Ninebot One E+ and a portable gas generator?

[Bob Eisenman]

The Ninebot One E+ can support 260 pounds. The lightest 450 watt gas generator I could find is about 22 pounds.

Watts = current x voltage

The charger requires 120 volts AC at 2.5 amps. So a 450 watt source at 120 volts would provide up to 3.75 amps.

Watts/voltage = current

Carrying a 22 pound load in a backpack is not unreasonable.

After depleting the  Ninebot's battery the rider could stop, remove and start the gas generator, connect the standard charger and recharge the EUC in the regular way for an hour or more each time for extra miles.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004RCVRWW/ref=psd_mlt_bc_B004RCVRWW

Price is about $240

Supplying 2.5 amps would be 67% of Max load (3.75 amps). The generator runs 7.5 hours at 25% max load with 0.37 gallons gas. A run duration of over two hours per fill is predicted.

Any thoughts about the idea of carrying a 22 lb portable gas generator in a backpack to recharge a Ninebot One E+ for an hour or more at intervals of about 10 miles (green zone performance for the BMS)?

Too much hassel ? Too much to carry ?

[noisycarlos]

Too much hassle indeed. Also, you'd have to be careful not to roll the generator so it doesn't spill gasoline in your backpack.

Why not carry a screwdriver and a backup battery? That way you can replace it on the road in 5 minutes. A battery pack is roughly the same $$ as the generator.

[Merrittous MonoWheel]

Interesting idea.  Kind of like a hybrid EUC.  I would think that it would be more hassle than it is worth.  If you need to wait for an hour better to be sipping coffee and getting a free charge.  Carrying a generator, chances are you will spill gas on yourself which interferes with the aroma of the coffee you could be drinking.  I would think an extra battery would provide a better energy density.  Fun thought thought 

 

[Mono]

2 minutes ago, Merrittous MonoWheel said:

I would think an extra battery would provide a better energy density.

That definitely depends on how far you want to go. 

[Merrittous MonoWheel]

13 minutes ago, Mono said:

That definitely depends on how far you want to go. 

True. In the sense that carrying fuel would allow access to areas that don't have charging capabilities.  I have the 2400W Monster which should give me as much range as I need(hopefully). I would think that unless you are headed into the bush for a while the generator/fuel combination would be quite the hassle to carry.  If I was going camping with my truck for several days and playing with the EUC then I could see this as a good option but even then I would probably use an invertor off the truck. In most other cases there is access to power for recharging. 

Regardless it takes time to recharge (19hr empty in my case) which makes the battery swap more practical in many cases I can think of.  Doing multi day trips would need recharging breaks overnight regardless.  It all depends on where you are going.  

I had thought of solar charging a set of battery at a base when out playing on the EUC and then swapping out for the next day.  I'm not sure this is practical either though

 

[Mono]

Agreed, the application niche for a generator probably starts only beyond the grid independent range of 150km and is hence rather slim.

[Bob Eisenman]

The gas spilling concern is real indeed. Since it is a 4 cycle engine no mixing of oil with the gas is needed. Perhaps a trash bag within a backpack would do the job of isolating leaked sloshing fuel. A liter scew cap aluminum bottle for Coleman  types of stoves might contain a pourable fuel reserve.

Recharging and sipping coffee often finds the provider of AC not to be strategically placed for the linear distance ride.

Running a generator in the public space might present a new set of awkward challenges to be mastered.

For day ride lengths requiring the equivalent of two +  battery packs (Ninebot One E+) the idea has some unique advantages in terms of attainable distance.

Still...it's heavy (knee fatigue on rough routes), has a hazardous liquids transportation concern and seems a bit awkward in comparison to replacement battery packs.

Thanks for the feedback. Here is a URL for a sales video of it:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01GUKRQ50/ref=lb_va_rv_1

 

[Mono]

3 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

The gas spilling concern is real indeed. Since it is a 4 cycle engine no mixing of oil with the gas is needed. Perhaps a trash bag within a backpack would do the job of isolating leaked sloshing fuel.

Spilled fuel is indeed a mess you really don't want to have in a backpack. 

3 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

A liter scew cap aluminum bottle for Coleman  types of stoves might contain a pourable fuel reserve.

PET water bottles have proven to do this job surprisingly well, in my experience.

 

[steve454]

19 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said:

Any thoughts about the idea of carrying a 22 lb portable gas generator in a backpack to recharge a Ninebot One E+ for an hour or more at intervals of about 10 miles (green zone performance for the BMS)?

Sounds like a good idea, the only problem is where do you find the gasoline?

I mean, when the first tank runs out, after about 7 recharges?  That would get you about 100 miles.

[steve454]

5 hours ago, Mono said:

PET water bottles have proven to do this job surprisingly well, in my experience.

Does the pressure build and cause leakage at the cap in warm weather?  Water bottle caps don't have o-rings or seals.  Maybe you leave a little air space in the bottle?

[meepmeepmayer]

You know how loud a small gemerator like these red Honda things will be?

[Mono]

52 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Does the pressure build and cause leakage at the cap in warm weather?  Water bottle caps don't have o-rings or seals.  Maybe you leave a little air space in the bottle?

I have used them in the desert and seen them falling off motorbikes without breaking. Can't say as to the air space, most probably safer like that.

[Bob Eisenman]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You know how loud a small gemerator like these red Honda things will be?

The video claims it is quiet enough for US National Park standards of use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01GUKRQ50/ref=lb_va_rv_1

Sounds reasonable for use when transported in the trunk of one's car. 

It's probably dangerous in a backpack with an inappropriate gasoline container on a hot day.

[Bob Eisenman]

2 hours ago, steve454 said:

Does the pressure build and cause leakage at the cap in warm weather?  Water bottle caps don't have o-rings or seals.  Maybe you leave a little air space in the bottle?

I found an article on the internet that dictates standards for gas containers 

http://simplifiedsafety.com/blog/does_your_gas_can_meet_osha_requirements/

 

[Bob Eisenman]

Here is what an approved container for transporting a small amount of gasoline looks like.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01GWJZOVC/ref=mp_s_a_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1488424295&sr=8-29-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=fuel+container&psc=1

The 500 watt generator and this fuel container size would need to fit together in a backpack. 

In my area fuel stations are frequently found along the coastal roadways and within the various towns of suburban Boston.

EUC recharging with this generator transported in the trunk of a car , far from the nearest gasoline Station, sounds more pragmatic.

The 'red Honda' generator series 1000 watt model is advertised to be quiet but costs $800 and weighs 30+ pounds.

http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/honda-eu1000ian-1000w-inverter-generator?cm_mmc=Google-_-PRODUCTFEED-_-HONDA-_-EU1000IAN&CAWELAID=600009240000039007&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=41176163994&CATCI=pla-277258364043&catargetid=600009240005336314&cadevice=m&gclid=CLHbgbz5ttICFQ-BswodqogAHg

?

[Master Ong]

So 450Watt Generator is the minimum? Im looking for generator to power my 9bot at Burning Man

[RooEUC]

I think you'd be better sticking with electric. Using a petrol generator is loud, messy, dirty, smelly, heavy, toxic and more of a fire hazard.  I have the E+ too and I rigged up a very small portable charging solution that tripples my range. I have a thread about it. 

 

[Master Ong]

On 6/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, RooMiniPro said:

I think you'd be better sticking with electric. Using a petrol generator is loud, messy, dirty, smelly, heavy, toxic and more of a fire hazard.  I have the E+ too and I rigged up a very small portable charging solution that tripples my range. I have a thread about it. 

 

Can you link me the thread please?

[ubertoad]

Some steam powered/solid fuel generator running while you roll would make it 100% steampunk!

Not really practically usable, but man, just imagine gathering some wood to ride!

And I might be wrong, but when I checked energy density for drones, I found that batteries carry no less energy for their weight than gas. So the only benefit of gas motor is instant recharge.

[esaj]

10 hours ago, ubertoad said:

And I might be wrong, but when I checked energy density for drones, I found that batteries carry no less energy for their weight than gas. So the only benefit of gas motor is instant recharge.

Umm, gasoline has about 12200Wh / kg, whereas Li-Ion has up to 265Wh / kg. 

Li-ion

Specific energy	100–265 W·h/kg (0.36–0.875 MJ/kg)
Energy density	250–676 W·h/L (0.90–2.43 MJ/L)

 

Material	Volumetric	Gravimetric
Gasoline	9,700 Wh/l	12,200 Wh/kg
Black Coal solid =>CO2	9444 Wh/l	6667 Wh/kg
LNG	7,216 Wh/l	12,100 Wh/kg
Propane (liquid)	7,050 +/-450 Wh/l	13,900 Wh/kg

[zlymex]

I like long distance ride so I look for 800W gas generator two before. The lightest I found is 8.5kg(19 pounds).
However, the noise and the smell may be too difficult to tolerate, I settle down for external battery pack instead.
Now I got total 1560Wh of external pack under 7kg, enough for an extra 80km.

[RooEUC]

On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 9:58 AM, Marvin Ong said:

Can you link me the thread please?

I already did.  You even quoted the link.

[RooEUC]

Sticking with the theme of this thread another suggestion would be to add front and rear stabiliser wheels to your EUC and have a horse tow you as well as a large trailer full of hay.  That would get you a fairly long range and still be less messy and loud than a petrol engine generator.

[steve454]

On 6/20/2017 at 3:19 AM, esaj said:

Propane (liquid)

7,050 +/-450 Wh/l

13,900 Wh/kg

So, Propane is more energy dense than gasoline.  That's interesting, Propane powered forklifts are common, but almost no forklifts are powered by gasoline.  Propane is nice because you can change out the tanks easily, but refilling them takes a specialized truck and pump.  And repair facilities must have dedicated areas to work on vehicles with Propane fuel.  It is such a waste to have to empty the fuel system by burning off the Propane.  I asked a technician once, why can't they just pump out the Propane back in to the refueling truck, and he said, oh, it might be contaminated.  Obviously would not work with cars, nobody wants to change tanks on their cars.  To get back on topic, @Bob Eisenman, are there any generators powered by small (enough to fit in a backpack) Propane tanks?  Any gasoline powered engine can run on Propane with an adapter kit, but the smallest tanks I've seen weigh about 50 pounds.  I guess I should ask, what is the smallest Propane tank?  Never mind, Google, here I go!  Ah, you can get a two pack of 4 ounce propane tanks for about $6.74 at Walmart.  Well, that would solve the problem of gasoline leaking in the backpack.