RideMc Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 New here. Hey, All! Looking for some advice on getting a Gotway Monster 22 vs a King Song 18. Will be mostly used on streets -and- trails. I'll probably go for the biggest battery/motor. Any advice? Typical considerations: Range, speed, noise, comfort. 150lb 5'9" rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Gotway MSuper's newest model has a motor just as strong as the KS18. They all get terrific reviews. Anyway, I'd add the MSuper to your list for consideration for sure.. Here's one of Jason's charts for wheel comparisons. My advice is to read the individual pages for each wheel,because they all have good info and some cover it a little differently. https://www.ewheels.com/electric-unicycle-ultimate_ewheel_comparison_ips_airwheel_ninebot_king_song_gotway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 One of the things that the Monster gets complaints about is how it seems to break some of the external plastic and screw heads in what some have said isn't that bad of a crash. The Monster will give you a smoother ride and be able to handle larger imperfections that you may travel over. I've crashed my KS18 several times and none of the external plastics or screws have broken. The Monster with the largest battery will probably give you longer range. The Monster weighs about 20 lbs more than the KS18. @Marty Backe Can give you a good run down of the Monster. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Is this going to be your first wheel? I would need to know a bit more about you and your wheel goals before offering any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideMc Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Is this going to be your first wheel? I would need to know a bit more about you and your wheel goals before offering any advice. Nope! Have used smaller wheels quite a lot! Just wanting to upgrade to something more of a regular mode of transportation and able to handle trails. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 My opinion. You are light. In general the bigger wheel is smother. But I take the argument of a SUV or a JEEP or a Sports car as analogies. YOu would not take your sports car on a trail and neither you would take the SUV unless is a groomed trail. But the SUV is fantastic to ride is open roads but hard to park on crowded places unless you use valet parking. I personally think the 16 is a nice-do-all wheel size. For commuting I would separate the models by commuting distance. I think 3 miles each way would be in the domain of the 14 inch wheels. If you are riding longer, I would get 16 or 18 depending of how much slow speed you might have to do and do you have to carry it at any time. And at the end no one wheel can do it all so it is not possible to try and fit that. If your trails are all groomed, then I think the monster would work. But it is basically a motorcycle. You can not carry it. If you want to do lots of power hills, the bigger wheels make it harder to put lean input so they take more effort to command the power vs a smaller diameter wheel. Its just a geometry thing. I have a 14 inch MCM4. and in the suburbs I hit the 20 MPH limit often because I have lots of straight open road. so I which I had a bigger wheel but in the city is just right to weave into the street go back on the sidewalks, cut into the allies. So what is the ESSENTIAL use if you try to put everything, it will be impossible to pinpoint one model. Figure our what it must have to do well. Maybe you will have to have two wheels at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 hours ago, RideMc said: Nope! Have used smaller wheels quite a lot! Just wanting to upgrade to something more of a regular mode of transportation and able to handle trails. Thanks!! Well, I wouldn't say that the Monster is "more of a regular ..." In my opinion the Monster is a specialty wheel. If you want a more general purpose wheel then stick with the 18" wheel (since those are the two choices you offered). I'm biased towards Gotway (only because I really enjoy all of their products) so of course I would recommend the MSuper over the KS18. If you want a less powerful, slower, but safer wheel, then stick with KingSong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Actually the new Ks18S/1500Watt does'nt be that slower or less powerfull anymore...40kmh from the start, after 1000km unlocked to 50kmh...as they seam to only want experienced riders go that crazy fast...... i hope in a month or so I can give a personal review of the KS18S and compare it to the Msuper 84Volt from a friend rider.... As I know in total experienced 3 major very bad falls with in complete 5 rips broken I can not stress enough how important safety is for this wheels.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: As I know in total experienced 3 major very bad falls with in complete 5 rips broken I can not stress enough how important safety is for this wheels.... Good to see you back. Are you okay? Are these recent injuries? 52 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: 40kmh from the start, after 1000km unlocked to 50kmh... What do you think about this claim? I'm extemely skeptical on account of 1) 67v, is it enough to support 50kph cruising speeds? 2) You can buy a 18S in a 680Wh battery configuration, will this be enough to power the Wheel at this velocity? Very much doubt it! 3) Use of the same motor connectors that GW has abandoned 4) How many hours of testing do you think KS have invested at that upper limit with a >80kg Rider? 5) KS have experience with medium and high performance Wheels but not this class of extreme Wheel, GW have a six month lead learning from mistakes. Personally, I would NOT dare to take the 18S North of 40kph, even if cocooned in all the latest high tech motorcycle protective gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodman Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Yeah if you were thinking of a 18 inch wheel I would also suggest the Msuper the trolley handle on it makes it taking to places a breeze, it is stable, comfortable and very powerful. I was going to work yesterday morning and in front of me was a fully geared guy on what looked like a very expensive bicycle wearing tights, gloves and bum bag, it took me a while to catch up and pass him. He tried his best to keep up as I cruised at 30-35km/h but gave up around the 4 km mark man I love the Msuper, I have the Msuper V3S 1300 but now I am thinking I should have got the 1600 as cold weather affects the range dramatically. Good luck with your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Actually the new Ks18S/1500Watt does'nt be that slower or less powerfull anymore...40kmh from the start, after 1000km unlocked to 50kmh...as they seam to only want experienced riders go that crazy fast...... i hope in a month or so I can give a personal review of the KS18S and compare it to the Msuper 84Volt from a friend rider.... As I know in total experienced 3 major very bad falls with in complete 5 rips broken I can not stress enough how important safety is for this wheels.... I look forward to that. I don't think that I've read any detailed comparison between the MSuper and the KS18S, from people who really know both wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 10 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I look forward to that. I don't think that I've read any detailed comparison between the MSuper and the KS18S, from people who really know both wheels. People who really know both wheels... Is the S-model of KS18 even out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, esaj said: People who really know both wheels... Is the S-model of KS18 even out yet? Yeah, about two months, but it takes about 7-8 weeks from order time to actual possession of goods. If one looks at the 18S objectively, doesn't really get the juices flowing much more than the 18AY+: same shell, same battery packs, same control-board (slightly different firmware), motor with a nominal 20% higher rating (does it really matter beyond 1200W anyways?). There's been zero marketing from KS, no videos, no discussion about how wonderful it is. I've put in a modest 'test' order a couple weeks ago, which should be arriving at the end of June, looking forward to trying it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said: If one looks at the 18S objectively, doesn't really get the juices flowing much more than the 18AY+: same shell, same battery packs, same control-board (slightly different firmware), motor with a nominal 20% higher rating (does it really matter beyond 1200W anyways?). There's been zero marketing from KS, no videos, no discussion about how wonderful it is. I've put in a modest 'test' order a couple weeks ago, which should be arriving at the end of June, looking forward to trying it out. That's weird if it uses the same board as the AY+, I thought the "S" (sports?) -line was meant to be separate from the earlier ones (and that they'd keep manufacturing the "basic" models too), since KS16S and apparently KS14S use different boards and motors with different firmware without compatibility with the older models, whereas KS18AY+ is marked with same version number and change log as the KS14A/B/C, KS16A/B/C and KS18A/A+/AZ+ in their json-manifest. I didn't even realize there are so many different revisions of the KS18 Of course the actual file-links point to different firmware binary files, maybe they use the same codebase with some #define/#ifdef-branching to build specific versions for the older models... KS14D is marked having a different version number and changelog, so it's probably different. KS16S isn't even listed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 30 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Yeah, about two months, but it takes about 7-8 weeks from order time to actual possession of goods. If one looks at the 18S objectively, doesn't really get the juices flowing much more than the 18AY+: same shell, same battery packs, same control-board (slightly different firmware), motor with a nominal 20% higher rating (does it really matter beyond 1200W anyways?). There's been zero marketing from KS, no videos, no discussion about how wonderful it is. I've put in a modest 'test' order a couple weeks ago, which should be arriving at the end of June, looking forward to trying it out. It's actually a totally new designed board like 16s ,more capacitors, 350amp Mosfets, 60amp(2x30) fuse, batteries now paralleled directly to the board, not anymore daisy chained etc etc, also new heatsink, new pedal arms and yes new firmware etc...photos of the board and the rest can be found on Facebook.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/kingsong/permalink/1320680011341369/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/kingsong/permalink/1326235184119185/ on all other statements you are right....KS is bad in marketing and I also found it ridiculous to sell the 18S with 680wh... also they got far back in the 84Volt game to GW....but I am no friend of serializing 18650 higher and higher....but that's another story But some points let me still believe in them: And that's better boards, better wires, better quality..also an Russian Interview with their Boss: they Are NOT on the "speed" road, there attempt is to have a safe, never cutting out wheel.... for me personal: i have an 45kmh able GW V3 and a first batch Ks18 1200watt 40kmh....Never drove any of it past 36-38kmh....anymore I found ridiculous....and I certainly will not do that with any other wheel, I love my life :-) Just looking for the kind of more "power reserves" and more safety... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideMc Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 16 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Well, I wouldn't say that the Monster is "more of a regular ..." In my opinion the Monster is a specialty wheel. If you want a more general purpose wheel then stick with the 18" wheel (since those are the two choices you offered). I'm biased towards Gotway (only because I really enjoy all of their products) so of course I would recommend the MSuper over the KS18. If you want a less powerful, slower, but safer wheel, then stick with KingSong. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I look forward to that. I don't think that I've read any detailed comparison between the MSuper and the KS18S, from people who really know both wheels. I guess no one is having a 18S until now....that's the prob :-) Just saving the money...then we will see :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 56 minutes ago, esaj said: KS16S isn't even listed yet. ??? you can order it from Ks France or 1radwerkstatt or or or :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: ??? you can order it from Ks France or 1radwerkstatt or or or :-) I have the KS16S, from 1RadWerkstatt, I was talking about the available (updated) firmwares listed in http://apkdomain.duapp.com/kingsong/versions.json where the app parses them from and downloads the updated binary. The changelogs and versioncodes ("125") are same for most of the models ("version names" differ, for whatever reason), except for KS14D. KS16S apparently has no firmware update yet. The point was, I'd be surprised if KS18S uses the same mainboard as KS18AY+, as the AY+ firmware seems to be based on the same code as the other KS14 B/BA/BC/C/CZ/CY & KS16 A/B/C -models and the earlier KS18's (A, A+, AZ+ in addition to AY+). Also, the model naming makes little sense (A/B/C vs. A/A+/AZ+/AY+ etc.), and makes it easy to mix up the different models, although the differences aren't probably that great. Actually, looking at the app logics, the difference between them seems to be the battery size, like KS16A = 340Wh, B = 680Wh, C=840Wh, because they use those identifiers to pick a constant for calculating remaining mileage from battery voltage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, esaj said: I have the KS16S, from 1RadWerkstatt, I was talking about the available (updated) firmwares listed in http://apkdomain.duapp.com/kingsong/versions.json where the app parses them from and downloads the updated binary. The changelogs and versioncodes ("125") are same for most of the models ("version names" differ, for whatever reason), except for KS14D. KS16S apparently has no firmware update yet. The point was, I'd be surprised if KS18S uses the same mainboard as KS18AY+, as the AY+ firmware seems to be based on the same code as the other KS14 B/BA/BC/C/CZ/CY & KS16 A/B/C -models and the earlier KS18's (A, A+, AZ+ in addition to AY+). Also, the model naming makes little sense (A/B/C vs. A/A+/AZ+/AY+ etc.), and makes it easy to mix up the different models, although the differences aren't probably that great. Actually, looking at the app logics, the difference between them seems to be the battery size, like KS16A = 340Wh, B = 680Wh, C=840Wh, because they use those identifiers to pick a constant for calculating remaining mileage from battery voltage... You have the 16s? Congrats....I did thought you have bought a used normal Ks16... actually you are guessing wrong: 16A: prototype Version nobody "normal " owns 16B: normal sold version over a year, which even got some board upgrades...till to board v1.3 16C: only difference to 16B: pedaltype not rubber...same now as 14D with skateboard tape 18A: First version of 1200wh(I have one) 18AZ: second version, minor upgrades 18Ay: third and best version of 1200wh, new motor and other board version! the "+" or "++" or even no plus is standing for batterie type versions, 18S: new 1500Watt and new board, as posted above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: You have the 16s? Congrats....I did thought you have bought a used normal Ks16... I got both But haven't been able to ride since last Friday due to flu & fever, that thankfully seems to have almost passed now... 6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: actually you are guessing wrong Yep, was wrong, looking at the actual code, it's not the actually model-letters, but part of the SN it reads for the remaining mileage "guessing", like "KS18A1", "KS18A2"... "KS18A6". I just remembered there was a big if/else -block with something concerning the model numbers that set a factor for the mileage calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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