Ninebot E+ starts to adjust petals upward

[Ch.Eng.62]

8 hours ago, Vik's said:

"Try turning the unit on and lifting it up letting the wheel spin until it starts beeping then turn it off. Repeat this 3 times." - comes from a Ninebot engineer technician.

No joke!  

Nope that procedure resets the BT settings only

Thanks. I was asking because I have the same problem. It is not something I cannot deal with, but I am afraid I will miss the warning when I am near to limits of the wheel 

[tjcooper]

sorry to have been away for so long.  Need to check my app on Android tomorrow, but my information screen shows how many charges I have had.  I will get exact procedure on Memorial Day (somehow significant?).    There is a "factory reset" button on one of the app menus.  I will try to find out where it is located also.   I have noticed that periodically my "speed limit" lock on app goes from unlocked to locked.   If I don't have my speed limit max set to > 6.2 mph then when that happens I get the "lean back" of the petals.   I can actually live with the "lean back" these days because if I immediately do my own "lean back and slow down", then the system resets and gives me something like another minute of "petal level" operation before the problem happens again.

I think I saw on one of the posts about power on, lift up unit, let the wheel spin until stop.  I know it is 3 cycles for the bluetooth.  But I think that something like one cycle and then double power cycle would also do the factory reset.  I will look around to see if I can find the notice.

   tjcooper

[Vik's]

50 minutes ago, tjcooper said:

sorry to have been away for so long.  Need to check my app on Android tomorrow, but my information screen shows how many charges I have had.  I will get exact procedure on Memorial Day (somehow significant?).    There is a "factory reset" button on one of the app menus.  I will try to find out where it is located also.  

Strange... I didn't find it either while connected to 9b1.... It's there when I connect the app to MiniPro, though. What app version you've got?

I know MiniPro have a data connection between battery's BMS and mainboard/controller, thus making it possible to show battery technical status like charging cycles etc. But pretty sure that Ninebot One lacks that feature.

[steve454]

13 hours ago, Vik's said:

Strange... I didn't find it either while connected to 9b1.... It's there when I connect the app to MiniPro, though. What app version you've got?

I know MiniPro have a data connection between battery's BMS and mainboard/controller, thus making it possible to show battery technical status like charging cycles etc. But pretty sure that Ninebot One lacks that feature.

My E+ only shows battery charge level, drive voltage, and total system current.  My app is the latest, 3.8.2,  I have updated the app 7 or more times and it never showed charge cycles, except there is an option in the app that will predict remaining range if you know the number of charge cycles, and rider weight.  I never used it.  It would be nice to have the battery data, though.

[tjcooper]

UPDATE: strange charging cycle on Ninebot after petals lifted up "totally".

I looked at my app this weekend to find the cycles.  I could not find it now....maybe an experimental version I got in the past.  Whatever.

New event.  E+ was in hot garage for 3 months without use but was fully charged last time used.  I got on it to remember how to ride it again.  Went for 4 minutes and then I heard a faint "click click click" I had never heard before.  Then the petals starting going up.  Normally I could "rock back" to an almost stop state and then I could rock forward and the petals up would go away for  a period of time.  But this time I went so back back that the E+ just dumped me off the back of the wheel.  Was prepared for it so no problem.  Picked up the wheel and started to ride again.  Got like 15 seconds of normal ride and then the "click click click" and then thrown again off the back.  Took back to garage, fired up the app, and started to charge.   The app said I had 67% remaining and I was at 50 volts (roughly).  WIthin 5 minutes the app said I had 100% charge and voltage went to 60.5 volts.  Returned to garage 10 minutes later and the app said I was at 50% charge and was at like 47 volts.  It took one hour to get back up to 100% at 61 volts.

Anyone else seen this popping around of the charge state on the app?   When charged I took it back out and no "click click click" sound and no push back of the petals after riding.  I no longer trust the app to tell me the percent charge.  I may have to go to Dr. Charge device so that I can really monitor the voltage and current going into the BMS.  Anybody know the functions on the 4 pins in the connector?  I have a charge state analyzer I made for my MoHoo that works very well.  If I knew the state of the 4 pins, I could monitor the voltage and power and know the real state of the BMS.

   Tjcooper

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Stored at full charge in a hot garage and not in a cool basement?    I wonder if you have frickazeed your Flamebot.  At least it is tilting back a warning and not cutting off while riding.  I wonder if you left it charging on the charger for a couple of hours whether that might help balance the cells?  If not it could be time for a replacement battery.

It's probably best to store these batteries at closer to 50% charge in a cool environment as heat kills batteries I hear.

[Chriull]

 

2 hours ago, tjcooper said:

New event.  E+ was in hot garage for 3 months without use but was fully charged last time used.  

 That's about one of the worst things to happen to liion cells. (Besides letting them fully discharge)

according to http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries liion cells stored for 3 month at 60 degree celcius just have 60% of their capacity left! Hopefully it was not as hot in the garage - at least not at night time...

2 hours ago, tjcooper said:

Anyone else seen this popping around of the charge state on the app?   When charged I took it back out and no "click click click" sound and no push back of the petals after riding.  I no longer trust the app to tell me the percent charge.  I may have to go to Dr. Charge device so that I can really monitor the voltage and current going into the BMS.  Anybody know the functions on the 4 pins in the connector?  I have a charge state analyzer I made for my MoHoo that works very well.  If I knew the state of the 4 pins, I could monitor the voltage and power and know the real state of the BMS.

   Tjcooper

The bms of the e+ has a reverse voltage protection diode at the charge side - so there is no (valid) voltage to be measured at the charge port.

But one can monitor the charging process with the chargedoctor or something similar.

maybe some optical inspection of the batteries would be a good idea after this treatment?

the strange behaviuor of the charge state displays (led, app) could be a sign of bad cells.

43 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 I wonder if you left it charging on the charger for a couple of hours whether that might help balance the cells?

Unfortionately there are quite some reports/discussions that the ninebot e+ Bms does not really balance the cells ;( but a try should not hurt - maybe it works...

43 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 If not it could be time for a replacement battery.

Should be the safest way - or opening the pack and taking a closer look at the cells before?

anyhow - this pack should be treated with special care - beside no supervised charging also charging only in some safe envirome could be recommendable.

 

[tjcooper]

UPDATE:  new effect when turn on unit:

I have been traveling extensively so I had the E+ in garage at like 75% charge state for 4 months.

Went to ride it today.  Used my new DrCharger on it to bring to charge. (I charged for a few minutes).   When I hopped on unit, it went forward and then began the tipping forward.  Got off unit and then got back on and it started tipping backwards.  Got off unit and held it level on the ground.  When I hit the power button, unit tips backwards and low intensity beep beep beep and slowly rocks the unit forward like 10 degrees, then goes backwards about 10 degrees from horizontal.  The beeping never stops but is very faint in intensity.  I did this forward to backwards slow tilt for 5 minutes.  Never stops and never changes.  I lifted wheel off the ground, wheel spins and then shuts down like normal.  forward to backward motion takes like 10 seconds to happen.  You can "fight" the forward tilt and the unit will start to move you forward just like you would do if you are on the petals and starting to lean forward.

Did many power on then off cycles, no change.   Has anyone else seen this?    I have to believe this is part of a calibration test pattern in E+ because it is slow and deliberate.   I will do reset and calibration this evening to see if that changes anything.  When this started happening I tried to bring up the app on cell phone.  It would find my unit and show serial number, but would only show "connecting".  Never got to my information screen.  Strange.

So I gave up and rode the MoHoo for an hour.   My mind could not stop cycling back to the realization that the MoHoo was working when I could not get the Ninebot  to run.

    tjcooper

[tjcooper]

New Tests on forward/backward lean:

I did the factory reset operation:

  -unit on ground powered off

  -turn on power hold in air until stops beeping and wheel stops turning

  -return to ground and repeat procedure 3 times

No change in operation noted.  Unit still slowly tips forward/backward after power on on ground

 

Tried angle re-calibration:

  -put foot pegs on two cups so wheel level and above the ground

  -power on and leave power on, hold strongly level

  - unit is supposed to spin with red lights showing for like 4 seconds,  then wheel stops, unit lights turn to a rotating white pattern and sound goes "di di di di" to say successful.

My unit did the first 2 steps but I never got any white lights or "di" sound to come out.

I still cannot get unit to get the app to show basic data screen.  I only get unit and serial number to show and then perpetual "connecting" shows.

Any ideas of other tests I can run?     With new DrCharger I am at 62.7volts and no amps.

    tjcooper

 

[Vik's]

I do remember you've mentioned some very high voltage numbers previously.

What you describe here reminds me of Kingsong "overcharged/battery error"-behaviour... Could be your battery pack showing its age and maybe even some signs of heavy wear on (some of) cells because of overcharging and longtime storage earlier?

[tjcooper]

Vik's,

I did have high voltage previously.....but it was on the charger and not necessarily making its way to the battery.  I measured 67.2volts DC coming out of my charger for the MoHoo which I was using to charge the Ninebot because it had an LCD display to show me volts, amps, watt-hour, etc.   But when I openned the Ninebot, the max I was getting to the BMS batteries was around 62.4 volts.  That is what my DrCharger now shows.  So my charger/display unit was slightly "lying" to me about what I was actually getting to the BMS.   Probably in the LCD box it was applying some dropping resistance to keep me at 15 cells rather than the 16 cells of the MoHoo.

My pack is 1 year old.  I have less than 8 hours riding on that pack (using the MoHoo most of the time).   Something like 35 kilometers distance.  SO I doubt my battery is old-age variety.

I see different descriptions for factory reset:

-type A says hold Ninebot in air and push power button and let it do 3 cycles of power up, beep, spin wheel, then stop (all by itself).   I have tried that method and nothing changes in my tilt forward/backward problem.

-typeB says power on Ninebot on ground then lift in air and let it do beep, spin wheel, then stop.   After this you set the Ninebot back on the ground.  You repeat this lifting and pushing button on ground for 3 cycles.  I have done this and no change in my problem.

Is there any "signature" that tells us that the Ninebot has successfully done a "factory reset"?   Do you think it would be valuable to post a YouTube video of the unit doing the forward/backward tilt with beep to show people what I am experiencing?

    tjcooper

[Vik's]

Hmm... Yeah, sounds like we can rule out the battery here..

 

Take a look at this factory reset method:

And here is the video version made by @SuperSport:

 

And do upload a video of your 9b1 - that would help us to better see the problem-

[Chriull]

On 26.7.2017 at 6:37 AM, tjcooper said:

... E+ was in hot garage for 3 months without use but was fully charged last time used...

Quite extreme stress for the batteries.

On 30.10.2017 at 6:55 PM, tjcooper said:

I did have high voltage previously...

I measured 67.2volts DC coming out of my charger for the MoHoo which I was using to charge the Ninebot

Charging the cells until the bms cuts off the input because some cells reached the maximum voltage to protect them from overloading - again stressing the cells and no balancing of the pack, because the bms cut off... (besides some reports that the ninebot one e+ bms does not really balance well every additional „stressing“ debalances the pack even more)

Quote

My pack is 1 year old.  I have less than 8 hours riding on that pack (using the MoHoo most of the time).   Something like 35 kilometers distance.  SO I doubt my battery is old-age variety.

Using the pack is just one way to age the cells - badly storing/charging can age the cells much worse. So riding hours can be just one minor influence for aging.

On 30.10.2017 at 8:58 PM, Vik's said:

Hmm... Yeah, sounds like we can rule out the battery here

...

Nope.

Could still be that this „bad“ treatment did not inflict the batteries too much and i’d hope you find some other remedy. But imho replacing the battery pack has the best chances to cure this problems...

[Vik's]

7 hours ago, Chriull said:

... But imho replacing the battery pack has the best chances to cure this problems...

Measuring the existing pack first with some load on it over a period of time is what I would suggest then.

[US69]

On 30.10.2017 at 4:25 AM, tjcooper said:

and low intensity beep beep beep and slowly rocks the unit forward like 10 degrees, then goes backwards about 10 degrees from horizontal.  The beeping never stops but is very faint in intensity.  I did this forward to backwards slow tilt for 5 minutes.  Never stops and never changes.  I lifted wheel off the ground, wheel spins and then shuts down like normal.  forward to backward motion takes like 10 seconds to happen.  You can "fight" the forward tilt and the unit will start to move you forward just lik

Afaik this rocking back and forth on standstill is a sign for cell overvoltage and the wheel now trying to work this overvoltage down?

Maybe i am wrong, but i guess i have read about this behaviour as overvoltage protection.

 

[Keith]

On 15/05/2017 at 8:59 PM, tjcooper said:

Anyway, my pack claimed to be full 65 volts via the app

So this wasn’t just the voltage at the charger was it? That is 4.33V per cell, that is low enough not to cause the cells to catch fire (just) but it is enough, especially if left charged like that in a hot room for more than a day or two, to SERIOUSLY degrade the cells. The odds that the fault is with battery pack are (IMHO) virtually 100%.

You have, over the course of this thread done just about everything you can to ruin the battery. 

As I said in the below thread: Never muck about with Chargers on Lithium Ion batteries unless you absolutely know what you are doing, you risk a very bad fire.

 

[tjcooper]

very strongly diverse ideas of what is causing the problem here.   This weekend I will take a video of the forward/backward tilt and put it on YouTube and give a reference here.   Because several people think I have "toasted" the battery, I will pull it out of system, manually measure each cell under an external load (I have a great car battery tester) which gives a strong adjustable load.  I will drive the battery down to about 3.50 volts (roughly 50% discharge).   I will then use the real Ninebot charger with the DrCharger device to bring it up to full charge.  Again I will manually measure each cell to see if any "weak sisters".    My money is on the probability that battery will show normal operation and show no distressed cells.   But I could be wrong.

    tjcooper

[tjcooper]

Here is the YouTube video of the problem.   Please forgive all the padding....too many "learners" on this machine....but they learn quickly.

https://youtu.be/yBJcTXiGLXI

There is a subtle "di....di....di" going on constantly in the background.   This happens every time I power on.  I have found no way to stop this action.

The APP starts up and shows the units serial number, but says "Connecting" and does nothing else.   If anyone has a RESET, please tell me about it.  I have done the several methods of "life the unit up and power on" to reset.   No change in operations.

   tjcooper

[Vik's]

@tjcooper Getting "This video is unavailable"...

[steve454]

9 hours ago, Vik's said:

@tjcooper Getting "This video is unavailable"...

Me too.

[tjcooper]

please try again.   I saw "Public" when I first created it but today when I tried I saw "Private" .   So I did an EDIT and made sure the result was "Public" but I cannot get

a listing anymore of whether it is public or private.  How do I get YouTube to tell me the status of a video?  and how to change that status?

   tjcooper

[steve454]

12 minutes ago, tjcooper said:

please try again.   I saw "Public" when I first created it but today when I tried I saw "Private" .   So I did an EDIT and made sure the result was "Public" but I cannot get

a listing anymore of whether it is public or private.  How do I get YouTube to tell me the status of a video?  and how to change that status?

   tjcooper

Ok the video is working now, that is very weird behavior.  Have you tried the manual calibration linked in @Vik's  signature at the bottom of his post?  You were halfway through it at the end of your video.  If I remember correctly, you pick it up with the power off,  hold it firmly between your legs taking care not to let your pants or anything get caught in the tire, turn it on and let it spin till it starts beeping, long press the power button until the beeps stop, then set it down and turn it off.  Watch the video, I might have got one of the steps wrong from memory.

Oh, and hold it level while calibrating.

[litewave]

1 hour ago, steve454 said:

Ok the video is working now, that is very weird behavior.  Have you tried the manual calibration linked in @Vik's  signature at the bottom of his post?  You were halfway through it at the end of your video.  If I remember correctly, you pick it up with the power off,  hold it firmly between your legs taking care not to let your pants or anything get caught in the tire, turn it on and let it spin till it starts beeping, long press the power button until the beeps stop, then set it down and turn it off.  Watch the video, I might have got one of the steps wrong from memory.

Oh, and hold it level while calibrating.

With all due respect to @SuperSport, holding the NInebot between the legs during calibration only makes sense in extreme circumstances, like after a spectacular tumble in the middle of nowhere. Otherwise, placing the Ninebot support arms on two equal-sized sturdy supports, just tall enough to lift the wheel 2cm or higher off the ground, on a level surface, makes more sense to me. The video below uses plastic cups, but I typically use 2x4 (wall stud timber) scraps (about 6" in length) turned on their sides. Also, the ground the supports rest on should be level, which is not always the case.

 

[steve454]

15 minutes ago, litewave said:

The video below uses plastic cups, but I typically use 2x4 (wall stud timber) scraps (about 6" in length) turned on their sides.

Those 2x4 scraps are what I am going to use,  I can probably get them for free or very little at Home Depot.  Thanks for the idea!

[Vik's]

I've got custom acrylic stand that holds the 9b1 perfectly level and tire is touching the bottom of it. So I could calibrate the unit easily if needed (but it's just perfect right out of the box)