Mistagear Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 On 1/17/2016 at 1:47 AM, Colestien said: @Mistagear did you say 26"?? I read your post a second time before I caught that. Are you the man riding the modified Kingsong with the 26" wheel? riding for charity? Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 That is sweet. Neal said he most likely wouldn't be selling them. I'm interested though. How does it ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeprisFin Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm glad you guys brought daylight to the kingsongs serial connected batteries issue. I'm going to buy my EUC tomorrow. My first EUC will be 18" Gotway Msuper (unless someone turns my head within these few hours before I click the "confirm" button. My current decision is based on the overheating issue and the serial connected batteries issue. Top of that I'm worried how king song can handle the moisture and below zero temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I moved the battery discussion here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik3 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I already own KS14 and I was already made my mind of buying the KS18 840wh, but after there battery findings I ordered GW18. Mainly because how I will use my 18" euc - off-road and carrying my boulder pad. But to the point, can I use my 4A charger from my KS14 to charge the GW18 also? The power connector is the same, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 1 hour ago, mik3 said: I already own KS14 and I was already made my mind of buying the KS18 840wh, but after there battery findings I ordered GW18. Mainly because how I will use my 18" euc - off-road and carrying my boulder pad. But to the point, can I use my 4A charger from my KS14 to charge the GW18 also? The power connector is the same, isn't it? Better to check that the polarity is correct before plugging it in, if memory serves, there might not be a reverse-polarity protection diode in the GW BMS, and if there's not + the polarity is wrong, you're basically short circuiting the battery through the charger -> a very bad thing. Be very, very careful if you choose to go this route, and double check the polarity before plugging. If it's wrong, the batteries might blow up in an instant. Safest route is not to even try it Other than that, 4A should be fine with the large battery packs of the GW18 (there's 4 or 5 packs there, right? So it should be "only" 1A per pack, way below 1C), as long as the wiring and charge port can take it without overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik3 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Shiiit, thank you for the info. That doesn't sound tempting at all. The basic charger is 2A I think, does GW even make "superchargers" or are those that people talk of just custom/self made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, mik3 said: Shiiit, thank you for the info. That doesn't sound tempting at all. The basic charger is 2A I think, does GW even make "superchargers" or are those that people talk of just custom/self made? At least @1RadWerkstatt was selling something like 5A or 8A charger with their >1kWh packs for MSuper, but their packs also use different connectors (rated for much higher amps than the "usual" connectors) and different charge port. Other than that, I don't know what chargers people are using, I bought a 4A charger from vee for the Firewheel (originally it was for MCM2s) for faster charging, it had the correct GX16 or whatever it's called connector and correct polarity. In principle, as long as the the voltage and polarity are correct, you can use chargers from different wheels (and as long as the amperage isn't too high for the wiring/connectors/cells). Of course getting the cheapest off-the-shelf charger with XXX amps might not always be the best way to go (quality-wise), some of the blowing hoverboards have been attributed to low quality chargers too, and not always just low quality battery cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obly Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 On 1/18/2016 at 9:12 PM, zlymex said: I thought too that all packs are better in parallel, simultaneously charging & discharging. I was very surprised to see the actual connections which not only gives less output current but also problematic when charging(charging happens during riding). As a matter of fact, the unit I opened for repair was damaged in the charging circuit of the third pack. Also, it won't allow fast charging like I charge my MSuper2 with a 5A charger. Sorry to be playing catch-up on old threads, but it's interesting that this revelation on the KS-18's battery pack configuration seems to have dampened some of the enthusiasm for the model...? I'm wondering how to use this information to make an informed buying decision, and would appreciate any advice. I'm almost certain I still want a KS-18; the only question is which configuration is going to be the smartest choice. For a US customer, where the 1360Wh battery is not an option (from last I heard, but correct me if that's no longer true), the choices seem to come down to a 680Wh vs. 840Wh battery and 800W vs. 1100W motor. Yes, I know that bigger is always "better", but bigger is also more expensive. Given this information about the output current limitations in the KS-18 batteries, are there diminishing returns on battery size, motor power, or both? Such that it actually makes more sense to pick a less expensive configuration? If it helps to know, I'm more interested in reliable long-distance performance than maximizing speed and acceleration. I don't intend to ride it up mountains, but it obviously needs to be able to handle gentle to moderate inclines safely. I'd like to be able to use it for "gentle" off-roading: unpaved, uneven surfaces (like logging roads) but nothing extreme. And yes, I'm on the heavier side, 95kg or so (though planning on losing it--aren't we all...). Here are some musings I've had (which I admit could be entirely wrong): My instinct is to maximize battery size and sacrifice on motor power. I get that the 1100W motor can probably deliver safer performance for a time while the batteries are full, but as the voltage drops, I'm assuming the current limitations are going to functionally make the 1100W no better than the 800W over the medium to long distances (i.e., the bigger motor can't draw enough current to take advantage of its greater ability). Is this right, or totally off the mark? On the other hand, even if the bigger motor is not delivering better performance, I assume that it must be designed to handle heat better than the smaller motor, yes? So with a heavier rider and longer distances, does the (assumed) advantage in heat handling outweigh the downside of idle motor capacity? Sorry for the long post. I would just hate to pat myself on the back for being frugal only to kick myself in the butt later for being short-sighted. Thanks for any advice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 @Obly For the KS18A I opened the covers with, there are three battery packs, and the important one is the 680Wh pack right in the middle under the top cover that connected directly to the mainboard and withstand most of the current/power. This pack alone is somewhat enough to power the 1100W motor. However, I don't know what kind of batteries inside a 680Wh(or 840Wh) version, it could be one 680Wh pack just like the 1360Wh version(which would be very nice), or could be two fork-shaped(which is not very good considering they may chained thus only one pack bear the instant power). For motors like 1100W or 800W, these are max powers and not necessarily reach that figure all the time. It may be comparable to cars with 3.0L or 2.0L engine, the consumption of gas may not make large different at the same speed but large powered engine has better reserves that handle sudden surge well thus more safety. 1100W motor is thicker than 800W hence handle heat a bit better but the real problem lies in the mainboard that often overheated first before the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yashaya Yasharahla Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 On 1/16/2016 at 6:19 AM, houseofjob said: Yes, that's another thing. I now have an IPS Zero 340wh as well, and I feel a helluva lot more stable on the KS-18A 18" wheel than I do the Zero, especially when riding side by side with cars. Also, this sounds weird to say, but I feel more respected and feared on the KS-18, as it more resembles a motorcycle (mine is black), whereas when riding the Zero, more people make comments, both good and bad, treating me as if I am some little kid on a hoverboard/balance board (I am in my mid-30's). I agree. I own a 14in non-brand euc (for practicing initially before I got the Kingsong) and an 18in Kingsong. I'm 6 feet 2 inches and when I rode the 14in euc, most people laughed at me because I was this huge, black guy (107kg currently) in South Korea on what looks like a moving toy being that it's so small! However, when I rode the 18in Kingsong, many people stopped me to ask what I was riding, and I get more respect... and people are more or so struck with awe/dread when I buzz by them even at slow speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obly Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 @zlymex Thanks for the insight, it's much appreciated. It's tough to make a decision as a new buyer, as it seems there are many potential safety risks that need to be balanced: risk from overleaning, risk from overdrawn batteries, risk from overheating the mainboard, and so on. If I'm understanding correctly, for EUCs with the same battery, the larger motor provides most of its added safety towards the first one (overleaning), but will not especially impact the other two...? I get that no riding style makes you immune from safety risks, but like I said, I'm more interested in long distance reliability than trying to break speed records. Of course going for long distance on rough terrain is just another form of pushing the limits, so maybe I'm trying to find a difference where there isn't one. Has anybody who owns an 840Wh KS-18 opened it up to look at the battery configuration? Having that info might be a little helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotguy Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Hey Obly , I have the KS 18 , 840/800 I'm 95 Kg and have big fat feet . In 40 miles thus far , here are my observations. 1. Big 18 inch wheel ....... Omg I can't imagine how all the bumpy asphalt around here would feel on a smaller wheel . Big is good. 2. I have done several mile long hills , up and down . No problem at all . Pay attention to warning beeps and pedal tilt and you will always be in the safe zone . 3. Factory set 20 kph got old fast . Unlock using the code key and 25 feels much nicer . Also you can silence the first two levels of irritating beeping . Set top speed to 25 and your last warning beeps to 24 . Set the first two to zero and your good to go ! 4. Between the warning beeps , wonderful smooth pedal tilt backs , and reserve current capacity, the KS really is pretty dumb dumb proof . I know all machines can fail and face plants can still happen . I've seen the pics. Also stupid human tricks like severe over lean , not noticing the warning beeps or pedal tilt back etc. is why we wear protective gear . If you haven't yet ordered ........... Wellllll ?????? If you have ........... God speed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 18" is the preferred size for tall riders. I took my own MSuper yesterday out for the short ride at home. On well known tracks it's a huge different against my old 16" IPS. If you compare the case Quality between Kingsong and Gotway than the Gotway is not on first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yashaya Yasharahla Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 12 hours ago, OliverH said: 18" is the preferred size for tall riders. I took my own MSuper yesterday out for the short ride at home. On well known tracks it's a huge different against my old 16" IPS. If you compare the case Quality between Kingsong and Gotway than the Gotway is not on first place. I totally agree. The Kingsong 18in case looks like the Lexus of them all...not the quality, just the look of it: it's shiny (black and white), the curves on it gives it its own kind of unique aerodynamic look, and its height demands respect. On another note, I love blasting Bad by Michael Jackson on the wheel using the Bluetooth because I always feel like a bad ass when I ride through the city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 On 1/16/2016 at 11:57 AM, zlymex said: IMO, disadvantage the KS-18A: ----bulky ----small pedals ----prone to overheat owning to the main-board is complete sealed in the top compartment while the heat-sink of a MSuper2 is exposed to the wheel. ----three battery packs connected in series(not in parallel). I have had my KS 18 for 2 months now and watch the app thermometer closely. No overheating issues, even going up relatively steep hills for long periods with vigor. I love this machine. 100 kg rider H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 On 2/16/2016 at 10:22 PM, Obly said: Sorry to be playing catch-up on old threads, but it's interesting that this revelation on the KS-18's battery pack configuration seems to have dampened some of the enthusiasm for the model...? I'm wondering how to use this information to make an informed buying decision, and would appreciate any advice. I'm almost certain I still want a KS-18; the only question is which configuration is going to be the smartest choice. For a US customer, where the 1360Wh battery is not an option (from last I heard, but correct me if that's no longer true), the choices seem to come down to a 680Wh vs. 840Wh battery and 800W vs. 1100W motor. Yes, I know that bigger is always "better", but bigger is also more expensive. Given this information about the output current limitations in the KS-18 batteries, are there diminishing returns on battery size, motor power, or both? Such that it actually makes more sense to pick a less expensive configuration? If it helps to know, I'm more interested in reliable long-distance performance than maximizing speed and acceleration. I don't intend to ride it up mountains, but it obviously needs to be able to handle gentle to moderate inclines safely. I'd like to be able to use it for "gentle" off-roading: unpaved, uneven surfaces (like logging roads) but nothing extreme. And yes, I'm on the heavier side, 95kg or so (though planning on losing it--aren't we all...). Here are some musings I've had (which I admit could be entirely wrong): My instinct is to maximize battery size and sacrifice on motor power. I get that the 1100W motor can probably deliver safer performance for a time while the batteries are full, but as the voltage drops, I'm assuming the current limitations are going to functionally make the 1100W no better than the 800W over the medium to long distances (i.e., the bigger motor can't draw enough current to take advantage of its greater ability). Is this right, or totally off the mark? On the other hand, even if the bigger motor is not delivering better performance, I assume that it must be designed to handle heat better than the smaller motor, yes? So with a heavier rider and longer distances, does the (assumed) advantage in heat handling outweigh the downside of idle motor capacity? Sorry for the long post. I would just hate to pat myself on the back for being frugal only to kick myself in the butt later for being short-sighted. Thanks for any advice!! I think everyone is overthinking this just a bit. I don't know about current limitations, maybe in theory, but I'm at 100kg and have used my KS 1100/1360 to go up steep hills at roughly 25 - 30 km/hr (pavement). Through the app I watch the temp, have never overheated, and never gone over 30 amps -- usually stays around 15 amp draw but will occasionally spike up to 30 uphill). Yesterday, for testing purposes I took the euc battery indicator down to 2 bars (56v) and went up a hill (maybe 20 degrees, 100 yards) vigorously (with my hands outstretched in case of FP) but didn't have any problems. I cant speak to current limitations from serial connections, etc, all I know is that the euc rides well, has been safe for me, demonstrates plenty of power for the heavier rider that I am, has a comfortable top speed (so far) of 38 km/hr (haven't tried any faster but looks like it can)....and I sit on a modified cushion allowing for hours of riding without any back/leg discomfort at all. I have 2 chargers, one is 2A and the other is 5A. The 5A charges it much faster (maybe 2 hours instead of 6), so I see no current limiting issues there. I'd like anyone who actually rides a KS 18 to weigh in on this idea of current limitations? Seems very theoretical to me. Don't overthink it. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Hansen Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 On 2016-01-13 at 11:46 AM, zlymex said: On 2016-01-13 at 11:46 AM, zlymex said: I personally chose MSuper2 MS 680Wh. I tried twice riding on snow, it was very difficult for me even though I wrapped some hard rope around the tire. However, the EU did a good job, it was the road that difficult to ride. I personally chose MSuper2 MS 680Wh. I tried twice riding on snow, it was very difficult for me even though I wrapped some hard rope around the tire. However, the EU did a good job, it was the road that difficult to ride. Try this , it should work just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 On 14.4.2016 at 10:41 PM, HJ said: I think everyone is overthinking this just a bit. I don't know about current limitations, maybe in theory, but I'm at 100kg and have used my KS 1100/1360 to go up steep hills at roughly 25 - 30 km/hr (pavement). Through the app I watch the temp, have never overheated, and never gone over 30 amps -- usually stays around 15 amp draw but will occasionally spike up to 30 uphill). Yesterday, for testing purposes I took the euc battery indicator down to 2 bars (56v) and went up a hill (maybe 20 degrees, 100 yards) vigorously (with my hands outstretched in case of FP) but didn't have any problems. I cant speak to current limitations from serial connections, etc, all I know is that the euc rides well, has been safe for me, demonstrates plenty of power for the heavier rider that I am, has a comfortable top speed (so far) of 38 km/hr (haven't tried any faster but looks like it can)....and I sit on a modified cushion allowing for hours of riding without any back/leg discomfort at all. I have 2 chargers, one is 2A and the other is 5A. The 5A charges it much faster (maybe 2 hours instead of 6), so I see no current limiting issues there. I'd like anyone who actually rides a KS 18 to weigh in on this idea of current limitations? Seems very theoretical to me. Don't overthink it. H There's a report from zlymex and I think someone else also regarding a 1360 Wh KS18 with overheating and I had this after a downhill track with slow riding in a dry creek. After that (luckily) the KS18 slowed down, tilted the pedals back and let me in a friendly manner step up to take a cooldown with the pedals/ case tilted back. After cooldown the case came back to normal level. This was with a KS18 500W/ 680 Wh (with the old main baord). With the KS16 Kingsong installed a fan to cool down MOSFETS. From your report it looks like they had fixed the issue on the KS18 1100/ 1360. What kind of temperature do you see in the app? Depending on the voltage the 30 A results in close to 2000 W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Usually the temp is 35 - 43 , with a high of 51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.