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18in wheels comparison


johnc415

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@houseofjob.............Completely agree!  I own a 14 " model and a couple 16" models, as well as, since mid December, own a KS 18A.  A little different in the beginning, but that's the way it has been for me even with the change to/from my other models.  I can, WITHOUT A DOUBT, state that there's NOTHING I can do on my 16" that I can't also do on my KS 18A! NOTHING!  However....... there are a few things that I can do on my 18" that I can't do on my 16"ers. :-)

 

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31 minutes ago, Sweet M said:

@houseofjob.............Completely agree!  I own a 14 " model and a couple 16" models, as well as, since mid December, own a KS 18A.  A little different in the beginning, but that's the way it has been for me even with the change to/from my other models.  I can, WITHOUT A DOUBT, state that there's NOTHING I can do on my 16" that I can't also do on my KS 18A! NOTHING!  However....... there are a few things that I can do on my 18" that I can't do on my 16"ers. :-)

 

Thank you @Sweet M Nothing beats actual owner experience!

The only disadvantage the KS-18A has that I can see is it is not physically compact enough to store away like a 14" (nothing to do with performance).

Even the extra ~10 lbs surprisingly does not feel that much heavier than a 30lb Ninebot 16" (I've lifted both side by side).

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IMO, disadvantage the KS-18A:
----bulky
----small pedals
----prone to overheat owning to the main-board is complete sealed in the top compartment while the heat-sink of a MSuper2 is exposed to the wheel.
----three battery packs connected in series(not in parallel).

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12 minutes ago, zlymex said:

IMO, disadvantage the KS-18A:
----bulky
----small pedals
----prone to overheat owning to the main-board is complete sealed in the top compartment while the heat-sink of a MSuper2 is exposed to the wheel.
----three battery packs connected in series(not in parallel).

Is the latest ks18 still overheating? that could be a deal breaker for heavier guys like myself.

my latest 14" no longer overheats

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21 minutes ago, zlymex said:

IMO, disadvantage the KS-18A:
----bulky
----small pedals
----prone to overheat owning to the main-board is complete sealed in the top compartment while the heat-sink of a MSuper2 is exposed to the wheel.
----three battery packs connected in series(not in parallel).

 If they are in series instead of parallel the voltage would be higher?  Unless most of the single batteries are placed in parallel before the BMS the output voltage would be very high. I can see higher voltage higher temp.  If they are not, I can't see why Kingsong isn't advertising they have to first 120 volt (or what ever) wheel on the market.  If single cells are mostly in parallel, the voltage is still around 60+v.  What difference would that make?  @esaj am I missiing something?

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I know next to nothing about batteries, but it appears to me that maybe they look like they are in series but they actually are in parralel due to the wiring inside the pack,  is that possible? When i opened my kingsong 14 the batteries looked like the are in series but i believe it was established they are in parralel? See attached pic.

 

image.jpeg

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It's probably a similar set up as in the Firewheels with 2 or 4 packs: the packs themselves are actually 8S2P (or 4S4P in case of 4-pack models), which are then wired in series to get 16S[2/4]P (in Firewheels).

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1 hour ago, zlymex said:

IMO, disadvantage the KS-18A:
----bulky
----small pedals
----prone to overheat owning to the main-board is complete sealed in the top compartment while the heat-sink of a MSuper2 is exposed to the wheel.
----three battery packs connected in series(not in parallel).

Just because you have overheating, doesn't mean every KS-18A has overheating.

I actually have no clue what you're talking about, my KS-18A MKII has never overheated (not that I live on my unit for hours driving the battery into the ground like some riders.)

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3 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Just because you have overheating, doesn't mean every KS-18A has overheating.

I actually have no clue what you're talking about, my KS-18A MKII has never overheated (not that I live on my unit for hours driving the battery into the ground like some riders.)

@houseofjob how much do you weigh? When i ride with @fearedbliss my wheels temperature is 50 to 60 C and his is in the 30s...weight has a big impact. I am 101kg, he is 59

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19 minutes ago, Colestien said:

Well you guys are going to have to call me "The Torch".  119.748 kg is where I'm at.  I guess my little Generic Ninebot Clone isn't doing to bad.

Finally someone who can put these wheels to a real test!!!!

40 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I guess I don't apply to the overheating issue, I'm 77kg.

Yes, a delta of as little as 10kg can make a difference to the point that someone lighter may never experience overheating while someone heavier will have it all the time, even with the same riding style

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8 hours ago, Cloud said:

Is the latest ks18 still overheating? that could be a deal breaker for heavier guys like myself.

my latest 14" no longer overheats

The two units that prone to overheat were bought last June and last Sept.

8 hours ago, Colestien said:

 If they are in series instead of parallel the voltage would be higher?  Unless most of the single batteries are placed in parallel before the BMS the output voltage would be very high. I can see higher voltage higher temp.  If they are not, I can't see why Kingsong isn't advertising they have to first 120 volt (or what ever) wheel on the market.  If single cells are mostly in parallel, the voltage is still around 60+v.  What difference would that make?  @esaj am I missiing something?

By series connection of packs(not cells), I mean the charger will charge the first pack first, then the output of the first pack will charge the second pack, the output of the second pack will charge the third, finally the output of the third pack will goes to the main-board.

7 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Just because you have overheating, doesn't mean every KS-18A has overheating.

I actually have no clue what you're talking about, my KS-18A MKII has never overheated (not that I live on my unit for hours driving the battery into the ground like some riders.)

Just because you have not experienced in overheating, doesn't mean your unit is not prone to overheat.
Overheating usually happens when two or more of the following conditions are met;
----summer time
----riding fast
----riding uphill
----heavy rider

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16 minutes ago, zlymex said:

By series connection of packs(not cells), I mean the charger will charge the first pack first, then the output of the first pack will charge the second pack, the output of the second pack will charge the third, finally the output of the third pack will goes to the main-board.

That sounds a bit weird. During high discharge couldn't the charge current become too high, or if the simultaneous charge of the pack occurs through the charging side, the BMS could stop the charge due to a protection triggering? If there even is such a thing as high current charge protection?

I could be wrong, but I've always thought it to be better to have the packs in parallel, simultaneously charging & discharging.

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2 minutes ago, esaj said:

That sounds a bit weird. During high discharge couldn't the charge current become too high, or if the simultaneous charge of the pack occurs through the charging side, the BMS could stop the charge due to a protection triggering? If there even is such a thing as high current charge protection?

I could be wrong, but I've always thought it to be better to have the packs in parallel, simultaneously charging & discharging.

I thought too that all packs are better in parallel, simultaneously charging & discharging. I was very surprised to see the actual connections which not only gives less output current but also problematic when charging(charging happens during riding). As a matter of fact, the unit I opened for repair was damaged in the charging circuit of the third pack. Also, it won't allow fast charging like I charge my MSuper2 with a 5A charger.

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3 hours ago, zlymex said:

The two units that prone to overheat were bought last June and last Sept.

By series connection of packs(not cells), I mean the charger will charge the first pack first, then the output of the first pack will charge the second pack, the output of the second pack will charge the third, finally the output of the third pack will goes to the main-board.

Just because you have not experienced in overheating, doesn't mean your unit is not prone to overheat.
Overheating usually happens when two or more of the following conditions are met;
----summer time
----riding fast
----riding uphill
----heavy rider

I experienced the over heat tilt back (cases moves back by at least 10 degrees) after a tricky downhill track with a KS18-500 680 Wh. As I'm a heavy weight rider I don't push the EUs uphill or downhill. This don't happen with a MSuper on an other tour where I also pushed it uphill and never experienced anything beside draining the 850 Wh battery ;) There's a difference. But it looks like Kingsong has beside a PCB design issue (heat is wasted energy, inefficient parts) a perfect and maybe outstanding behaviour handling. In the end there's a root cause analysis necessary to fix/ improve it with the next PCB release.

The new cooling of the Kingsong PCB/ parts on it is acting where heat appears and don't change anything why heat appears. I would assume that a redesign of the PCB can fix this issue also. 

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2 hours ago, zlymex said:

I thought too that all packs are better in parallel, simultaneously charging & discharging. I was very surprised to see the actual connections which not only gives less output current but also problematic when charging(charging happens during riding). As a matter of fact, the unit I opened for repair was damaged in the charging circuit of the third pack. Also, it won't allow fast charging like I charge my MSuper2 with a 5A charger.

This makes sense. On a KS18 500W I wondered that recuperation don't look to be as efficient as on other ones. 

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On 1/17/2016 at 2:18 PM, Cloud said:

Finally someone who can put these wheels to a real test!!!!

Yes, a delta of as little as 10kg can make a difference to the point that someone lighter may never experience overheating while someone heavier will have it all the time, even with the same riding style

Overheating? What's that? Lol!

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9 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

Overheating? What's that? Lol!

Lucky son of a gun, you. Not everyone is so light their battery lasts for 145 miles on a charge. Its ok, one day there will be a hurricane and you will be blown away and gone with  the wind and i will keep rolling grounded to my wheel ! :) 

I like to think that overheating makes me hot! 

 

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5 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Lucky son of a gun, you. Not everyone is so light their battery lasts for 145 miles on a charge. Its ok, one day there will be a hurricane and you will be blown away and gone with  the wind and i will keep rolling grounded to my wheel ! :) 

I like to think that overheating makes me hot! 

 

lmfao funny you mention blown away.. the wind has been blowing me to the sides recently, but I've already adapted like the reptile that I am. Also, it's an interesting experience riding with an umbrella under the rain and wind..

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3 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

lmfao funny you mention blown away.. the wind has been blowing me to the sides recently, but I've already adapted like the reptile that I am. Also, it's an interesting experience riding with an umbrella under the rain and wind..

when i was just starting out, the wind used to throw me off balance. Now it doesnt make much difference except either drains my battery or extends it if blowing same direction. I gotta try the umbrella thing...might give me a few extra miles if i use it the right way in the wind...

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9 minutes ago, Cloud said:

when i was just starting out, the wind used to throw me off balance. Now it doesnt make much difference except either drains my battery or extends it if blowing same direction. I gotta try the umbrella thing...might give me a few extra miles if i use it the right way in the wind...

Well you are 100 kg .. :lol:

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