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Weight vs bumps and holes


Roue Libre

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Hi folks,

I was thinking that Inmotion v8 is much lighter (14kg) than Gotway ACM (18+kg). This is certainly a plus for Inmotion if you have to lift the wheel (climb stairs or lift it into a shopping cart). However I was also thinking weight can be a plus for Gotway too. When riding over bumps, potholes, and sidewalk edges, the higher weight might give extra momentum to pass over without losing much speed. Does anyone have an opinion about this ?

Cheers

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Yes.  A 84kg rider on a 18kg wheel, has the same overall weight as a 88kg rider on a 14kg wheel.  Basically we all have enough mass to make the concern moot, some of us more than others, (clears throat). 

But your point about carrying, is a good one.  I've carried my 13kg wheel up as many as 50 steps at a time.  I would not like to try that with some of the heavyweights. Like this for example:

1bd530a62f.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Roue Libre said:

Hi folks,

I was thinking that Inmotion v8 is much lighter (14kg) than Gotway ACM (18+kg). This is certainly a plus for Inmotion if you have to lift the wheel (climb stairs or lift it into a shopping cart). However I was also thinking weight can be a plus for Gotway too. When riding over bumps, potholes, and sidewalk edges, the higher weight might give extra momentum to pass over without losing much speed. Does anyone have an opinion about this ?

Cheers

I own a V8 but not an ACM (though @Marty Backe's post have gotten me interested in the 1300W 84V).  The V8 is comfortable (just) carrying up stairs ... especially given the handle switch which allows you to just pick up the unit without turning it off.   I regularly take the V8 on the Chicago trains without any problems (stairs pictured) but I think anything heavier than 14 kg would be tough. It is easy to carry a skinny unit like the V8  ... I think the width of the ACM would add to the difficulty in carrying it up stairs. 

Screen Shot 2017-02-25 at 12.06.22 PM.png

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1 hour ago, Chris Westland said:

I think the width of the ACM would add to the difficulty in carrying it up stairs. 

Concur. My V8 and KS14-C weigh about the same (despite a much bigger battery in the King Song), but the V8 is easier to carry up and down stairs due to its narrower width. 

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6 hours ago, Roue Libre said:

When riding over bumps, potholes, and sidewalk edges, the higher weight might give extra momentum to pass over without losing much speed. Does anyone have an opinion about this ?

AFAICS, the lighter the wheel, the better. It is a general rule: non-suspended masses should be as small as possible. The momentum doesn't help to lift the wheel over bumps and it doesn't change the downward curve into potholes. The crucial point is that the wheel must be lifted when it hits a bump or the far end of a pothole. This lifting is the easier the lighter the wheel is. The exception would be when the ground is soft and the weight of the wheel is sufficient to level the ground out.

Otherwise, it is always worth to remember that it is very important to remain soft in the knees, as the knees are the sole means of suspension allowing to glide over rough terrain smoothly.

Personally, I feel the (relatively) light weight and the slender shape of the V8 to be a big advantage in my daily use. I was skeptical at first, but to built the wheel slimmer but higher was IMHO exactly the right design choice by InMotion. It has a number of advantages and I haven't experienced a single disadvantage yet.  

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31 minutes ago, who_the said:

Concur. My V8 and KS14-C weigh about the same (despite a much bigger battery in the King Song), but the V8 is easier to carry up and down stairs due to its narrower width. 

I really don't think it's due to width; rather the concentration of mass displacement in relation to the handle.

Take for example a 15KG kettlebell vs a 15KG dumbbell.

The 15KG kettlebell will feel heavier than the 15KG dumbbell, even though they are of the same mass, because the kettlebell has a lower center of gravity, which exerts more force (closer to the earth = stronger gravitational pull = higher weight, which itself is a measure of the pull of gravity on an object).

 

With the V8 & KS14-C, the battery displacements relative to their handles are what cause this discrepancy in perceived weight (the other main mass contributor, the wheel/motor component, is relatively in the same places for both wheels).

  • On the V8, the battery is housed higher and much closer to the handle, being up top, above the wheel/motor assembly (one of the reasons why the InMotion wheels are a bit taller than their analogous rival company EUC counterparts).
  • On the KS14-C, the batteries are housed lower and further away from the handle, near each pedal.

Thus, the KS14-C has more weight, i.e. gravitational pull, than the V8, despite both being of same or similar mass.

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4 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

I own a V8 but not an ACM (though @Marty Backe's post have gotten me interested in the 1300W 84V).  The V8 is comfortable (just) carrying up stairs ... especially given the handle switch which allows you to just pick up the unit without turning it off.   I regularly take the V8 on the Chicago trains without any problems (stairs pictured) but I think anything heavier than 14 kg would be tough. It is easy to carry a skinny unit like the V8  ... I think the width of the ACM would add to the difficulty in carrying it up stairs. 

Screen Shot 2017-02-25 at 12.06.22 PM.png

The 84v ACM is a beast of a wheel to carry. Doable of course, but I certainly wouldn't look forward to carrying it up those stairs very often.

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Interesting. The 2400w Monster is close to 70lbs and rides really smooth over most bumps (so far anyway) As for stairs, I just keep it on and walk it up.  I haven't tried more than an a couple of flights but those seemed easy.  That said picking it up and carrying is not really an issue for me either but I would rather have the machine do the work:-)

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53 minutes ago, Merrittous MonoWheel said:

The 2400w Monster is close to 70lbs and rides really smooth over most bumps (so far anyway)

Weight is not the only relevant parameter. Wheel diameter is another and probably the most relevant parameter when it comes to potholes and stairs. The larger the wheel, the more level the surface becomes in effect. If and only if the wheel is large enough, you can easily push it up staircases and in particular potholes become the smoother the larger the wheel is. The effect can be huge, which is easy to see when considering a wheel which is smaller than a very deep pothole (going low speed it will disappear in the hole) compared to a wheel which is, say, double the size of the pothole. 

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As I was in Paris last autumn for the PLEZv workshop I had a really bad choice with the hotel. Having no elevator and having the room in the 3rd floor was not the top issue... But carrying the MSuper V2 with full battery option was Sport in pure manner, want do. that every day.

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9 hours ago, Merrittous MonoWheel said:

Interesting. The 2400w Monster is close to 70lbs and rides really smooth over most bumps (so far anyway) As for stairs, I just keep it on and walk it up.  I haven't tried more than an a couple of flights but those seemed easy.  That said picking it up and carrying is not really an issue for me either but I would rather have the machine do the work:-)

Yeah interesting too... I didn't think about size. The Monster is so huge that you can roll it over stairs. I guess you don't use any trolley handle, just regular handle ?

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2 hours ago, Roue Libre said:

The Monster is so huge that you can roll it over stairs. I guess you don't use any trolley handle, just regular handle ?

I have ridden the monster only for a few 100m. From what I can remember and have seen however I don't think it is large enough to push it easily without a trolley. I never pushed my 26" bicycles up or down stairs but always carried them, so I wouldn't rely on 22" to be large enough for going up and down stairs super smoothly.

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11 minutes ago, Mono said:

I have ridden the monster only for a few 100m. From what I can remember and have seen however I don't think it is large enough to push it easily without a trolley. I never pushed my 26" bicycles up or down stairs but always carried them, so I wouldn't rely on 22" to be large enough for going up and down stairs super smoothly.

I also carry my bicycle up and down stairs.  It is much lighter then the Monster and the geometry is different.  That said I have ridden my bike down stairs but I don't feel inclined to ride the Monster down stairs.  With that weight one mistake and there is a 70 lb boulder and your body becoming an avalanche. Not good for you or anyone else that is in the way.  As for riding upstairs that is outside my skill set for both the bike and the Monster.  I can say that walking the Monster (unit turned on rider dismounted) works reasonably well on shorter stairs. My only issue is that I am to tall for the built in handle so I need to bend over to one side which is awkward  

I think with any of these options you can do them for a while but would you want to long term.  Control and comfort are the two key factors IMHO.  That said if I had a lot of stairs on my commute I would tend towards a smaller wheel that I could carry up if I didn't need the distance. If I needed distance I would go for the Monster or similar that I didn't need to carry but could make the unit do the work 

 

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