless you can fly Edited November 14, 2015 by Paul Panait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul Panait said: Nope I didn't. Wanted to get more info so I don't look stupid. Need to test the theory of the over leaning and see if was nor just an Incompetent rider error. I have the feeling that this is related to the battery status at that moment. But did the models with bigger battery experienced this? Because if yes, then is just a matter on how soon this can happen. For me with a 130wh battery after 3 km for a 260Wh model after maybe 6. Depending on the road conditions (slope, uneven surfaces, etc.) And the weight distributed on the wheel. Anyhow, we all learned that fast accelerating is bad for body, specially with a depleted battery. Unless you can fly 260Wh are two packs in parallel. That means half of the battery resistance or two times more peak current or half of the voltage drop. That is the main difference, not the higher capacity. IPS had (most probably) tested the 130Wh model. That is, IPS thinks that it is not unsafer (or just a little bit) than the more powerful one. I would agree and thus I suspect a problem in your case. And that is the reason why I would wish that you show IPS this little problem (give your video a better title, such us "Pauls unexpected fall". I cannot see that you are leaning too far. I am using the Airwheel X3, 130Wh, and I can lean pretty much forward when I am driving slowly. And have still no idea whether there is any message in the dumb blinking of the ZERO. The problem for me is that I do know why I am falling from an Airwheel, in our case I do not. For the moment I have no good reason as to try my ZERO. Edited November 14, 2015 by micro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) @micro good point. I'll contact them and let's see. Edited November 14, 2015 by Paul Panait Not goof but good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) I had a grinding noise for half an hour few days ago. Intresting thing: my Zero has been noisy when the engine was off and I pushed EUC. When I switched on noise disappeared. Few days ago I was "dancing" with zero (it looked more like a shaking zero by my hands). Small stone stuck inside. After few minutes I won. Other fight was with leaves. I had to back with zero until that leaves came out. I am changing settings ONLY when I am not riding. I have to stop, then - no problem. It happened couple times that pedals tried to stop me without any reason just after I changed settings. I hadn't even one unexpected shutdown. My Zero 340Wh is totally safe. Edited November 14, 2015 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Pure guess, but the sound may not be anything rubbing anywhere, but something funky happening in the motor or driving bridges during overload. Paul comes to (almost?) a stop before slightly accelerating uphill. Getting a motor running from stand still, especially on uphill and with weight on top, requires lots of torque and thus current, which of course drops the voltage from batteries. Maybe the firmware / PWM / whatever goes haywire due to a sudden drop in voltage that's simply "too much"? A microcontroller/processor can crash&reset / freeze / behave weirdly if the voltage drops too low. But like said, I'm really only guessing here. Edited November 14, 2015 by esaj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 In case the sound is comparable to a blocked drilling machine then our sound is probably of the same origin. The microcontroller does not crash, freeze or behave weirdly. The only thing that poses a problem is (electrical) noise. When the noise is too strong the controller will jump to a wrong address and after some ms the watchdog timer starts at the beginning of the code. It is a matter of grounding in the pcb layout. Voltage drop is not the reason, the 3 or 5V comes via a DC/DC converter from the battery, it should even work with 20V. Again, we should not poke inside the technological fog (now you have learned a pure German expression) but ask IPS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) I think I was over leaning. I guess that this will happen always when fast accelerating and specially on low battery. When the videos where taken I had 85%battery. But on grass it happens faster then on even ground. However I noticed that this happens specially when the EUC is pushed harder. Ps : Tony did not reply received_1061960667168364.mp4 received_1061959957168435.mp4 Edited November 15, 2015 by Paul Panait Not complete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 26 minutes ago, Paul Panait said: I think I was over leaning. I guess that this will happen always when fast accelerating and specially on low battery. Ps : Tony did not reply What I see is an example of the bms shutting down during your uphill climb and I don't see you over leaning. What is you battery level at that instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jason McNeil Posted November 15, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) On 11/14/2015, 6:57:37, micro said: 260Wh are two packs in parallel. That means half of the battery resistance or two times more peak current or half of the voltage drop. That is the main difference, not the higher capacity. IPS had (most probably) tested the 130Wh model. When I visited the factory last month, I couldn't believe that they didn't restrict the 130Wh model to a more conservative speed, I told them this was completely unrealistic and here we are.... Our Zeros will contain the LG HG2 cells, these have nearly half the internal resistance of the stock models & therefore vastly more resilient voltages under load, which means they will be much safer to operate. The grinding noise is what's referred to as 'cogging'. In these situations when the voltage drops below the critical threshold (around 45v), the integrated BMS cuts the power to control-board, & the motor goes into power generation mode (but under no-load), which is what the sound you hear. Edited November 15, 2015 by Jason McNeil 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 When I asked which type of battery they sent along with my 340wh Zero, she said it's Sony. These powerful motors do require a lot of juice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmyers Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said: When I visited the factory last month, I couldn't believe that they didn't restrict the 130Wh model to a more conservative speed, I told them this was completely unrealistic and here we are.... Our Zeros will contain the LG HG2 cells, these have nearly half the internal resistance of the stock models & therefore vastly more resilient voltages under load, which means they will be much safer to operate. The grinding noise is what's referred to as 'cogging'. In these situations when the voltage drops below the critical threshold (around 42v), the integrated BMS cuts the power to control-board, & the motor goes into power generation mode (but under no-load), which is what the sound you hear. The problem here wasn't speed, Paul was trying to accelerate at a very low speed. This is very interesting on two accounts. Regarding Paul's problem, I experience that same grinding sound, but only for a split second when I unlocked the 30km/h top speed and tried to reach it for the first time. I guess I tried to accelerate too quickly (on about 30% battery). The grinding wasn't bad enough that I fell off. Is it possible that the BMS cut the power only for a split second? Maybe that isn't the issue, and it's what Micro suggested above? Secondly, when you say "our Zeros", do you refer to the higher capacity models, like the 260Wh and 320Wh? I was told Sony NC1 cells were used... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagsy Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 @Jason, do you mean there is a power regeneration mode on our IPS Zero ? like when we go downhill, it may refill the battery a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, csmyers said: Is it possible that the BMS cut the power only for a split second? Maybe that isn't the issue, and it's what Micro suggested above? Secondly, when you say "our Zeros", do you refer to the higher capacity models, like the 260Wh and 320Wh? I was told Sony NC1 cells were used... Exactly, once the voltage recovers power is reengaged, nevertheless in most circumstance it's not possible to remain on the Wheel when this happens. NC1s are old-hat now & have been completely superseded by better performing models. IMO they're the wrong choice, especially in 16 cell eWheels. Our new US company will be launching our new website in the next week with a version of the Zero that has at least 3x better acceleration performance over those that are bought from IPS. Edited November 15, 2015 by Jason McNeil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagsy Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 5 minutes ago, csmyers said: The problem here wasn't speed, Paul was trying to accelerate at a very low speed. This is very interesting on two accounts. Regarding Paul's problem, I experience that same grinding sound, but only for a split second when I unlocked the 30km/h top speed and tried to reach it for the first time. I guess I tried to accelerate too quickly (on about 30% battery). The grinding wasn't bad enough that I fell off. Is it possible that the BMS cut the power only for a split second? Maybe that isn't the issue, and it's what Micro suggested above? Secondly, when you say "our Zeros", do you refer to the higher capacity models, like the 260Wh and 320Wh? I was told Sony NC1 cells were used... Same thing happened to me when I unlocked mine (340wh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Panait Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 So what do I do? Get another euc with bigger battery? I'd like to not brake my neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Just now, Paul Panait said: So what do I do? Get another euc with bigger battery? I'd like to not brake my neck Actually, if you can DIY and still want to retain your unit, then you can order the 340wh battery pack from iamips. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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