Help choosing an off-road EUC

[Tiggerlen]

Hey guys & gals,

I am starting a new project that requires that I purchase an EUC.  I will mostly be using it in an off-road setting, going up hiking trails in the mountains mostly.  The problem is, i'm completely new to electric unicycles and don't know what my best purchasing options are for my situation.  I will need to purchase from a company which will have replacement parts readily available if something were to break on me.  Are there any EUCs designed specifically for off-road use that you'd recommend?

Any help is much appreciated!

[Keith]

6 minutes ago, Tiggerlen said:

I will need to purchase from a company which will have replacement parts readily available if something were to break on me

So why on earth would you not tell us at least the country you are in, or are figuring to import any parts you might require (I.e. your idea of "readily" is within a month of ordering!

[Paddylaz]

8 minutes ago, Tiggerlen said:

Hey guys & gals,

I am starting a new project that requires that I purchase an EUC.  I will mostly be using it in an off-road setting, going up hiking trails in the mountains mostly.  The problem is, i'm completely new to electric unicycles and don't know what my best purchasing options are for my situation.  I will need to purchase from a company which will have replacement parts readily available if something were to break on me.  Are there any EUCs designed specifically for off-road use that you'd recommend?

Any help is much appreciated!

Three things need to be known:
 

1) Where are you based?
2) What is your weight?
3) What is your budget?

[Tiggerlen]

1 minute ago, Keith said:

So why on earth would you not tell us at least the country you are in, or are figuring to import any parts you might require (I.e. your idea of "readily" is within a month of ordering!

You're right I spaced that.  I'm in USA.  Utah to be precise.

[Gimlet]

For off road 14" and 18" wheels are not easy to get suitable replacement tyres for in the correct width, but you can get a Schwalbe Mad Mike tyre in 16" that has a reasonably aggressive tread pattern. 

A lot depends on the terrain and distances you expect to be covering.

[Tiggerlen]

1 minute ago, Paddylaz said:

Three things need to be known:
 

1) Where are you based?
2) What is your weight?
3) What is your budget?

1) USA

2) 200 lb

3) $300-600 USD would be nice but i'll pay whatever is necessary.

[Chriull]

@EUC Extreme's costumized gotway seems to be very fine for off-road riding ?

 

[Paddylaz]

3 minutes ago, Tiggerlen said:

1) USA

2) 200 lb

3) $300-600 USD would be nice but i'll pay whatever is necessary.

First hand, you're not going to find much with that budget. Although the second-hand section of the forum sometimes delivers a bargain.

Ewheels (Jason) are a great store in the US. You could get a v5f+ like mine for $675....but that's a 14inch wheel which is not ideal if as you say you're mostly going to be off-road. I'd recommend the V8 which is $999. It's a lot I know, but the expense of this hobby is worth it for the pleasure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[meepmeepmayer]

This is my personal opinion, but be very careful with mountains (especially at 200 lbs!!). Fact is, under these circumstances the wheels will produce a higher current than the motor cables can take. I melted my ACM's motor cables this way (which naturally means a sudden unexpected cut out crash + motor replacement at the very least). I believe the too weak cabling is the case with Gotway as well as Kingsong wheels (which are the high powered wheels that come into play for mountains and your weight). Gotway has no warning for too high currents; I think (but don't know) Kingsong is better in this regard.

I'll be doing more tests and may be too careful, but in my opinion there are simply no EUCs yet that are safe enough for real mountain riding. Not for constant bigger inclines and heavier riders without doing breaks every 3 minutes. Wheels that can't be broken no matter which terrain profile you throw at them. Wheels that with certainty stop you before breaking (which always means a 100% unexpected crash).

People seem to have a ton of good experiences with the msuper and especially the ACM, as well as the newer Kingsong models (KS16S, KS14D, KS18AY and KS18S [supposedly, not yet out]) on mountains. The videos of @jrkline doing the steep hill behind the KS factory on different KS wheels are very impressive (though you don't know for how long of a riding time these steep inclines lasted). But I cannot trust the wheels until I know that they will be safe for no-second-thoughts mountain riding. I don't think they are at the moment.

If you do it, you must wear hard (!!!) gloves/hand/palm protectors (protecting where your hands impact the ground in case of an uphill cut out), knee pads (your knees will inescapably hit the ground same time as your hands) and should strongly use a helmet (think what would happen if the wheel cuts out downhills and simply slips away from under your feet like on ice - you fall back).

More on my thoughts on mountain riding plus some specific numbers when I've done more tests. The summary of it will be, be fucking careful with this! (sorry for the language but be careful).

Edited June 12, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[Dingfelder]

11 hours ago, Tiggerlen said:

1) USA

2) 200 lb

3) $300-600 USD would be nice but i'll pay whatever is necessary.

 

Unfortunately, you are talking about three things --- heavy person, steep inclines, and off-roading -- that all make greater than average demands on EUC's ... and on your wallet.  (I'm in the very same situation by the way.)  That means, especially if you are seriously concerned with either safety or having adequate range, that the less expensive wheels will probably not be the best match for you.

The way to deal with your performance demands is by getting a EUC with some or all of the following:  stronger motors, more battery, and bigger and wider tires.  The first two, especially, is where the majority of the production costs some from.  Your needs align with ownership of a premium machine.  

If you go to an EUC distributor's site, you'l see some wheels in your 300-600 USD price range.  But they will generally be best for lighter people and those traveling shorter distances and easier roads.  You'll find they often suggest a maximum weight of 200 pounds or so ... which means you'll already be testing the machine's limits as soon as you get on it.  Who knows what's going to happen when you put it under even more stressful conditions out in the real world?

I'd recommend scouring the forums for discussions on the virtues of different wheels and wheel categories before making any hasty decisions.  You might also find useful some of the charts Jason at ewheels.com has put together comparing some wheels.  He has several, and his write-ups of the wheels he carries are worth reading whether you are interested in buying any particular model or not.

https://www.ewheels.com/electric-unicycle-ultimate_ewheel_comparison_ips_airwheel_ninebot_king_song_gotway/

If you go to his site, you can click on the images to blow them up to readable size.

You'll also get an idea of price ranges for different capabilities.  

[ir_fuel]

Let's kick this old thread up and hijack it, since the TS has disappeared.

It looks like a King Song 16S might be a good choice for off-road riding? Talking about an 160lbs rider here. 18 looks a bit too bulky for me (I don't like the 'briefcase' look either  ), and I presume the smaller wheel will give more torque to the road than the bigger wheel. Then again, a bigger wheel handles obstacles better.

From what I read here the Gotways seem maybe even better spec-wise, but all the issues with them scare me a bit (maintenance, things wearing out etc.). It seems King Song is better in that regard?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I say wait for the Ninebot One Z.   I'm hoping it will exceed everyone's expectations and blow our socks off!  I wonder if the wide tire might even tempt Euc Extreme?  Maybe not since he's quite the speed demon.  I wonder when his special edition wheel will be featured in his videos...  these are exciting times!

Realistically though there must be an upper ceiling for speed.  The limits keep creeping up slightly, but at some point people are going to say it was fun to ride at 60 kph on one wheel, but I feel much safer cruising at 25-30 kph ideally.  Can people even stay on a wheel that is going 80-100 kph?  I highly doubt it unless the road is perfectly flat.  Any dip or rise will likely send you airborne if the wind resistance hitting you doesn't knock you off.  Imagine standing up in your sunroof while your car is going 80-100 kph.  Not gonna happen.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

On 6/11/2017 at 2:16 PM, Tiggerlen said:

Hey guys & gals,

I am starting a new project that requires that I purchase an EUC.  I will mostly be using it in an off-road setting, going up hiking trails in the mountains mostly.  The problem is, i'm completely new to electric unicycles and don't know what my best purchasing options are for my situation.  I will need to purchase from a company which will have replacement parts readily available if something were to break on me.  Are there any EUCs designed specifically for off-road use that you'd recommend?

Any help is much appreciated!

I actually don't think any wheels are really 'built' for off-road use, like a four wheel drive truck is built for off-road riding. Having said that, generally bigger wheels are more comfortable for trail riding.

But you may be disappointed if your plan is to ride these on hiking trails. Hiking trails can often be very narrow, steep, and rocky - not a good combination for EUCs.

I think your price point is very unrealistic. This makes me think that you haven't researched EUCs much yet. This forum has a wealth of knowledge within it. I would recommend spending time reading the various posts that have occurred over the last year. You'll develop a sense on the real costs of EUCs and the potential problems that you will face in maintenance costs and maintenance difficulties.

[meepmeepmayer]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Realistically though there must be an upper ceiling for speed.

As you said, the limit is bumps in the road, which a EUC is very vulnerable to, and which can't be seen early enough when too fast, so that limits the speed - you must be able to see bumps. I don't think there'll ever be one-wheel-motorcycle style EUCs. EUCs are good for "like a bike, but faster than a bike, and certainly slower than a car" medium speed and distance riding. Also, as you mentioned, wind - a sudden gust and you have a problem.

I'm also in the 25-30 (much closer to 25 actually without helmet) comfortable camp. But 40 is something I could easily see myself doing with a wheel I trust more and a full face helmet. I'd say above 60 is probably VERY sketchy with any EUC (bumps come too fast) and 50 is probably the upper limit I'd go at all, even just for a short while.

Also keep in mind, EUCs aren't built for speed, they are built with a certain motor power and big enough batteries to sustain that. Whether you use that to go fast, go up hills, for a heavier rider, or simply as a fantastic safety margin (or any combination of those), is up to the rider. I use my 1500W for offroad 20 km/h/going up mountains at 15 km/h (in short hops so nothing melts) instead of going the 35 or 40 I could with my ACM on pavement.

Edited August 19, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I guess I was trying to invision what future EUC generations will be like.  Once the upper speed limits are achieved, next would be climbing abilities.  We want these to be able to climb very steep hills all day, any day without issues until the battery drains out.  I think new motor designs will be able to take us there.

Watt hours will likely max out as well.  At 50-60 pounds these wheels are still somewhat manageable.  At 80-100 pounds in weight I think they start getting inconvenient.  Unless battery power density improves and weight goes down these wheels will hit a ceiling.  2000, 3000 watt hours?  How heavy will that be?  Plus how long are long distance riders able to go for?

Maybe with wider tires along with suspension components the maximum speed might creep up, but wind will always be a factor.  Maybe with additional physical lateral stabilizing gyros to compensate at higher speeds it might be possible, but then it would bring these wheels into the motorcycle category as they would need to be ridden on roads and highways.  It's probably doubtful EUCs will ever get to that point.  It's fun though to think about where the future will take us.  We've already seen a super skinny wheel (IPS IP5), and now a fat tire wheel is going to be released (Ninebot One Z).  Tire sizes have gone from tiny experimental sized wheels to Monster 22" ones along a massive 26" custom wheel.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Don't forget the most important thing: future EUCs will be cheaper, due to the falling price of batteries and maybe also the manufacturers gaining experience.

[ir_fuel]

21 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Don't forget the most important thing: future EUCs will be cheaper, due to the falling price of batteries and maybe also the manufacturers gaining experience.

Don't count on it. 

[ir_fuel]

Kicking this one up again, with a question of my own.

My Inmotion V8 is great on paved roads and can take some pretty steep inclines (more than I expected), however when going off road I find myself needing more torque. I'm standing on the tips of my toes sometimes because it is so steep and of course there is sand/gravel/rocks/.... I find myself leaning forward so much that if I were to hit a too big of an obstacle I would fall of face first I guess ("luckily" only going 5km/h). I presume this will be a lot better when using a King Song euc with a lot more torque.

Now my question to experienced off-road riders here ( @Marty Backe ?): what wheel size? I currently run 16". I presume 18" will be better as it will roll easier over small obstacles, but won't 16 be better for manoeuvrability? And get a wider tire as this member did?

 

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Kicking this one up again, with a question of my own.

My Inmotion V8 is great on paved roads and can take some pretty steep inclines (more than I expected), however when going off road I find myself needing more torque. I'm standing on the tips of my toes sometimes because it is so steep and of course there is sand/gravel/rocks/.... I find myself leaning forward so much that if I were to hit a too big of an obstacle I would fall of face first I guess ("luckily" only going 5km/h). I presume this will be a lot better when using a King Song euc with a lot more torque.

Now my question to experienced off-road riders here ( @Marty Backe ?): what wheel size? I currently run 16". I presume 18" will be better as it will roll easier over small obstacles, but won't 16 be better for manoeuvrability? And get a wider tire as this member did?

 

Every wheel can be fun riding off-road, but my MSuper handles the most conditions with aplomb. Maneuverability comes down to riding experience. The MSuper is a joy to ride and can turn on a dim. Sure, my KS14C ultimately more nimble, but nothing really beats the comfort of an 18 inch wheel on bumpy trails.

[LanghamP]

17 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

I find myself needing more torque. I'm standing on the tips of my toes sometimes because it is so steep and of course there is sand/gravel/rocks/.... I find myself leaning forward so much that if I were to hit a too big of an obstacle I would fall of face first I guess ("luckily" only going 5km/h). 

 

My MSuper is best for off road as well but the KS16S isn't far behind.

Yes you're leaning forward and you're feeling you're going to faceplant, and as a matter of course you will given enough time. Nature of the game.

Ive played around with various settings and postures and here's what I've ended up doing for off road. I'd love interested seeing what others do.

--A somewhat less bent knees, with a body lean markedly more forward compared to roads.

--A softer settings that allows the wheel to tilt quite a bit.

--Rathsr than letting the wheel float between your legs instead clamp the wheel strongly between your knees. You'll have to figure out the drive setting so the wheel stays nicely stuck to you.

[ir_fuel]

The main problem is uphill in gravel / sand.

Even leaning forward as far as I can I sometimes have to stop as the device can't handle it. But then again the v8 doesn't have the most torque out there of all euc's.

[TodaysTomSawyer]

Inmotion V10F. 

 

[MaxLinux]

On 6/11/2017 at 5:45 PM, Chriull said:

@EUC Extreme's costumized gotway seems to be very fine for off-road riding ?

 

Unfortunately @EUC Extreme is gone. I suppose he is tired of EUCs.

[MaxLinux]

Remember the Max from All Day Wheel? Lots of potential that never came to fruition.