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Ninebot E+ starts to adjust petals upward


tjcooper
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Have a Ninebot E+ which recently gives the "subtle" impression that as  you are riding on level ground that it is "mini movements" of the petals going up, as if it were trying to tell you that the battery pack is low.  But this happens with a brand new pack fully charged.   My son pointed it out a few weeks ago and I also tried the unit and got the same feeling.  Then I have ridden it each week end for the last 4 weeks.  After about 1 minute of riding I get the subtle feeling that it is lifting up the petals to get me to stop.

This weekend I was trying it out again.  This time when I get the subtle feeling that the petals are lifting up and lean back as though I want unit to stop.  It slows down and then I lean forward and start running forward again.  Now the "subtle feeling" is gone and the petals are level.  Then about two minutes later the same "subtle petals up" feeling returns.  Again, if I repeat the lean back motion and go forward, the system goes "level" again and riding is normal.   This process will repeat again after a few minutes.

Has anyone else seen this problem?  I can absolutely guarantee that the battery pack is full and rather new.   I have had this happen several times on my cheapy MoHoo, but in that case the system is really complaining that the battery is low and is forcing be to get off the unicycle.   Is there such a thing as a "re-calibration of level" on the Ninebot?   Anyone know how to do it?  Much thanks.

    tjcooper

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I have sometimes noticed this on my 9Bot 1 E+, usually within the first 5 minutes or so of the ride. I have always attributed it to the battery needing some time to warm up a little to allow full discharge rate of the amps. The main board reacts by some tilt back because it's not getting the amps it need. 

This is pure speculation on my part. The reason I think it is a possibility is because it seems to happen more on colder mornings.

I just throw this out there as a possibility for discussion. Anyone have any ideas? Does this sound like a sound theory?

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I wonder if they are riding it downhill on a full charge.  Does the pedal tiltback still occur at different battery levels?  The only time mine tilts back is when I'm nearing 22 kph or accelerating too quickly I find.  Maybe a factory reset or a calibration might help?  What firmware are you on?

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This happens on LEVEL ground with a full battery.  This weekend it was 75 deg F and just a very mild wind.   No downhill riding at all.  Speed was like 3-5 km/hour so very mild riding.

I just found the "calibrate" menu on the app in the evening and so I did a calibration.  I noticed that during the 10-12 seconds of calibration that the wheel moved forward (like I was asking for ride acceleration) by 1-2 degrees before end of calibration set.  I will test it out next weekend.

And I must tell readers that this is very subtle motion....like 1/2 a degree but once you ride enough, that is a significant mental picture that it gives you that something has changed.   On my MoHoo when it starts moving the petals backward at end of battery pack, that change is like 8 degrees.  You literally cannot stand on the petals anymore.  You will get thrown off backwards.  But it is a slow and very controlled motion so you have time to realize what is happening and just slow down all the way and get off.

    tjcooper

Edited by tjcooper
talk about speed when it happened
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18 hours ago, tjcooper said:

Have a Ninebot E+ which recently gives the "subtle" impression that as  you are riding on level ground that it is "mini movements" of the petals going up, as if it were trying to tell you that the battery pack is low.  But this happens with a brand new pack fully charged.   My son pointed it out a few weeks ago and I also tried the unit and got the same feeling.  Then I have ridden it each week end for the last 4 weeks.  After about 1 minute of riding I get the subtle feeling that it is lifting up the petals to get me to stop.

This weekend I was trying it out again.  This time when I get the subtle feeling that the petals are lifting up and lean back as though I want unit to stop.  It slows down and then I lean forward and start running forward again.  Now the "subtle feeling" is gone and the petals are level.  Then about two minutes later the same "subtle petals up" feeling returns.  Again, if I repeat the lean back motion and go forward, the system goes "level" again and riding is normal.   This process will repeat again after a few minutes.

Has anyone else seen this problem?  I can absolutely guarantee that the battery pack is full and rather new.   I have had this happen several times on my cheapy MoHoo, but in that case the system is really complaining that the battery is low and is forcing be to get off the unicycle.   Is there such a thing as a "re-calibration of level" on the Ninebot?   Anyone know how to do it?  Much thanks.

    tjcooper

Sounds like either:

1. You have exceeded max speed

2. You have a tilt back set for lower than max speed. 

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I was worried about the max speed thing.  SO before last ride I upped the max speed limit to link 10 km/hr.  I never go fast so the 5 km/hr has always worked before.  Anyway, it happened after 2 minutes of going like 2 mph.  I can lean back to slow down even more and it will reset and I can ride for another 2 minutes level.  Then back to the same thing.

I did an experiment to see how far it would lean mean if I did nothing.  Really hard to keep balance.  I went so far back I had hit my heals on the asphalt and had to jump off.   So it is very serious about leaning you backwards if you do nothing.  Again, all this was done with a fully  charged pack.  I will contact Segway on Monday since I am still in the warantee period.   Anyone know the direct like to customer service for Ninebot unicycles?

   tjcooper

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2 hours ago, tjcooper said:

I was worried about the max speed thing.  SO before last ride I upped the max speed limit to link 10 km/hr.  I never go fast so the 5 km/hr has always worked before.  Anyway, it happened after 2 minutes of going like 2 mph.  I can lean back to slow down even more and it will reset and I can ride for another 2 minutes level.  Then back to the same thing.

I did an experiment to see how far it would lean mean if I did nothing.  Really hard to keep balance.  I went so far back I had hit my heals on the asphalt and had to jump off.   So it is very serious about leaning you backwards if you do nothing.  Again, all this was done with a fully  charged pack.  I will contact Segway on Monday since I am still in the warantee period.   Anyone know the direct like to customer service for Ninebot unicycles?

   tjcooper

I believe there is one in the manual. 

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When you say "brand new pack" did you get a new Ninebot battery pack, or are you using a replacement 67.2 volt battery pack?  What voltage is it reading at with a multi-meter?  I wonder if your battery is a 67.2 volt pack whereas the Ninebot one is a 55.5 volt pack?  Could it be that your board is detecting an over-voltage sitution thinking the battery is overcharged so it is tilting you back?

I do recall Jason getting a 67.2 v pack to work,  but I'm not sure how he was able to do that.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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on the Segway web site I did not find a customer service number for Ninebot.  I will look in the manual.

This Ninebot pack is the original E+ pack.  I show only 8 charges on the system.  The voltage is 67.2 which is the result of MAX VOLTAGE of 4.2 volts for each of the 16 cells.  If you take the NOMINAL voltage in the middle of the packs voltage range (3,.7 volts) that is where you get the 55.5 volts DC,

Anyway, my pack claimed to be full 65 volts via the app, and I measured the charge voltage on the plug at 67 volts DC.  It only takes about 1-2 minutes at 4 mph to get the "lean back" to occur.   This is something new.  It did not happen for any of the previous rides that my  son and I had done.   It really makes me think that something has gone out of calibration..   I did the manual calibration from the app last week, but that did not change the problem.

   tjcooper

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17 minutes ago, tjcooper said:

on the Segway web site I did not find a customer service number for Ninebot.  I will look in the manual.

This Ninebot pack is the original E+ pack.  I show only 8 charges on the system.  The voltage is 67.2 which is the result of MAX VOLTAGE of 4.2 volts for each of the 16 cells.  If you take the NOMINAL voltage in the middle of the packs voltage range (3,.7 volts) that is where you get the 55.5 volts DC,

Anyway, my pack claimed to be full 65 volts via the app, and I measured the charge voltage on the plug at 67 volts DC.  It only takes about 1-2 minutes at 4 mph to get the "lean back" to occur.   This is something new.  It did not happen for any of the previous rides that my  son and I had done.   It really makes me think that something has gone out of calibration..   I did the manual calibration from the app last week, but that did not change the problem.

   tjcooper

AFAIK, Ninebots use 15S2P packs, 55.5V nominal (15 * 3.7V), 63V max (15 * 4.2V). 65V would be overcharged (around 4.3333..V per cell)... Maybe the wheel is warning of overvoltage? Is it the original charger or some after-market fast-charger? The output voltage is too high!

SKU276011_1.jpg

3.7V * 15 = 55.5V. For 16S, it would be 59.2V, usually rounded to 60V by the manufacturers (and for typical Wh-calculations of the 16S -packs).

Edited by esaj
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I just finished charging my wheel using my original Ninebot charger, and the Ninebot app shows a drive voltage of 61.81 V.  I've got the flamebot Ninebot with the original battery from Forward California.  Maybe your charger is faulty and is giving out a higher voltage than it should resulting in an overcharged pack or you're using an incompatible charger?

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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PROBLEM SOLVED:  errors in many different places.

My Ninebot app had the max speed enabled even though on my cell phone it said it was not enabled.  I reset the phone and I reset the Ninebot to factory settings.   At that point I reloaded the app.   I had the pitstop error of having units in metric while in my mind I thought I was in mph......so all my speeds were wrong.  With all the resets, the "lean back" does not happen (at least for the two rides this weekend).

 

My Ninebot app still shows 65 volts DC as my fully charged battery.   I could have sworn that the vendor told me it was 16S2 battery configuration.  But ESAJ's picture of the pack clearly shows it as 15SP2.  Does everyone else in the world use 16S and only Ninebot uses 15S?

QUESTION: with the reset app, I see I have a max speed setting of only 7 mph(yes, english units).  I was hoping for something closer to 10 mph for when my son messes with the system.  Is there a way to set it higher?

    tjcooper

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3 hours ago, tjcooper said:

QUESTION: with the reset app, I see I have a max speed setting of only 7 mph(yes, english units).  I was hoping for something closer to 10 mph for when my son messes with the system.  Is there a way to set it higher?

No, I have wanted the same thing, but the speed limiter settings top out at 10kph (6.2mph) in the app on my android phone.  I even sent in a request using the app feedback in the app.  AFAIK, the only thing you can do is turn off the speed limiter and get full speed allowed, about 15 mph.  Then, what I do is sometimes ride with the phone in my hand, app on, and glance at the speedometer occasionally to get a feel for the different speeds.  Just tell your son to go no faster than 10 mph while riding with the phone, eventually he will know what 10 mph feels like and no longer need the speedometer.

 

On 5/15/2017 at 2:59 PM, tjcooper said:

This Ninebot pack is the original E+ pack.  I show only 8 charges on the system.  The voltage is 67.2

 

You show 8 charges, are you using an Apple phone?, my android phone does not show how many charges I have done, unless I missed something.  Other people have mentioned knowing how many charge cycles they have done, @Marty Backe knows how many charges on one of his Gotways, but i think he uses IOS app.

The most voltage my app ever shows is 61. something, always it is less than 62 volts.  As others have mentioned, it sounds like the charger might be defective, if you have a Segway store nearby they can check it for you.

On my app, at the lower left corner of the screen is the speed limiter touch button, It's possible to turn it on by accident.  Try tapping it and see what it says.

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On 5/23/2017 at 11:31 PM, tjcooper said:

My Ninebot app still shows 65 volts DC as my fully charged battery.   I could have sworn that the vendor told me it was 16S2 battery configuration.  But ESAJ's picture of the pack clearly shows it as 15SP2.  Does everyone else in the world use 16S and only Ninebot uses 15S?

I haven't followed on Ninebot that much, so I don't know if they've upgraded to 16S at some point. @Jason McNeil tested a (DIY) 16S configuration in Ninebot a longer time ago (might have been even back in 2015?), and I think it worked? So it could be ok, in case the pack is really 16S2P. Most other wheels have 16S or 20S packs, right off the top of my head I don't remember any other wheels using 15S than Ninebot. I think F-Wheel had some LiPo-packs (pouch cells) -configuration in the Dolphins, if not other models, don't remember the voltage... Solowheel Xtreme's might use some other configuration too. 

Edited by esaj
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13 hours ago, esaj said:

don't remember any other wheels using 15S than Ninebot.

It's great for those comparison specs, "sorry Ninebot you only have 30 cells while most other Wheels in the same class have 32..."

Edited by Jason McNeil
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On 23/05/2017 at 11:31 PM, tjcooper said:

PROBLEM SOLVED:  errors in many different places.

My Ninebot app had the max speed enabled even though on my cell phone it said it was not enabled.  I reset the phone and I reset the Ninebot to factory settings.   At that point I reloaded the app.   I had the pitstop error of having units in metric while in my mind I thought I was in mph......so all my speeds were wrong.  With all the resets, the "lean back" does not happen (at least for the two rides this weekend).

 

My Ninebot app still shows 65 volts DC as my fully charged battery.   I could have sworn that the vendor told me it was 16S2 battery configuration.  But ESAJ's picture of the pack clearly shows it as 15SP2.  Does everyone else in the world use 16S and only Ninebot uses 15S?

QUESTION: with the reset app, I see I have a max speed setting of only 7 mph(yes, english units).  I was hoping for something closer to 10 mph for when my son messes with the system.  Is there a way to set it higher?

    tjcooper

Hi, how did you reset the wheel to factory settings. I couldn't find how to do this in de app

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8 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

 

22 hours ago, esaj said:

don't remember any other wheels using 15S than Ninebot.

It's great for those comparison specs, "sorry Ninebot you only have 30 cells while most other Wheels in the same class have 32..."

Edited 8 hours ago by Jason McNeil

 

That always bothered me a little, but it's a small difference in cells and the Ninebot has good power, so I like to believe that the quality of the batteries and the wheel make up for the slightly smaller battery pack.  Still, Ninebot have limited themselves to no more than 320 wh where some other wheels use double and triple the batteries, and some have even more than that. With the P model discontinued, it seems that they are focused mostly on the S1 and the Minipro, good quality, fairly low priced, and are concentrating on the middle of the market.  I'd say Ninebot is the best of the midrange products.  That is where the most customers are likely to be, whereas Kingsong and Gotway are aiming at the experienced riders who are ready for more performance.  However, from the reviews of the Inmotion wheels, they seem to be better than Ninebot.  They have more models, bigger battery packs, and more features.  Inmotion seems to have a good chance to take away the market that Ninebot seems to want.  And with the merger of Inmotion and Solowheel, it's just like the merger of Ninebot and Segway, the only difference is that Segway already had a lot of stores around the world, but they were always very low volume so it will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or two.

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8 hours ago, Ch.Eng.62 said:

Hi, how did you reset the wheel to factory settings. I couldn't find how to do this in de app

That's a good question, the only thing I have read is to turn on the wheel, lift it from the ground and let it spin till it beeps.  Turn it off, set it down on the ground, and do this a total of three times.  But I think someone was joking with me @Vik's  might know.:ph34r:

Edited by steve454
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52 minutes ago, steve454 said:

That's a good question, the only thing I have read is to turn on the wheel, lift it from the ground and let it spin till it beeps.  Turn it off, set it down on the ground, and do this a total of three times.  But I think someone was joking with me @Vik's  might know.:ph34r:

At some point, there was a Speedy Feet -video where he showed how to reset the Bluetooth PIN-code, it had to do with something like starting on it's side, then counting the beeps and maybe shutting down or lifting it up after certain number of beeps... Don't know if it also resets the settings in general.

Edited by esaj
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17 hours ago, Ch.Eng.62 said:

Hi, how did you reset the wheel to factory settings. I couldn't find how to do this in de app

"Try turning the unit on and lifting it up letting the wheel spin until it starts beeping then turn it off. Repeat this 3 times." - comes from a Ninebot engineer technician.

8 hours ago, steve454 said:

That's a good question, the only thing I have read is to turn on the wheel, lift it from the ground and let it spin till it beeps.  Turn it off, set it down on the ground, and do this a total of three times.  But I think someone was joking with me @Vik's  might know.:ph34r:

No joke! :) 

8 hours ago, esaj said:

At some point, there was a Speedy Feet -video where he showed how to reset the Bluetooth PIN-code, it had to do with something like starting on it's side, then counting the beeps and maybe shutting down or lifting it up after certain number of beeps... Don't know if it also resets the settings in general.

Nope that procedure resets the BT settings only

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On 5/23/2017 at 2:31 PM, tjcooper said:

PROBLEM SOLVED:  errors in many different places.

My Ninebot app had the max speed enabled even though on my cell phone it said it was not enabled.  I reset the phone and I reset the Ninebot to factory settings.   At that point I reloaded the app.   I had the pitstop error of having units in metric while in my mind I thought I was in mph......so all my speeds were wrong.  With all the resets, the "lean back" does not happen (at least for the two rides this weekend).

 

My Ninebot app still shows 65 volts DC as my fully charged battery.   I could have sworn that the vendor told me it was 16S2 battery configuration.  But ESAJ's picture of the pack clearly shows it as 15SP2.  Does everyone else in the world use 16S and only Ninebot uses 15S?

QUESTION: with the reset app, I see I have a max speed setting of only 7 mph(yes, english units).  I was hoping for something closer to 10 mph for when my son messes with the system.  Is there a way to set it higher?

    tjcooper

There should be an icon on the bottom left of the ninebot app main screen where you can toggle off the speed limiter (you also have to reach 20 miles on the wheel before it will allow max speed). That will take you to 12.5 mph. Glad you figured out your problem! Ninebot rocks!

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