Gerard Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Greetings to all! Last year I got myself a small generic named e-Wheel with a 132Wh battery and I have used it all Summer with great satisfaction. My rides were in town and to my work, just within the limits of the 12km range. However, after the Winter, with the wheel stored in a cold barn, I noticed unacceptable battery degradation. The range has become smaller, and I got several shutdowns (I think from the descriptions here) in a row. So I am considering to buy a Ninebot One, which would probably be a very good ride. But this is expensive so alternatively I consider a battery upgrade for the generic. Aliexpress has 60V 6Ah packs for about 180€. I consider that with such a pack, the range of my wheel would be over 30km so I could make longer rides. Speed will remain the same, like 13kmh, not fast but I ride for fun not for speed. But what about the shutdown Risks? I figure that I've been riding a full season with a 132Wh battery, so this battery should work fine for the first year. But will I be shutdown-free for the next two to three years? Will the bigger pack be able to deliver sufficient peak powers for several years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Did you by any chance store it fully charged? The batteries don't like that and degrade much faster... as for the Aliexpress -battery, you can't have 6Ah (that would make it around 360Wh pack) in a single 16S1P -pack made of 18650-cells, so either it has to be 16S2P (32 cells), or it's a fraud. Not bad price though, if it's genuine, any idea on the cell manufacturer? Cheaper cells with higher internal resistance might have problems delivering enough current. Also check the dimensions, the bigger pack (16S2P) might be hard to fit into the battery compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Gerard said: Greetings to all! Last year I got myself a small generic named e-Wheel with a 132Wh battery and I have used it all Summer with great satisfaction. My rides were in town and to my work, just within the limits of the 12km range. However, after the Winter, with the wheel stored in a cold barn, I noticed unacceptable battery degradation. The range has become smaller, and I got several shutdowns (I think from the descriptions here) in a row. So I am considering to buy a Ninebot One, which would probably be a very good ride. But this is expensive so alternatively I consider a battery upgrade for the generic. Aliexpress has 60V 6Ah packs for about 180€. I consider that with such a pack, the range of my wheel would be over 30km so I could make longer rides. Speed will remain the same, like 13kmh, not fast but I ride for fun not for speed. But what about the shutdown Risks? I figure that I've been riding a full season with a 132Wh battery, so this battery should work fine for the first year. But will I be shutdown-free for the next two to three years? Will the bigger pack be able to deliver sufficient peak powers for several years? Yes but you need to understand how to store the batteries. If you store with full charge it will get ruined. If you need to store make sure the battery is below 50%. Possibly disconnect the batteries also if it is not to difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 When I rode my generic wheel, I was considering trying to get an extra pack and try to modify the wheel to easily swap out the pack, but I ended up getting a Ninebot One E+ on sale so I'm glad that I didn't. I really liked my generic wheel, but after a while 12 kph just gets a little slow so it's likely better to put the money towards a new wheel with better capabilities. If money is tight, sure why not just get an extra battery pack as long as you're still happy with the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 The battery offered by Ali is a 16S2P so it might really give 6Ah. Here is the link. Of course I'll do a space check on my wheel first! https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Lithium-60v-battery-li-ion-60v-6AH-60v-18650-cell-electric-unicycle-battery-60v-lithium-battery/32804706705.html?spm=2114.010208.3.17.voS5r8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10068_436_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10177_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_10037_10183_10182_10185_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123-10037_10077,searchweb201603_9,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=fb26f4b4-5e25-43d7-b7cc-f30f5084048b&algo_expid=c4068e0b-d099-41db-8617-14ab9be2ef36-2&algo_pvid=c4068e0b-d099-41db-8617-14ab9be2ef36 i understand from the replies that storage should be not full, and not cold, and then the battery would remain good for multiple seasons. The issue that remains for me is that of internal resistance. This battery parameter is never included in the battery specs, neither do I know what resistance I need for a safe ride. The battery above is offered as a unicycle battery, but what does such a thing mean without precise specs? I'd need the internal resistance in Ohms, or voltage drops at several current rates, specified for the new battery and after one, two or three years or normal use. Anyone ever seen such specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Gerard said: The battery offered by Ali is a 16S2P so it might really give 6Ah. Here is the link. Of course I'll do a space check on my wheel first! https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Lithium-60v-battery-li-ion-60v-6AH-60v-18650-cell-electric-unicycle-battery-60v-lithium-battery/32804706705.html?spm=2114.010208.3.17.voS5r8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10068_436_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10177_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_10037_10183_10182_10185_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123-10037_10077,searchweb201603_9,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=fb26f4b4-5e25-43d7-b7cc-f30f5084048b&algo_expid=c4068e0b-d099-41db-8617-14ab9be2ef36-2&algo_pvid=c4068e0b-d099-41db-8617-14ab9be2ef36 i understand from the replies that storage should be not full, and not cold, and then the battery would remain good for multiple seasons. 30-40% charge and "cool but not freezing"-temperature seems to be pretty ideal, although I've had packs in room temperature with low charge that seem to fare alright... 2 hours ago, Gerard said: The issue that remains for me is that of internal resistance. This battery parameter is never included in the battery specs, neither do I know what resistance I need for a safe ride. The battery above is offered as a unicycle battery, but what does such a thing mean without precise specs? I'd need the internal resistance in Ohms, or voltage drops at several current rates, specified for the new battery and after one, two or three years or normal use. Anyone ever seen such specs? The internal resistance and discharge curve(s) are usually mentioned/shown in the cell datasheets or in sites like http://www.dampfakkus.de/ Without knowing the actual cell make and model, it won't help much though. I don't know if there's any rule of thumb for what the internal resistance should be, basically lower is better (less voltage drop at high output, less power lost as heat...). Even with low (20-30 milliohm or thereabouts?) internal resistances, 16 cells in series makes about 0.3-0.5ohm in total, plus it varies from one cell to the next and with temperature. The pack in Aliexpress says 15A continuous current (more likely BMS limited than the cells?), which I'd think is enough for a 350W generic, but don't know for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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