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How do EUCs detect their current speed?


RooMiniPro

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I am trying to find a way to get around the speed limit on my MiniPro.  A few of us have come up with some interesting methods such as riding it backwards (as it does 25+kph in reverse) and reversing the hall sensor magnets to reverse the steering.  But now I'm looking for a way to increase the speed going forward.  First I need to understand how exactly devices like this detect their current speed.  Assuming it's based on rpm, I'm wondering if the system can be tricked/hacked/modified to think the rpm is lower than it is.  As my Ninebot EUC is so simple compared to the MiniPro I am starting with that as a basis to begin understanding this.  I thought I'd ask in the EUC section and see if any of you are experts in this that could chime in on the thread here: 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/26/2017 at 9:50 PM, RooMiniPro said:

I am trying to find a way to get around the speed limit on my MiniPro.  A few of us have come up with some interesting methods such as riding it backwards (as it does 25+kph in reverse) and reversing the hall sensor magnets to reverse the steering.  But now I'm looking for a way to increase the speed going forward.  First I need to understand how exactly devices like this detect their current speed.  Assuming it's based on rpm, I'm wondering if the system can be tricked/hacked/modified to think the rpm is lower than it is.  As my Ninebot EUC is so simple compared to the MiniPro I am starting with that as a basis to begin understanding this.  I thought I'd ask in the EUC section and see if any of you are experts in this that could chime in on the thread here: 

 

Don't do it. You don't know what you are doing. You need to study motor technology before you do that. A DC motor can only spin up to a rpm by design and it will fail to balance if you exceed that. Without increasing the voltage or rewinding the motor could with less turn. they will fail to balance you. Study before to try. Just trying to save you from injury. Study why a motor can only spin up to a certain RPM. 

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13 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Don't do it. You don't know what you are doing. You need to study motor technology before you do that. A DC motor can only spin up to a rpm by design and it will fail to balance if you exceed that. Without increasing the voltage or rewinding the motor could with less turn. they will fail to balance you. Study before to try. Just trying to save you from injury. Study why a motor can only spin up to a certain RPM. 

There seems to be an interest lately in making certain wheels go faster then they are designed for :facepalm:

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

There seems to be an interest lately in making certain wheels go faster then they are designed for :facepalm:

There's no need to face palm - save it for your spelling.  I'm talking about making the MiniPro go slightly faster.  And it is perfectly capable of going 20-22kph safely. Some of us have been testing it over the last few weeks using the reverse mod.  It just has an artificially low speed limit to stop the obese, idiotic and clumsy riders that make up a significant portion of the MiniPro customer base from suing Ninebot.  I think you would want two or three kph more than 17.5 out of the MiniPro after riding your Monster at 40-50kph all day.

 

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16 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Don't do it. You don't know what you are doing. You need to study motor technology before you do that. A DC motor can only spin up to a rpm by design and it will fail to balance if you exceed that. Without increasing the voltage or rewinding the motor could with less turn. they will fail to balance you. Study before to try. Just trying to save you from injury. Study why a motor can only spin up to a certain RPM. 

Thanks for your concern.  It has already been demonstrably proven that the MiniPro motors can sustain up to 25kph with power left for balance and hills, as the reverse speed limit is 25kph in this unit, but in forward motion it is only 17.5. I understand why a given motor has the top speed that it does.  I was asking how exactly the system detects the speed it is going.  That would help me complete the understanding of the speed limit in this unit and how the forward limit is controlled and different from the reverse limit.  It could also potentially enable me to find a way to increase it slightly when going forward instead of having to ride it backwards. 

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1 hour ago, RooMiniPro said:

There's no need to face palm - save it for your spelling.

I thought this forum was immune to criticisms of spelling/grammar/usage, etc, and focused its energy instead on ideas and constructive conversation, for the most part. This is the first criticism I've seen based on spelling since I've been a part of the Electric Unicycle Forum for the last year and a half or so. I hope it is the last, since it adds very little to the merits of a discussion, unless the spelling/usage error makes the question or a response impossible to understand.

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@RooMiniPro, so to answer your question, which I must confess I am disinclined to do after your unnecessary rudeness.

These motors are brushless outrunners, the controller has to know exactly where the magnets are at any given time so as to energise the correct coil at the right time. I.e. The RPM the motor is doing is inherently known to the controller in order for it to be able to control it. Hall effect transistors mounted close to the magnets are used to detect that magnet position. Muck about with any of that physical circuitry and the motor ain't gonna run properly, are probably at all.

Of course there are two easy ways to get it to go faster:

  1. Put bigger wheels on it - that will make it faster with the same RPM.
  2. Hack the software to increase the RPM parameter.
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1 hour ago, dbfrese said:

I thought this forum was immune to criticisms of spelling/grammar/usage, etc, and focused its energy instead on ideas and constructive conversation, for the most part. This is the first criticism I've seen based on spelling since I've been a part of the Electric Unicycle Forum for the last year and a half or so. I hope it is the last, since it adds very little to the merits of a discussion, unless the spelling/usage error makes the question or a response impossible to understand.

I think he didn't like my comment regarding pushing wheels past their advertised speed, so he hit me back because of some spelling errors. I'm going to have to use a spell check now :crying: because I don't want to come across as an imbecile.  No worries, it's all in jest :P

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17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think he didn't like my comment regarding pushing wheels past their advertised speed, so he hit me back because of some spelling errors. I'm going to have to use a spell check now :crying: because I don't want to come across as an imbecile.  No worries, it's all in jest :P

Let me ask@Hunka Hunka Burning Love what's going on!  Hey buddy...Marty wants to know if Canadians are still upset at Americans because of Trump?;)

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Just now, Marty Backe said:

I'm going to have to use a spell check now

Yeah, but the then/than confusion would not normally be picked up by a mere spell checker. Microsoft word might pick up matters of usage like that, but who wants to write everything in Word?

The other issue is I post quite a bit using my phone, and my Swype-type keyboard puts in some really funky things sometimes rather than what I intended. I try to proof everything before I post it, but usually have to edit it again one posted! 

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2 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Thanks for your concern.  It has already been demonstrably proven that the MiniPro motors can sustain up to 25kph with power left for balance and hills, as the reverse speed limit is 25kph in this unit, but in forward motion it is only 17.5. I understand why a given motor has the top speed that it does.  I was asking how exactly the system detects the speed it is going.  That would help me complete the understanding of the speed limit in this unit and how the forward limit is controlled and different from the reverse limit.  It could also potentially enable me to find a way to increase it slightly when going forward instead of having to ride it backwards. 

to understand the wheel limit you need to be an engineer. You need to know how many poles and how many slots the motor has. You need to know the gap between the stator and rotor, you need to know the number of turns each slot. then confirm the coil resistance and coil inductance. Also what kind of magnets n45, n52? Then voltage.

I understand you are exploring but his is a machine and there is no need to do it the way you are doing it. search BLDC design or BLDC symulator like 

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/hub-motors.html

https://www.emetor.com/blog/post/user-guide-electric-motor-winding-calculator/

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16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm going to have to use a spell check now 

Yes really helps a lot, I once wrote an entire user manual for a multiplexer in which I repeatedly mentioned "duel processors" Strangely enough my spell checker just didn't notice it, but my students sure did ?.

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Just now, Hatchet said:

Many of us love Trump. We aren't all lily-livered SJW cucks in Canada. ...most of us are though, to be fair^_^

Awesome! 

 

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1 hour ago, dbfrese said:

Yeah, but the then/than confusion would not normally be picked up by a mere spell checker. Microsoft word might pick up matters of usage like that, but who wants to write everything in Word?

The other issue is I post quite a bit using my phone, and my Swype-type keyboard puts in some really funky things sometimes rather than what I intended. I try to proof everything before I post it, but usually have to edit it again one posted! 

then/than - that's a grammar checker. If that was my mistake then I need to use a grammar checker too  :crying:

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2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Let me ask@Hunka Hunka Burning Love what's going on!  Hey buddy...Marty wants to know if Canadians are still upset at Americans because of Trump?;)

Don't ask me!  :efef2e0fff:  I am barely cognizant of my current surroundings and state of mind :eff02518bb:.

We love Amar'kans!  :efeeec645d:  Heya neighbour!  We might not see eye to eye on all subjects, but that's fine.  Trump is always entertaining to watch on the news to see what comes out of his mouth/Twitter/policy planning next.  Makes for good TV!  :thumbup:  @Marty Backe is fine just the way he is.  He don't need no stinkin' spelling, grammar, or grandma checker!  I don't expect that everyone will always get along with each other on the forums, but I hope that most of us get along with the majority of others in a mature, respectful manner.  We're all the same flesh and blood and share common interests.  Why not make an effort to be friendly I always say?  To each their own of course as not all Canadians are really Canadians.  :eff05cf9bc:

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Don't ask me!  :efef2e0fff:  I am barely cognizant of my current surroundings and state of mind :eff02518bb:.

We love Amar'kans!  :efeeec645d:  Heya neighbour!  We might not see eye to eye on all subjects, but that's fine.  Trump is always entertaining to watch on the news to see what comes out of his mouth/Twitter/policy planning next.  Makes for good TV!  :thumbup:  @Marty Backe is fine just the way he is.  He don't need no stinkin' spelling, grammar, or grandma checker!  I don't expect that everyone will always get along with each other on the forums, but I hope that most of us get along with the majority of others in a mature, respectful manner.  We're all the same flesh and blood and share common interests.  Why not make an effort to be friendly I always say?  To each their own of course as not all Canadians are really Canadians.  :eff05cf9bc:

I saw no apology in that post...faker!  No Canadian can type that many words and not apologize somewhere!

...Aww, I'm sorry aboot that, damn my Canadian anger!. Cheers!

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Thread Compendium

Get around the speed limit---> don't do it----> making wheels to go faster than designed--->thanks for your concern---> love Trump---> need to use a grammar checker--->don't ask me:P 

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