Rehab1 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: @Rehab1 Ok, could be done better, also. But: When they were in the correct Position, isn't it that because of the g-Force when rolling they were never able to go to the inside/axle of the wheel??? I'm sure G -forces would play a roll in helping to maintain the sleeves on the wires but some riders jump over curbs and such where circumference g-forces may not come into play. Who knows. Fixing it will be an easy 10 second task . Just add a little heat over the shrink wrap. My understanding is that Gotway does not produce their own motors so this QC issue would fall on another manufacture's shoulders. Update test: Before I heated the shrink wrap I decided to bounce the wheel up and down in all directlons pretty vilolently and the sleeves stayed in place! Awesome as this should not be an issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 If I remember correctly, the Coils and Sensor wires don't do the spinning. They are stationary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 hours ago, SuperSport said: If I remember correctly, the Coils and Sensor wires don't do the spinning. They are stationary. Yes that is correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Cooling fan test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'm fuc..ed!! As I was gently sliding the shrink wrap back over the hall sensor wires and 4 of the wires just snapped off. Any ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
affe Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'd say you need new hall sensors. Those wires are really brittle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, affe said: I'd say you need new hall sensors. Those wires are really brittle.. Thanks! Too brittle. Where does one purchase hall sensors? Are they universal? How do you extract the old sensors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
affe Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I have zero experience with these rotors but seems that the hall sensors have been glued to some kind of hole or notch. With luck you might be able to dig one out intact and there's usually a marking on the hall sensor package dictating its type. Finding the part number based on the marking might require some detective skills, though.. Maybe worth asking Gotway first, if they know the sensor type or if they could find it out from motor manufacturer? EDIT: Google "how to replace the hall sensors in a direct drive hub motor" and you should get a PDF with replacement instructions as the first hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/HubMotorHallSensorReplacement.pdf @esaj helped another member with replacing his IIRC.... I'll try to find the thread... Edit: EDIT2: You wouldn't think the legs should break off so easily since with vibration over time and any wire movement, that could eventually snap them off unexpectedly too. Maybe if you replace them, I'd recommend curving the legs a few millimeters away from the plastic and connecting the wires. Maybe adding some clear epoxy as strain relief at the base of the legs might be an idea? Alternatively, I have been able to carefully carve away some plastic from the body of an IC chip to gain access to the lead after a leg was broken off. It is very difficult to solder to the metal so I wouldn't recommend this route. Also you could damage the sensor if too much plastic is removed? Reliability would also be an issue. Looking at the PDF it doesn't look too difficult to replace these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: You wouldn't think the legs should break off so easily since with vibration over time and any wire movement, that could eventually snap them off unexpectedly too. I have to admit, I was slightly concerned when I watched this video that they were being treated sort of roughly. Those leads don't like being flexed much as they are fragile and pretty stiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: @esaj helped another member with replacing his IIRC.... I'll try to find the thread... Thanks @Hunka Hunka Burning Love! Help @esaj! Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: EDIT2: You wouldn't think the legs should break off so easily since with vibration over time and any wire movement, that could eventually snap them off unexpectedly too. Maybe if you replace them, I'd recommend curving the legs a few millimeters away from the plastic and connecting the wires. Maybe adding some clear epoxy as strain relief at the base of the legs might be an idea? God the wires are brittle! A bit scary! When they broke off it reminded me of handling a super thin strand of glass. They just snapped! Adding apoxy is an idea! First I need to find some sensors or a new motor. I contacted Ian to ask his advice being I may have to purchase from him. I am thankful I bought NB replacement spares from Ian in the past or he might just trash my email being I did not purchase the ACM from him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, SuperSport said: I have to admit, I was slightly concerned when I watched this video that they were being treated sort of roughly. Those leads don't like being flexed much as they are fragile and pretty stiff. Next time yell at me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Take an ohm measurement between the remaining spots where the legs used to be. Does it read 7 ohms between all of them? I think they mentioned some part numbers in those thread I posted. The one fellow bought a few from AliExpress, but I wonder if DigiKey might stock them as well. I don't think those little sensors were ever meant to have wires soldered directly to them! They are the bend bend break variety of metal I'm betting! I think it has to do with bad motor design more than human error in this case. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SS41/480-1999-ND/701354 https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=TLE4935L Too bad if the Hall Effect Sensors are that frail that there isn't like some strain relief there. I've seen other motors with a curved PCB board where the sensors are soldered to, and the wires are then soldered to the board. That would eliminate wire stresses transferred to the sensors, but I guess it would make their replacement more difficult unless the board was screwed on and the sensors not glued? I suppose they would need to be glued to reduce vibration. I'm not sure how other motors are set up, but I've seen the extra PCB board present where the sensors are. It does say something about variations in motor design and how some Chinese suppliers save a few pennies by not using a Hall Sensor PCB mini board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Rehab1 said: Next time yell at me!!! Sorry, that was NOT a knock on you. If you have not dealt with those before, you would not know. I figured it had already been done by the time I saw the video. It is a bummer to have to do this extra step, but maybe you will end up finding a better replacement anyways, and you will have that much stronger of a wheel. LOVE what you are doing. I've been meaning to get into my motor too and fix anything I find along the way, including thicker Direct Run Motor Wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Take an ohm measurement between the remaining spots where the legs used to be. Does it read 7 ohms between all of them? I think they mentioned some part numbers in those thread I posted. The one fellow bought a few from AliExpress, but I wonder if DigiKey might stock them as well. 5.63 reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hmm in the other thread I think they read 7 ohms, but it's probably not that important as yours are working sensors. If these are just magnetic switches that detect the magnets as they pass by it should just transmit those signals to the control board I'm thinking. The timing at which the magnet goes by one to the next probably is used to calculate the speed the motor is turning at and the direction between the three of them? @electric_vehicle_lover would be able to tell you a bit more about how it all works. BTW I edited my previous posting with some more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I've seen other motors with a curved PCB board where the sensors are soldered to, and the wires are then soldered to the board. That's how my Sondors bike Hub Motor is done. This is NOT a photo of mine by the way. That solder job is a bit rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, SuperSport said: Sorry, that was NOT a knock on you. If you have not dealt with those before, you would not know. I figured it had already been done by the time I saw the video. It is a bummer to have to do this extra step, but maybe you will end up finding a better replacement anyways, and you will have that much stronger of a wheel. LOVE what you are doing. I've been meaning to get into my motor too and fix anything I find along the way, including thicker Direct Run Motor Wires. I have the upmost respect for you and never considered your comment a knock! I am in uncharted waters at this point so any advice is great appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 minute ago, SuperSport said: That's how my Sondors bike Hub Motor is done. I wish my wires fastened to the hall sensors were of that caliber! I could wiggle your wires quite a bit before they snapped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Yeeks the solder job in that photo is a little questionable. I hope that's just someone's stock photo... LOL I just saw your edit @SuperSport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 39 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Yeeks the solder job in that photo is a little questionable. I hope that's just someone's stock photo... LOL I just saw your edit @SuperSport. Questionable is putting it lightly! Yeah, I have not had to do mine yet. But that circuit board concept should be adapted to our wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I believe some motors already have it in EUCs so it depends on who's supplying the motors I bet. I remember seeing one poster's photos of his motor opened up, and they commented about mold on the PCB or some sort of corrosion. @esaj might remember that thread as I can't find it. They pointed out the problem on the hall sensor PCB board. If it's not one thing it's another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: mold on the PCB or some sort of corrosion. If it's not one thing it's another. Yeah, they need to be sealed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wences Mallol Navarro Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I don't have a code of authorization. What can I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Help @esaj! Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Unfortunately, I don't know that much about the differences of the hall-sensors. The safest bet would be to identify the original sensors and replace them with similar ones. If you're worried about the legs bending/breaking/touching each other, something like a small piece of strip board could be used, ie. cut a small piece with 3 adjacent strips and solder the sensor legs and the wires to the board (of course then also make sure that the strips can't contact anything ). Probably it's not worth the hassle... I don't think (but don't know for sure) that the G-forces are enough to break them, more likely they broke off because you were bending the legs back and forth before I'm not 100% sure, but maybe the hall-sensors could be replaced with (almost) any sensors that work similarly as the original ones. I have some US1881 (FET/CMOS, open drain output) and A3144E (BJT, open collector output) sensors. US1881: https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/Hall-US1881EUA.pdf A3144: https://www.elecrow.com/download/A3141-2-3-4-Datasheet.pdf (Discontinued, replaced by http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Magnetic-Digital-Position-Sensor-ICs/Hall-Effect-Unipolar-Switches/A1101-2-3-4-6.aspx ) Basically both are used similarly, the output is floating, until the hall-sensor triggers, pulling it to ground. On the mainboard-side, there should then be an input with a pullup-resistor, so when the sensor triggers, the voltage on the input drops to 0V. At least the small 3-phase BLDC's I ran using an Arduino used similar setup for their hall-sensors, so it could be that it's the typical way to handle the signaling in motors. But it's all guesswork, unfortunately, and I don't know if some specific sensor with certain magnetic sensitivity or such is required for correct operation of the motor/mainboard, so safer option is to get the same ones as the original. I did try to measure the resistances from them, but didn't get any reading as low as few ohms, maybe because there wasn't any magnetic fields nearby (on the motor, the permanent magnets on the outer rim could affect the readings, or they're some other type). I also have some with linear outputs, but as the signals used in 3-phase motor drives I've seen are usually "on/off"-type (digital) than continuous (analog), I didn't look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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