Dear Gotway, Please Consider These Upgrades

[Marty Backe]

As a fervent fan of your products I implore you to consider adding one or more of these improvements to your future wheels:

• Replace the single tone beeper with a proper speaker and vary the loudness of the beeps based on the speed of the wheel. When we ride your wheels fast (like your wheels are meant to be ridden) we often cannot hear the warning beeps because of the wind noise in our ears.
• Provide a means to turn off the beeper. Sometimes we can ride very far on a low battery and we are forced to hear the constant beeping even though we are traveling at 5 mph. This annoys us and it annoys the people that we ride by.
• Provide additional hardness settings. Some people think your Sport mode is still too soft. Why not please everyone?
• Replace the single brightness LED with a multi-level LED, just like the cheap pocket flashlights that everyone owns. The brightest level should be much brighter than your current LED lights, which are just about useless for riding at night. And please keep the flash mode, it's a great safety feature for daylight riding.
• Provide a battery indicator that can be seen by the user when looking down at the wheel. The best EUCs in the world (MSuper, ACM, and Monster) require the user to step off the wheel to see what their battery level is. In a perfect world it would be a multi-digit LED display that would show the battery percentage.
• Provide a fast charger for your high capacity wheels (e.g., 1300wh and above). We don't like having to wait 10 to 20 hours to charge one of your fantastic wheels
• Change the design of your wheel shells so that the screws don't snap in half after a bad fall. Your wheels have a great reputation for performance and desirability, but they also have a bad reputation for cheap screws that snap in half too easily. Your competition doesn't have this problem, so show them that you can make the best shells available. Your wheels are so powerful that we love to push them to extremes. Show the world that you can make a shell that is tough and can take the abuse.
• Many people like the option of wider tires, and have even gone to the extreme of cutting your beautiful shells to accommodate a wider tire. Why not design for wider tires and provide that as an option.
• Trolley handles are so useful, and you demonstrated how nice they can be with your super popular MSuper V3. Why not make them standard in all of your future wheels. People would love you for it.
• You may be the first manufacturer to standardize on one size pedal brackets. Now provide a range of pedal options that can be interchanged between all of your wheels. Some of us have small feet and some have large feet. People love having options to pick from.
• A built-in kick-stand would be extremely useful, and you would leapfrog all of your weak competition forever if you were the first to add one.
• Add a cutoff switch to the bottom of your handles. It's such a nice feature to have when having to lift a wheel over an obstacle
• Add bluetooth speakers, but please don't use them yourself to make announcements to the user.
• When appropriate (Monster, MSuper, etc) add a mudguard. Maybe even a removable one. Surely you've seen the 3D printed mud guards that people have been making themselves for the MSuper?
• So many people have difficulty with your newer phone apps. Many of us don't like to depend on having an Internet connection to use the app when riding or configuring our wheels. Your wheels are the best for riding in remote areas where sadly there is no Internet.
• Please keep the ever useful USB port - such a great feature of your wheels
• Instead of the dozen or more diagnostic beep codes that nobody understands or even knows about, how about providing this diagnostic information to the phone app, or a voice prompt using your new bluetooth speakers.

I don't know if you will ever see this letter. I'm your biggest fan and want you to succeed and destroy all of your meager competition. Maybe some of my suggestions can help you stay the number one EUC manufacturer in the world. I'm rooting for you 

[Goodman]

37 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

As a fervent fan of your products I implore you to consider adding one or more of these improvements to your future wheels:

• Trolley handles are so useful, and you demonstrated how nice they can be with your super popular MSuper V3. Why not make them standard in all of your future wheels. People would love you for it.

Added suggestion on the Trolley Handle I have the MSuper and the trolley handle are super useful I use them everyday, so please spent a few extra dollars and include a stronger stiffer handle. The current ones are so flimsy and wobbly I am sure it will snap off sooner or later.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Add a @Linnea Lin Gotway and a @Jane Mo into your message, and they will see it.  Linnea visited just recently I believe.

I wonder whether the speaker can be easily swapped with a large cone speaker.  I don't know what the current speaker is voltage rated at, but sometimes you can swap out for a slightly bigger one without a problem.  I've always wondered whether some sort of metal subframe could be made onto which the plastic shells are mounted to.  That gives the screws a better purchase point on metal rather than expect the plastic to hold things together.  Although the shell isn't stress bearing, it does have to support the weight of the batteries and control board.  Why not have like a metal spine at least like the Ninebot One?

[Marty Backe]

24 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Add a @Linnea Lin Gotway and a @Jane Mo into your message, and they will see it.  Linnea visited just recently I believe.

I wonder whether the speaker can be easily swapped with a large cone speaker.  I don't know what the current speaker is voltage rated at, but sometimes you can swap out for a slightly bigger one without a problem.  I've always wondered whether some sort of metal subframe could be made onto which the plastic shells are mounted to.  That gives the screws a better purchase point on metal rather than expect the plastic to hold things together.  Although the shell isn't stress bearing, it does have to support the weight of the batteries and control board.  Why not have like a metal spine at least like the Ninebot One?

Thanks for adding them, I should of thought of that.

An internal framework is a great idea, but they also need to use better screws because the ones they use now actually snap in half (machine screws with a thread locker would be even better).

[TremF]

Great post Marty.

Up to now Gotway looks to have been listening to it's customers requests in that they have made their EUC's faster and put in bigger batteries also changed the shell type on, at least, one of their wheels to make it more suitable (I couldn't believe it when they released the glossy MSuper V3) added the trolley handle into the design of the MSuper V3 and changed pedal designs slightly. 

Among other things they, at least, need to up their game a little where screw and shell strength/quality are concerned and then they will be even more desirable. The Monster is a great example of a fantastic wheel but the handle/switch area is a serious weak point. Ian is hoping to have the tear down video up for me very soon then I can swap my Monster into it's shiny new purple shell where I will be adding some tough rubber bumpers to, hopefully, protect it better in the future.  

 

[Eddrush]

Very informative post Marty. 

(If you haven't already) I highly recommend the third party 84v/5amp/3x 1radwerkstatt speed charger from Ian, it's faster than a Port Splitter. Little pricey but this thing is such a time saver and cuts the waiting time down by 2/3rds. Thoroughly tested and well worth the purchase. 

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/msuper-v3-parts/products/gotway-84v-5amp-110v-usa-etc-fast-charger-3x-speed-for-gotway

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, TremF said:

Great post Marty.

Up to now Gotway looks to have been listening to it's customers requests in that they have made their EUC's faster and put in bigger batteries also changed the shell type on, at least, one of their wheels to make it more suitable (I couldn't believe it when they released the glossy MSuper V3) added the trolley handle into the design of the MSuper V3 and changed pedal designs slightly. 

Among other things they, at least, need to up their game a little where screw and shell strength/quality are concerned and then they will be even more desirable. The Monster is a great example of a fantastic wheel but the handle/switch area is a serious weak point. Ian is hoping to have the tear down video up for me very soon then I can swap my Monster into it's shiny new purple shell where I will be adding some tough rubber bumpers to, hopefully, protect it better in the future.  

 

Good to know Ian's doing a tear down video. Can't wait to see it. I'll be interested to see much effort you go through to swap out your shell.

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Eddrush said:

Very informative post Marty. 

(If you haven't already) I highly recommend the third party 84v/5amp/3x 1radwerkstatt speed charger from Ian, it's faster than a Port Splitter. Little pricey but this thing is such a time saver and cuts the waiting time down by 2/3rds. Thoroughly tested and well worth the purchase. 

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/msuper-v3-parts/products/gotway-84v-5amp-110v-usa-etc-fast-charger-3x-speed-for-gotway

Thanks. Actually I'm waiting for my new MSuper V3s+ from Jason and I think he is supplying fast chargers with all of this 84v Gotway wheels. If it does come with one I'll use that for all my wheels.

[Zenko]

Hello Marty,

Love all of your recommendations, may i comment some ?

• I think i've heard fast charger might damage life span of batteries, so i would suggest as the pedals option, having the choice about it. I'm not an expert so i don't really know about this.
• You talk about about security features, and how alarms aren't loud enough. Why not try a new approach : sensitivity alarms around the legs/feet. I'm pretty sure we could do some "tap tap" system alert without being too damaging for the shells/screws/etc. This would be a nice double alarm system making sure you can't miss the signal.
• What about accessibility to tire or inner tube ? When puncture occurs, you need a decent set of tools to fix it... (e.g. ACM)

Just wanted to share a bit since you're the biggest GW fan

[TremF]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Good to know Ian's doing a tear down video. Can't wait to see it. I'll be interested to see much effort you go through to swap out your shell.

I am not looking forward to it to be honest. It's my first time properly opening an EUC let alone changing a whole shell. Mostly I'm not looking forward to it due to the wires/connectors that are covered in silicone sealant. My eyes aren't what they used to be and I don't want to be splicing some of the thinner wires in particular also my fine motor skills aren't the same since my spine/nerve issues started. There's also the battery disconnect/re-connect order so as to not have it arc/blow on me.

Hopefully he'll have the video up by the weekend then I can tackle it and get it out of the way so I can relax again lol

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks. Actually I'm waiting for my new MSuper V3s+ from Jason and I think he is supplying fast chargers with all of this 84v Gotway wheels. If it does come with one I'll use that for all my wheels.

As you say though the big batteries should come with the fast chargers as they aren't cheep to pick up separately BUT I suppose both charger types are required really so the batteries can get a slower charge now and again. Constant fast charging can't be good for them.

[Eddrush]

3 minutes ago, Zenko said:

Hello Marty,

Love all of your recommendations, may i comment some ?

• I think i've heard fast charger might damage life span of batteries, so i would suggest as the pedals option, having the choice about it. I'm not an expert so i don't really know about this.
• You talk about about security features, and how alarms aren't loud enough. Why not try a new approach : sensitivity alarms around the legs/feet. I'm pretty sure we could do some "tap tap" system alert without being too damaging for the shells/screws/etc. This would be a nice double alarm system making sure you can't miss the signal.
• What about accessibility to tire or inner tube ? When puncture occurs, you need a decent set of tools to fix it... (e.g. ACM)

Just wanted to share a bit since you're the biggest GW fan

This was one of my concerns too, but there's no short term degradation unless you make a habit of overcharging em. 

[Eddrush]

3 minutes ago, TremF said:

BUT I suppose both charger types are required really so the batteries can get a slower charge now and again. Constant fast charging can't be good for them.

Correct Trem. I usually slow charge the wheels overnight, but if the wheels need a quick top up I'll fast charge. As you mentioned - I wouldn't recommend consistent fast charging.

[Marty Backe]

25 minutes ago, Zenko said:

Hello Marty,

Love all of your recommendations, may i comment some ?

• I think i've heard fast charger might damage life span of batteries, so i would suggest as the pedals option, having the choice about it. I'm not an expert so i don't really know about this.
• You talk about about security features, and how alarms aren't loud enough. Why not try a new approach : sensitivity alarms around the legs/feet. I'm pretty sure we could do some "tap tap" system alert without being too damaging for the shells/screws/etc. This would be a nice double alarm system making sure you can't miss the signal.
• What about accessibility to tire or inner tube ? When puncture occurs, you need a decent set of tools to fix it... (e.g. ACM)

Just wanted to share a bit since you're the biggest GW fan

I was hoping this page might be a place to collect suggestions from Gotway fans on how to improve their wheels so that we can enjoy them more. So thanks for your input.

[Christoph Zens]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm your biggest fan and want you to succeed and destroy all of your meager competition.

Why on earth would you want GW to destroy all competition, thus limiting our choices to whatever this one manufacturer produces? That's pretty unfair! Just because you like their wheels doesn't mean others should not have other options to choose from. 

[TremF]

19 minutes ago, Christoph Zens said:

Why on earth would you want GW to destroy all competition, thus limiting our choices to whatever this one manufacturer produces? That's pretty unfair! Just because you like their wheels doesn't mean others should not have other options to choose from. 

That was probably the wrong choice of words. It wouldn't destroy competition. It would mean that all manufacturers would have to step up their game to become the same/better than the others. People would then choose through design, price and how much power/speed they want rather than being put off by or have to worry about cheap materials, poor safety etc.

[Trey Lewis]

I would love an option to turn off the Gotway dipping when you make a tight turn. It is useful but when going higher speeds and making dramatic turns it would be so nice to not have the wheel shift like that. At slow speeds I like it, but most of the time I really would rather it stay more constant.

[Keith]

1 hour ago, Zenko said:

I think i've heard fast charger might damage life span of batteries, so i would suggest as the pedals option, having the choice about it. I'm not an expert so i don't really know about this.

I don't think you guys are quite realising what fast charging is: Even at 20 cell, 84V a 1300Wh battery is 17Ah, at 16 cells its 22Ah. There is very little advantage in terms of cell life in charging at less than 0.5C I.e. this is considered a "standard charge".

 A fast charge, where Lithium Ion cells are concerned is between 0.5C and 1C. So a standard charge is 8.5Amps on an 84V 1300Wh battery and the battery will fully charge in 2 hours.

Only if you are managing to charge at a higher than that rate ( which I suspect is unlikely) do you need to have any concerns about possible battery life. In practice not charging all the way up to 4.2V per cell, unless you need every single watt hour of range (use a Charge Doctor to stop charging early) will do more to preserve battery life than charging at a low rate. Do remember though that battery balancing only really occurs once some cells reach 4.2V so an occasional full charge plus an hour or two after the light turns green is required to keep the cells balanced.

By the way I am not, in the above, advocating charging at 0.5C or above as the charging port, wiring and BMS may not be specified to take high currents, what I am saying is a "Fast Charger" of say 5 Amps like, for example, the one Speedyfeet sells:  https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/products/gotway-84v-5amp-fast-charger is absolutely not a fast charger on a 1300Wh battery and there is no reason to ever charge at a lower rate than 5 Amps unless an 84V battery is less than 750Wh.

[Keith]

1 hour ago, Eddrush said:

Correct Trem. I usually slow charge the wheels overnight, but if the wheels need a quick top up I'll fast charge. As you mentioned - I wouldn't recommend consistent fast charging.

Now leaving a Lithium battery on charge overnight, that is a terrible idea, unless you have the wheel in a well ventilated fire safe area. It may be a 1:10,000 chance the charger might overvoltage or the BMS fail but why risk your life. One very good argument for faster chargers.

[Rehab1]

Very informative post Marty! Many of your great suggestions could be implemented very easily by GW without a corporate huge expense or compete redesign! Examples:

• Replacing the tone beeper with a speaker (I might try this myself on the ACM)
• Provide a means to turn off the beeper (should be an easy firmware upgrade,) Suppose you could have an external switch but it would detract from the overall appearance
• Provide additional hardness settings (Again firmware upgrade)
• Replace the single brightness LED with a multi-level LED ( may require an update to the board that would provides a means to adjust the voltage to the light but GW's engineers could easily tackle this)
• Visible battery indicator light should be a given no matter the cost!
• Option for wider tires ( might require a mold modification but still easy)
• Add bluetooth speakers     (Adding a BT board would be easy for GW)

 If you can't wait for GW there is a board for $9.99 usd from http://m.tomtop.com/modules-219/p-e1184.html. There is plenty of room inside most GW shells to mount this. You would need to cut small holes or slots for speakers.

• Adding mudguards, using higher alloy screws, faster charger, adding a kick stand, durable trolley handle, and easier access to the GW app, possibly through the much beloved BT connection port (Save The Port) and diagnostics through the phone app appear to also be easy fixes!

I say yes to all of Marty's well articulated requests! 

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't know if you will ever see this letter.

I cannot imagine that GW is not listening! 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, TremF said:

There's also the battery disconnect/re-connect order so as to not have it arc/blow on me.

Sequence for reconnecting the battery packs to the mainboard:

1) Connect each of the battery packs together first.

2 Connect the joined packs to the mainboard connector. There will be a small arc when performing this connection but nothing to worry about. Make the connection deliberate (no pause).

[Chriull]

41 minutes ago, Keith said:

... In practice not charging all the way up to 4.2V per cell, unless you need every single watt hour of range (use a Charge Doctor to stop charging early) will do more to preserve battery life than charging at a low rate. Do remember though that battery balancing only really occurs once some cells reach 4.2V so an occasional full charge plus an hour or two after the light turns green is required to keep the cells balanced.

...

Would be a nice improvement for the charger would be some switch to choose to charge just to 80% to increase battery lifetime and to 100% for cell balancing/full capacity.

PS.: ... 0,5C chargers should be called standard/normal chargers and all the others by now delivered with the high Wh wheels ultra slow/extremely ultra slow chargers...

[Eddrush]

5 minutes ago, Keith said:

Now leaving a Lithium battery on charge overnight, that is a terrible idea, unless you have the wheel in a well ventilated fire safe area. It may be a 1:10,000 chance the charger might overvoltage or the BMS fail but why risk your life. One very good argument for faster chargers.

I work nights in a CCTV Control Room. (two-step tap dance with thumbs up) "TADAAH!!"  

Lol I'll be fine Keith, thanks for your concern. But you're absolutely right though, considering the circumstances it's not wise for anyone unconscious who can't monitor what's going on.   

[Roue Libre]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Add a cutoff switch to the bottom of your handles

Would be soooo great 

[Dingfelder]

2 hours ago, Christoph Zens said:

Why on earth would you want GW to destroy all competition, thus limiting our choices to whatever this one manufacturer produces? That's pretty unfair! Just because you like their wheels doesn't mean others should not have other options to choose from. 

I agree.  Even though my first wheel ever is an expensive Gotway, I don't want them to wipe out the competition. If they do, there will be little incentive for them to improve, and fewer model choices and fresh ideas.

[meepmeepmayer]

@Linnea Lin Gotway @Jane Mo read the first post GW wheels are great, but there are some obvious improvements possible.

Also please:

• Remove the pedal dipping forward when turning. It is supposed to help, but it does the opposite.
• In general, THINK what each part of the wheel is for, and make it 100% useful For example, have a front light (great idea!) that is bright enough for real traffic (with cars, at night, ...) and a bright back light too (maybe with brake light function so people see when you brake)