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Oscillation and cut out problem with Gotway MSuper V3, ACM, maybe Monster shipped from May 2017 onwards


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I think if it is firmware, they should know what has been changed prior to the last batch, but only if they are in control of their own firmware.. As it seems switching PCB was a working solution in one case.. (could be that this had an older firmware) ... but all is guessing.. They have a big problem to solve.. (and test)

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3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Got some additional info from GW this morning:

  1. They claim that this is the first time they've heard of these problems
  2. They're trying to gather the Motor Codes of effected units to assess if it's a batch problem
  3. It could be a firmware, at this point they're not certain
  4. The motor wire tubing is a new addition from mid-May 

If a manufacturer is not sure if it's firmware than he has no documentation of the assets and the corresponding configuration. If there was a firmware change they should know which items are in scope and they can conduct tests to all configurations.

No maturity for doing a batch production of a type. 

Edited by OliverH
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companies like this will self destruct eventually. I just dont see why they could survive unless their margins are so big that they can give you a new wheel and still make money. If the margins are minuscules, one event like this would be enough to shut the doors and possibly a competitor would buy the brand and possibly shelve it. At this point I do not thrust  GOTWAY to make any change using engineering principles. That clear shrink wrap on the hot phase cables are clear sign of how little they know. also to say they give you extra/spare sleeves for the convenience of customers is even more ridiculous. Technically speaking the connections should be permanent. The batteries and board should not need replacement for the life of the board and it should only be a rare event. Ane even worst, the shrink wrap is a terrible shield at high temperatures. RIDICULOUS.

Edited by Carlos E Rodriguez
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32 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

companies like this will self destruct eventually. I just dont see why they could survive unless their margins are so big that they can give you a new wheel and still make money. If the margins are minuscules, one event like this would be enough to shut the doors and possibly a competitor would buy the brand and possibly shelve it. At this point I do not thrust  GOTWAY to make any change using engineering principles. That clear shrink wrap on the hot phase cables are clear sign of how little they know. also to say they give you extra/spare sleeves for the convenience of customers is even more ridiculous. Technically speaking the connections should be permanent. The batteries and board should not need replacement for the life of the board and it should only be a rare event. Ane even worst, the shrink wrap is a terrible shield at high temperatures. RIDICULOUS.

full ack. This products are not designed as we understand designing something. This products just happens from our point of view.

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I'm sorry to upset anyone (I know we have some Gotway lovers here!) but I agree with Carlos on this one. QA is very important, very important and i have never been convinced it is a part of the Chinese business model.

This may drive business to King Song who appear to have realized that at the very least paying lip service to QA and safety is an excellent selling point. I have no idea if KS really are any better, never owned one, but they do list features specifically aimed at safety and quality.

@Dingfelder and @MichaelHensen I hope if the worst happens the dealer will take care of you. Bummer to have anything possible spoil the super fun anticipation of a new wheel!

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Just speculation, but I wonder whether their change to a thicker motor wiring may have inadvertantly created a new problem.  Without a change in bearing size and axle wire channel diameter, their motor supplier might have been forced to thread thicker wiring through the axle channel.  If they didn't spend extra time like @Rehab1 did to smoothen out any metal spurs or edges or use a lubricant to aid in wire movement, some wires may have their insulation compromised resulting in electrical shorts.  Is there a wire bundle protective tubing present that goes through  the axle channel with the wires?  The thinner hall effect sensor wiring might be more susceptible to damage.

One other possibility might be that during assembly they are having a tougher time threading the wiring through possibly stressing hall effect sensor legs so they may be breaking or contacting neighboring legs?  There doesn't appear to be a supporting PCB board for the sensors judging by @Rehab1's photos.  A bump during lower speed riding may be enough to create electrical contact if those sensor legs are not insulated or supported properly.  Soldering wires directly to sensor legs without a supporting PCB never made sense to me considering how frail the legs can be.  Even cheaper wheels have been seen to include a small mounted PCB board that acts as an intermediate junction point between sensor and wiring.

It would be interesting to see a video of the motor assembly process.

 

 

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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23 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

<snip> QA is very important, very important and i have never been convinced it is a part of the Chinese business model.

This may drive business to King Song who appear to have realized that at the very least paying lip service to QA and safety is an excellent selling point.<snip>

<snip>

I'm just having a little fun here, but you do realize that KingSong is Chinese too? :confused1:

Edited by Marty Backe
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1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Just speculation, but I wonder whether their change to a thicker motor wiring may have inadvertantly created a new problem.  Without a change in bearing size and axle wire channel diameter, their motor supplier might have been forced to thread thicker wiring through the axle channel.  If they didn't spend extra time like @Rehab1 did to smoothen out any metal spurs or edges or use a lubricant to aid in wire movement, some wires may have their insulation compromised resulting in electrical shorts.  Is there a wire bundle protective tubing present that goes through  the axle channel with the wires?  The thinner hall effect sensor wiring might be more susceptible to damage.

Hunka... are you trying to jinx my new motor? :wacko: I can only hope GW took the time to smooth the axle bore as there were sharp edges on the old motor shaft that cut through the new 14awg wires as I was feeding them through the shaft. VRhe2F4.jpg

Edited by Rehab1
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38 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

The new ACM wires exiting the shaft are well contained in a plastic sleeve. I feel good about this!

Without removing the motor covers  I would not have any idea about the integrity of the hall sensor and motor wires entering the shaft. The 9 wire bundle enters the shaft at a 90 degree angle and the previous shaft had many sharp edges. I had to use a dremel tool to smooth the edges. Hopefully the shaft on the new motors has been finely machined so no sharp metal edges remain or the insulation on the wires will eventually be compromised.

 

thanks for showing!

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On 6/12/2017 at 10:34 AM, Jason McNeil said:

Got some additional info from GW this morning:

4)The motor wire tubing is a new addition from mid-May 

Oh how I would love to see the process of feeding the wire bundle and protective sleeve up the small shaft. Do you think GW would provide you with a short assembly video on the technique?

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1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

Oh how I would love to see the process of feeding the wire bundle and protective sleeve up the small shaft. Do you think GW would provide you with a short assembly video on the technique?

I can ask, not getting a lot of answers from GW at the moment, maybe a bit later.

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Does Gotway have a social presence anywhere? We know that they don't in the Western World, but how about in the East? I don't have a clue as to how Chinese businesses operate. In the West, any company that wants to be successful maintains a website and tries to get traction on social platforms. How do the Chinese operate? If they have the equivalent than some fellow EUC enthusiast who can speak the language should investigate a bit (web surf?) and let the community know what's happening.

That's my dream anyway. I continue to be mystified how the whole EUC manufacturer community is a black hole to us.

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22 minutes ago, esaj said:

Are we certain that this is a motor issue at all? AFAIK, the motor codes were mentioned only as a way to identify wheels possibly having the fault, but whether the actual reason is in the motor, electronics or firmware seems totally uncertain at this point.

Esaj...I'm sending out my new motor for your expert analysis. :smartass:

This whole thing is very unsettling! We need some definitive answers immediately! 

Edited by Rehab1
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  • esaj changed the title to Oscillation and cut out problem with Gotway MSuper V3, ACM, maybe Monster shipped from May 2017 onwards
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