Newbie jumping on the KS-16S train

[Vislike]

Hi,

My first post here, but have been a long time reader, and today i wanted to share my first few days with my first wheel.

Got my KS-16S at the end of last week, this is my first wheel, and i must say i was one of those "how hard can it be" guys, but man this was way more difficult then i imagined.

During friday evening i unpacked the thing, and inflated the tire, following advice from this forum, since i am a pretty heavy guy (110kg) i went with 53 psi. Afterward i spent some time mounting it while holding a wall, and it was then i started to realize it is a lot harder then it seams from all the videos. I had to move to a doorway so i could hold both sides and was finally able to get up on the thing and start to feel the balance by rolling back and forward while still holding onto the walls. During that evening i continued to mount and dismount at regular intervalls close to i guess ~20 times, and at the end was able to also mound by just holding one wall not needing a doorway anymore.

Saturday morning i figured to take it out for some "wallriding", as in riding slowly forward while sticking one arm to the wall. I must say i had a lot of trouble with this, got really tiered in the arm, and i figured i put a lot of the weight on the arm since i din't want to fall the otherside since then i had to step off since no wall to catch. Overall this felt very awkward and i had a lot of trouble with the balance, and since i have no padding on the wheel i was really scared to have to jump off and let i fall on the asphalt, and that might have affected me as well. So i can't recommend this method, at least it did not work that well for me, so i decided to quit and took my wheel inside again.

Saturday evening it was time again, this time i had built up a lot of mental willpower i was like "now i am gonna go out and will not return again before i can successfully ride at least 20 meters without stepping off". This time i went to a nearby grass area with some trees. And i took the more or less "all in" approach, that is i used a tree to help me get up on the euc but then nothing to hold onto, so i just tried to lean forward and get going, and oh man this is hard, first 10+ times i would basically not move at all, just had to step off immediately. After a lot of attempts i finally started to move forward a bit before completely loosing balance and step off again. And after a lot more tries, i could move a few meters but still had no control, if the wheel wanted to turn right i just had to try my best to follow thru before i had to jump off.

After about one hour (including breaks to catch my breath) i started to feel somewhat a little more confident and tried to lean forward more to get more speed, and this is the turning point. It was a lot easier too keep balance when i went for a little more speed, and the grass helped to ease my worry of damaging the case, since many of my step offs so far resulted in the wheel falling over, but it seams to land very soft on the grass. The second aha moment came to me maybe 10-15 minutes later, this might be what some people refer to as the "snap", it was then my body realized to not move the upper part of the body but instead use the hips to control balance. And after this discovery i was able to reach the goal of 20 meters, and had a blast going from tree to tree and learning to turn the wheel, and i learned that it is a lot easier for me to make a right turn instead of a left turn. After about two hours total i decided to head home again, i must say i was very exhausted at this point and was almost shaking in my body, but with all my built up confidence from the grass i decided to try to ride home on the asphalt. It started good, a bit shaky but i moved forward and i did not feel like i was going to fall, but after i decided to try increase the speed then the wheel started to wobble heavily. This got me very worried so i decided to roll the wheel home and research if it is normal to feel this "wobbling".

After some research i found that a lot of forum members reported wobbling when they where beginners as well, so i have decided to not worry about it for now.

Sunday morning when i woke up, oh man was i sore. My lower back muscles hurt when i steeped out of the bed and the inside of the legs feels like they are burning when i touch the skin. But it was so much fun so during the evening i had to take it out again, i tried it on the road outside, and i think it wobbled less, but still some wobbles, but all the pain made me only ride for about 5 min before i decided to call it quits. I must also say that it requires a lot of concentration for me to ride, and i tend to tense a lot of muscles, this also put a lot of stress on the brain and i felt a headache was incoming, that was another reason to relax the rest of the day.

Fast-forward to today and my back muscles feels a lot better, but i still feel sore on the inside of the legs. But i still can't wait until i get home from work to take it out for another spin!

[Keith]

1 hour ago, Vislike said:

since i am a pretty heavy guy (110kg) i went with 53 psi.

Excellent first post and a warm welcome to the forum ?.

The higher your tire pressure, the more "skittish" the wheel will feel. 53p.s.i. may well be correct for your weight, but I do suspect it is too high when you are just starting out and will make it just that little bit harder for you than it need be.

Can I recommend you lower to (say) 40-45p.s.i. and get a friend to photograph the tire side on whilst you stand on the wheel supported gently against a wall. If the tire is compressing to still more than half its depth at the bottom then that is plenty whilst learning. Increase the pressure, if you need to, before reaching the stage where you are riding down kerbs, etc which might damage the rim.

i experimented with higher pressures some time ago, as the higher the pressure the greater the range, however beyond a certain point it started to feel like I was riding on ice. Even persevering with it for several days it never felt comfortable.

Once you can ride comfortably you will soon be able to find the ideal pressure for your weight and riding style.

As mentioned quite a few times before, a loosely held strap (with emphasis on "loosely") will go along way to preventing the wheel running away from you and preventing the peddles banging into your ankles if you jump off. Just quickly lift the wheel into the air.

[meepmeepmayer]

Hello! One more!

Seems like you learned quite fast. And on days off, your brain will still learn and you will be better when you try again without having actually practiced. So don't have a bad conscience about breaks, they are part of the learning process.

The cause of the wobble is a bit of a mystery here. I'm convinced it is merely a consequence when your legs aren't relaxed. I only get the wobble (and even then rarely) when my feet are notably tired and getting cramped, or in strong unsteady gusty wind (which would also stop the legs from relaxing). Maybe the wheel naturally wobbles, but relaxed legs will naturally counteract and unrelaxed won't. Or maybe unrelaxed legs react too slow and amplify the wrong motions instead of counteracting them?

Anyways, the more you learn, it will go away.

[kour]

congrats! yeah, the wobble is something i'm still dealing with on occasion, but there's much less of it now. in fact, yesterday a new kind of 'wobble' appeared for me when i was going downhill at a higher speed on a street; it was like, not as fidgety and slower, if that makes any sense.. and i think @meepmeepmayer is right about the amplifying effects of tired or unrelaxed legs/ankles. it definitely takes concentration! keep it up!

[EricGhost]

Try a roller park with handlers all around the perimeter, it's the best in my opinion

 

[FreeRide]

Excellent, you got further than me on my first attempts  

 

[Dingfelder]

Grats on your new wheel and welcome to the forum!

I'm waiting on my first one too and will take your story about how sore your back got to heart.  My back is not so great and I need to lift heavy things at work, so I will keep my practice sessions short at first -- if I can manage to be disciplined enough!

It sounds like you are having a good time learning.  Good luck!  And maybe get some foam padding for your wheel?  Amazon, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. all have that kind of thing.

 

[Vislike]

Thanks for all the comments.

Keith:
I guess you are right that letting out some air will help learning but around where i live we have some parts of the road as cobblestone and some part as gravel so i really want to minimize my chances of getting a flat, and as i have understand it higher pressure will help regarding that.

About the wobble:
My guess is that you who suggested that the wobbled is (at least partially) due to tired muscles in the legs are on the right track. I took my wheel out for a spin last night and this is how it went:
- First 300m went ok, i was driving a little faster than walking speed, but did notice very little wobble.
- Then i decided to take the about 100m decline down to the river. But this was harder then expected. I started to loose control while breaking so had to jump off, managed to land on feet but the king song got its first smal scratches. So i opted to walk down the rest of the decline.
- At the bottom i mounted again and continued about another 200m on the road, but after about 150m it started to wobble, and after the other 50m it wobbled so hard that i decided to hit the breaks. This was then i noticed that my feet hurt, and how tired my legs where. This is why i think you theories about leg exhaustion has some merit.
- I sat down some mins and rested, and decided to head back home. The first 200m back to the now ascent also ended in me loosing balance so i had to rest before i could try the climb.
- The climb went well, this is a lot easier then going downhill, but had to rest at the top again.
- And the 300m back home that went well when i was well rested had to be taken in 3 stages on my way home. As soon as i felt the wobble starting i stopped to rest some more.
- King Song app says the ride was 1.5km, and i am not sure how accurate that is, or how accurate my estimates where, but they ended up about the same, so i guess they can't be to of.

So my conclusion for now is that i am currently lacking the muscle strength and stamina in my legs. But this is something more exercise and practice will for sure help with.

[Scatcat]

On 2017-05-23 at 3:42 PM, Vislike said:

Thanks for all the comments.

...

So my conclusion for now is that i am currently lacking the muscle strength and stamina in my legs. But this is something more exercise and practice will for sure help with.

Check the position of your feet when you place the strong one on the pedal. When bending your leg slightly the bones in the leg should more or less be over the axle of the wheel. As @HermanTheGerman noted in another thread, standing too far back creates wobbling going forward, and vice versa.

 

[Vislike]

Update after 10 km total, had to take a few days off to let the inside of my legs rest.

I now feel that i can start from anywhere as long as i can hold my hand on something to get on the wheel (lamppost, park bench, wall, tree, etc). Still struggling some with balance but it feel it has improved a lot the last few days, the last two attempts in going down the same decline as before went very well. The cramp in the feet takes longer and longer before it kicks in, so i think i ride somewhat more relaxed.

I have been riding on the walking/bicycle lane outside where i live, but i still feel very insecure in traffic. I don't feel that i have total control, i feel i can stay on one half of the bicycle lane but not more accurate then that. My muscles tend to be very tense when i get close to other people and i can't look backwards at all, so basically have to look back before i start and hope no one decide to pass me to close. Most people i meet thou have the curiosity look in their eyes and seam to understand the balance thing and keep their distance to the other side of the lane. But my guess is that i will meet more people from the other side of the spectrum as well, in my first 10 km i met my first "creepy" dude, that after i stopped to get some rest pulled out his phone and was like "wow that seam so cool, please continue to ride", and i was like "i need some rest", but he was like "please go on, just a little bit". The situation felt very creepy and since he had friend who was loading up in a car nearby i just jumped up and went another 200m ignoring the pain in my legs just to get away.

Still loving it and looking forward to ride a lot more this weekend.

 

[Christoph Zens]

1 hour ago, Vislike said:

I have been riding on the walking/bicycle lane outside where i live, but i still feel very insecure in traffic. I don't feel that i have total control

That's perfectly normal after only 10km. I got a new wheel myself, but that's after riding 2000km on a Ninebot One. Even so, I am not riding the new wheel out in public yet, since I for myself demand total control of the wheel first. There are so many things going on around you, so many unexpected situations, that control of the wheel needs to be fully automatic. Since I got the new wheel, I logged 25km of training in a controlled environment (private ground), doing figure 8 for at least an hour total, high speed turns to get to know ground clearance (possible lean angle until the pedals touch ground), power braking to get a feel for minimum braking distance, spot turns (180 degree on the spot), backward driving, riding at crawling speed, stop-and-go without dismount, tight slalom figures, just everything you will need when out riding.

On my first wheel, I did 100km training before I dared to go out riding. Even then I was nervous... So, I think you are very brave to already take the challenge. While I think that's a valid approach to learn, I would also advise to take the time for some systematic training, doing the same thing over and over again until it works out consistently well, then concentrate on the next challenge. Minimum maneuvers to train (as far as I am concerned) are crawling speed, stop-and-go (stop for at least a second, then continue without dismounting), spot turn, power brake, and proper control of the lean angle during high speed turns. That's the basic skills you will need often during normal riding.

Good luck and don't forget to relax and have some fun too. You seem pretty talented 

Edit: Don't forget to train stopping midway through a turn. Like on a motorcycle, you will have to get the unit back upright at the same time you decelerate, or you will tip over (to the inside). Also a very useful skill, in case there is an obstacle coming up in a turn which you could not fully see through.

[Vislike]

12 minutes ago, Christoph Zens said:

Since I got the new wheel, I logged 25km of training in a controlled environment (private ground),

I would love to have a place like that, but unfortunately i have nothing like that close to where i live. And walking with the wheel to there nearest busstop to take the buss for 20 minutes and then only having the strength to ride 30-60 min before going back is not to attractive to me :/

16 minutes ago, Christoph Zens said:

So, I think you are very brave to already take the challenge.

Hmm, maybe more stupid then brave that you put it in your perspective, i guess time will tell, i really fear to accidentally tumble into another person. But i don't see i have much options for learning, i could continue on the same grass i started on, and that might be a good idea, at least to learn tight turns and stop and go without support, i won't hurt myself or the wheel that much if i fall during a tight turn.

My thought on the learning matter was to as "quickly" as possible build enough bike lane experience that i might start riding the wheel to work instead of walking. And that would help improve the riding skill a lot. But as i said in my first post, it looked a lot easier then it is. And i don't feel close to confident enough to take it to work yet.

[Christoph Zens]

5 minutes ago, Vislike said:

My thought on the learning matter was to as "quickly" as possible build enough bike lane experience that i might start riding the wheel to work instead of walking. And that would help improve the riding skill a lot.

That makes a lot of sense. In fact, when I started to ride in public, I also took it to work every day, which is around 3km each direction. It really helped to build up confidence and allow for a relaxed ride. While dedicated training is useful to build up skills, it can never replace actual riding in public. Even after 100km training and supposedly enough skills to handle most situations that may arise, you really don't know. I started out as tense and uneasy as if I would not have had a training at all. So, I guess there is something about that saying we have in German, about the 'jump into the cold water'... Sooner or later, you'll have to do it anyways.

[Dingfelder]

That sounds like a very sensible approach, Christoph.  I will do something similar, riding around quite a lot on the grounds of the development where I live before I even think of going out in traffic and on public paths.

I want to set up a slalom course so I can practice lots of turns of varying size, too,.  I just bought a set of a dozen mini traffic cones (7 inches high) to help set one up.

[meepmeepmayer]

Not being able to look back, insecurity, etc will go away on its own. At the start, I could not look much to the side and now, one day realized I can turn my neck as far as physically possible without even knowing when that got better. Insecurity may take a bit longer, still got spooked by an unpredictably behaving fast car in an intersection after 450km and had an involuntary step down/spin out (my poor ACM's first new scratches).

1 hour ago, Christoph Zens said:

Good luck and don't forget to relax and have some fun too.

And this

I'm in the "reality is the best training" camp so don't worry about training in public, just know what you can and cannot reasonably do (to you and your wheel).

[Dingfelder]

I just got a rear-view mirror for my helmet so I wouldn't have to worry about throwing my balance off by twisting myself about to look backwards.

[abinder3]

Actually, the one thing that helped improve my riding was taking the wheel off road.  You learn to feel the wheel more and it seemed to improve my balance.

When I was first learning, any left or right movement of the wheel when riding would scare the heck out of me.  Off roading helped me to realize that the 'left and right movement' of the wheel is totally natural as it's just adjusting tot he terrain.

Try it sometime by maybe riding on some grass where the ground isn't totally flat.  You'll be amazed at how you get use of your wheel moving around under you without actually crashing.  Then later, when on smooth surfaces, small irregularities won't bother you one bit.
(I sort of got introduced to much harsher off roading when going on my first ride with @Marty Backe, but that 'adventure' I truly believed helped my riding soooo much.)

 

Allen

[Scatcat]

52 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Actually, the one thing that helped improve my riding was taking the wheel off road.  You learn to feel the wheel more and it seemed to improve my balance.

When I was first learning, any left or right movement of the wheel when riding would scare the heck out of me.  Off roading helped me to realize that the 'left and right movement' of the wheel is totally natural as it's just adjusting tot he terrain.

Try it sometime by maybe riding on some grass where the ground isn't totally flat.  You'll be amazed at how you get use of your wheel moving around under you without actually crashing.  Then later, when on smooth surfaces, small irregularities won't bother you one bit.
(I sort of got introduced to much harsher off roading when going on my first ride with @Marty Backe, but that 'adventure' I truly believed helped my riding soooo much.)

 

Allen

Yeah. I read you. I started relaxing more after going on gravel and bumpy roads. Now already I usually don't worry about small movement sideways. The only time I get worried, is if I've stepped on a bit too far back, especially if the feet aren't even. Then when you speed up you can get wobbles and a sense of drifting, that makes med tense up. I'm getting there, but that part is not totally natural yet.

Usually it is enough to stop, step off, step on and go again. Finding a more natural balance and position, but I'm still not where I can do that without stopping.

[Vislike]

Last update, currently 32km total in app.

Achieved my first goal of riding to work today, so now i consider the mission complete. According to the app, the route to work was 3.2km.

The last few days i have been able to go further and further, all pain in the legs is gone, only have some foot cramps left and they kick in after a few km:s. And as some of you have mentioned before in this thread, i was apparently standing to far back on the pedals, i have pretty big feet, and i have used one of the beginner videos as reference that guy had his heel stick out about a cm, and the toes a few more, so i thought to maybe just adjust that for me and stick the heel out a ~3-4cm and the toes ~7-8 (just guessing numbers, have not measured). But i get a lot better balance if i stick the toes out more close to ~10cm and the heels just a bit. So can now quite comfortable ride at 20km/h (the locked speed). I currently don't plan to unlock it, but instead go the 100km to get the auto unlock, since i feel 20km/h is quite enough for know. I really like the tilt back functionality and i think it is very soft in KS16S, but i have no reference with other wheels, but i never feel like i am about to be thrown off, more like "hey speed down".