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Is market interest on EUCs decreasing?? And MicroWorks EUC parts


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So as everyone may know already, MicroWorks website and shop on Alibaba is closed. They say they will be back next month and also that EUC market changed, their motor supplier don't have stock but access new orders with a relative big minimum order quantity. Seems they also see this market change and just produce their famous control boards 30B4 when theirs clients order also with a relative big minimum order quantity. They may start selling another products about electric personal light electric vehicles.

Does anyone have this feedback of the market??

Some questions are:

- what about an alternative motor to their of 500W 30km/h that they not sell anymore?
Users like me always wanted to try a larger wheel like 18'' or even bigger and with more top speed, maybe like 40km/k. I think a EBike direct drive motor may work, for instance this one that have the same number of coils and magnets like one EUC motor I have: https://www.electricbike.com/9c/
This kind of motors can run at a very large voltage like from 24 up to 72V meaning we should get very high speeds like 50km/h. Also we will have the flexibility to have a wheel of different sizes, using different spokes sizes and rims. The only potential issue I see are the axles size...
-- Does the MicroWorks 30B4/30C/40C boards works with this motors??
I don't know. But that's why I am developing the OpenSource firmware for EUCs and this boards. I am also developing for EBike controllers and we should have very good resources to make our own EUCs using different motors and control boards.

- what about an alternative control board if they stop sell their boards?
Gotway, KingSong, etc would be good alternatives but they are very expensive and are just sell as spares for costumers, for repairs.
That's why is important to develop our own boards. @lizardmech is developing one. I am also participating on the development on one for EBikes that should be able to later drive a EUC.

- what about an alternative mechanical parts like pedals and arms if they stop sell them?
I don't know. Maybe we can find a way to someone produce them or find an DIY alternative.

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Bad news indeed concerning motors from Microworks.

Here are two possible alternatives:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16-inch-60V-500w-1200w-wheelbarrow-motor-brushless-DC-motor-electric-wheel-motor/32774353568.html?spm=2114.01010208.8.60.pP4Sn0
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/18-inch-48V-60V-wheelbarrow-motor-1200W-electric-bicycle-motor/32777367011.html

Meanwhile, I have talked to someone who bought the 1200W version of this 16" wheel and the MW controller didn´t work. The wheel only rotated in one direction. So he bought a Gotway controller (Version for Msuper V3) which works now perfectly. They can currently be bought for 150USD on ebay. The same guy is now planning a 18" wheel (second link above) with higher voltage. I´ll wait for his results on compatibility.

However the challenge with the gotway controller when using my own design is that unlike the MW board it will only work in vertical, so it raises new issues with battery placement.

I have also received some further info from Charles Lee who told me that the 30B board is out of stock:

"30C is a upgraded edition based on 30B4. 30C has horizontal programmings.  It can use our motor before directly.
For pedals, our supplier doesn't stop production. 
For switch, charging socket..etc  ,  they are available"

Apparently, there is also a 40A version of the controller, which has 12 mosfets, which is still available. Does anyone have any info on that version?

The best solution for my own 3D printed design would be to somehow get the microworks boards working with these other motors as they are only half the cost and can be programmed to work horizontally, leaving space for batteries in both side housings.
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The best solution as you say, seems a good path. But that means we need our technology to have the needed flexibility for this situations. I will take a pause on the firmware development because I will develop now for EBikes but should be a small pause like 2 months. I am also reading about the math for balance controller on this time, which is the main part now needed.on firmware to keep this going forward.

I wish there was others with knowledge to help me and take this fast...

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As you probably know, I have a new version of my 3D printed design, which is about ready to be published, but now there´s no point as the hardware parts that it was designed for are no longer available. It would be very quick to adapt it for a 16" wheel if the same controller could be used. However, if I have to use the gotway controller, I will only be able to accomodate 32 cells instead of 64 unless I re-design the whole shell, so it would only have 340Wh instead of 680, which is not really enough for such a powerful motor. I´ve been told that the 16" 1200W version performs very well with top speed of approximately 40km/h.

So I now need to consider whether to
a - design a new 16" version with gotway controller

b - wait for the results with the 18" wheel and then decide on a new design for that size

c - happily ride my current 14" and forget about new designs

 

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Is there any way to download the original firmware from the STM32 and try running it through a disassembler like IDA Pro?  I believe there may be an evaluation version of the software as it is pretty pricey.  That way it might give you some more insight on the code and then improve upon it rather than trying to literally reinvent the wheel from scratch.  If the Chinese can copy the Solowheel code and make it their own, it must be possible to reverse engineer the Chinese code.

As it appears that all these wheels use the same MCU, it should be then trivial to download Gotway code to tweak it as well.

Can you post up the original Microworks firmware file to your blog?  Maybe I can see if I can get a hold of a copy of IDA Pro and play around with it.  Don't hold your breath though as this sort of thing is quite outside of my league!

EDIT:  Free version:

https://www.hex-rays.com/products/ida/support/download_freeware.shtml

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@Hunka Hunka Burning Love not possible to read the protected code, was the very first try. Every board I have was read code protected. Even the Ebike controllers that just costs 14€ are code protected.

The only relative new thing here is the brushless motor control!! If you go and search, there are a lot of example of inverted pendulum balance since seams everyone does this at University. Look at YouTube and also at balance robots /Segway DIY done with Arduino!!! But all of them done with DC motors that are very easy to control, not brushless motors!!

But I just finished the motor code, now is just the balanced code, to have a first alpha testing version.

@Matt G I would go with C as I hope in 6 months to have some first code rideable and I hope them more people will join testing and project move faster. Bit if you have money go and try the 18'' motor, seems a very good bet for future because of his power, top speed and size!! We need more experience with that. If that guy did share some info, please send us the link or ask him to share public the information. Thank you.

 

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Is there any way to download the original firmware from the STM32 and try running it through a disassembler like IDA Pro?  I believe there may be an evaluation version of the software as it is pretty pricey.  That way it might give you some more insight on the code and then improve upon it rather than trying to literally reinvent the wheel from scratch.  If the Chinese can copy the Solowheel code and make it their own, it must be possible to reverse engineer the Chinese code.

As it appears that all these wheels use the same MCU, it should be then trivial to download Gotway code to tweak it as well.

Can you post up the original Microworks firmware file to your blog?  Maybe I can see if I can get a hold of a copy of IDA Pro and play around with it.  Don't hold your breath though as this sort of thing is quite outside of my league!

The code isn't really that difficult at all, all the difficulty is trying to get it to run on some decade old MCU that china makes clones of. I'm not even sure solowheel use the same MCU, I have looked everywhere for controller pictures of solowheel models but they're impossible to find. If I had anyone who can write c code and was willing to work with modern MCUs it wouldn't take long at all. The biggest problem is programmers want $50 per hour and 90% of the time is wasted trying to explain how an EUC works. It would cost around $10,000 - $20,000 to pay someone to make it.

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There must be a way to glitch the chip or hack the read protection.  Check out this site which seem to list the STM32F103 as readable.  The service is quite expensive though.

http://russiansemiresearch.com/en/service/

http://www.break-ic.com/microcontroller_read/ST_Microelectronics_open_lockbit_locked_mcu_read_out_eeprom.htm

Interesting reading:

https://community.particle.io/t/digital-signatures-for-security/20506/17

I was thinking if the code for the generic EUC wheels were available, that would make it easier for a programmer to port to a newer MCU or tweak it.  @lizardmech have you considered taking a C programming course and trying to do the code yourself?

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The single wheel electronic balancing unicycle market has been saturated in China. More and more company join in this market,KingSong,Airwheel,Gotway etc.MicroWorks have realeased a new super cheaper controller board(which widely used in electric skateboard).This board use this cheap chip(http://www.fortiortech.com/en/). I don not know why the electric skateboard become more popular than before.Actually,i think electric skateboard is not so convenient be unavailable.

https://detail.1688.com/offer/548572413453.html?spm=a261y.7663282.1998411376.6.J6Uw1O

https://detail.1688.com/offer/545493459488.html?spm=a261y.7663282.1998411376.3.fxFMCc

111.thumb.jpg.3e60c896b894006b9ed0bd00aadf9608.jpg

222.jpg.f8b06c94c779553952be2b7aa8c56a01.jpg

 

 

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I'm slowly teaching myself but it takes months and I work on the hardware 20 or 30 hours per week. There isn't actually much code that needs to be written everything needed exists it's just spread out over multiple projects and needs to be assembled together.

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Have you tried contacting Benjamin Vedder to see if he might be able to help you out?  Maybe if you shared a sample of your board with him, he could help write the code for it?

He's letting me try out VESC 6 beta firmware soon but he's pretty busy working to commercialize the project so he can earn enough to work on it more often. Depends how smoothly the beta goes.

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What are your plans for your hardware?  Are you looking at trying to sell it commercially or maybe sell the plans once it is proven to work?  If it's mainly for hobby purposes, I wonder if Microworks / Gotway / KingSong / etc would be interested in working with you to help develop the firmware?  It would likely be reverse engineered once it's released into the wild though if it is an improvement on what's out there.  You can probably bet the Chinese will be making copies of it sooner or later.

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I'm trying to make it as multipurpose as possible. The VESC has to be very small for skateboards, but bikes and EUC aren't so constrained by size. If I can get it working hopefully I can sell some hardware. Every time I post pictures of prototypes on the VESC forum or put videos on youtube I get people wanting to buy them, ebike people always want VESCs without the 50-60v limit others want something a heatsink can fit on so it can handle 100A+ continuous. If I can get mine to handle 120A continuous with small bursts up to 240A at 72V that gives you 8-16 KW.

Competition does not seem to be a huge issue, chinese companies sabotage themselves trying to cut costs with cheaper parts. Western companies are too busy selling controllers they made 8 years ago for between $1000 - $5000 USD depending on the voltage.

This company keeps selling controllers to solar car racing teams, 160V 100A for only $4500 USD and they still buy them.

http://tritium.com.au/products/wavesculptor22-motor-inverter/

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7 hours ago, electric_vehicle_lover said:

 

@Matt G I would go with C as I hope in 6 months to have some first code rideable and I hope them more people will join testing and project move faster. Bit if you have money go and try the 18'' motor, seems a very good bet for future because of his power, top speed and size!! We need more experience with that. If that guy did share some info, please send us the link or ask him to share public the information. Thank you.

 

 

I´d really love to design a bigger wheel, but from a purely financial point of view, there´s really not much benefit in building one with more expensive controllers than the one from Microworks. I could buy an MSuper V2 with 850Wh battery for 960 EUR including EU taxes or a 680Wh Kingsong KS18 for about 850 EUR from Aliexpress, shipping to Europe included. Building one from scratch will cost almost the same using the parts which are currently available.

I sent you some info via pm on how to get in touch with the guy who´s currently building the 18" wheel.

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11 hours ago, KingQueenWong said:

The single wheel electronic balancing unicycle market has been saturated in China. More and more company join in this market,KingSong,Airwheel,Gotway etc.MicroWorks have realeased a new super cheaper controller board(which widely used in electric skateboard).This board use this cheap chip(http://www.fortiortech.com/en/). I don not know why the electric skateboard become more popular than before.Actually,i think electric skateboard is not so convenient be unavailable.

Great information @KingQueenWong!! Thanks for sharing with us. I also think EUCs are much better for commuting but maybe skates are more cool for the youngs. Maybe EUCs will grow slow on next years... But there is a new one that I really believe and is based on Freeboard but electric... there are great videos on youtube about Freeboard but seems to work only down a road and electric makes it fun everywhere!!

 

11 hours ago, KingQueenWong said:

Thanks for the links. Or I will keep using MW boards or I will jump to some board custom made, as OpenSource hardware. I don't want to start all again, a new board from someone that may stop selling it after 1 year.

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