KS App/Firmware Improvements Suggestions! NEED YOUR VOTE!

[Electric Dreams]

I've messaged Tina regarding some things I didn't like about the new firmware update v1.23 she told me unless it's a problem for most people she wont get the developers to change anything. 

(Please remember this post is only for firmware V1.23 if you have not updated please do so and contribute to the post.)

 

The purpose of this post is to get Kingsong owners to speak up what they would like to see in the app(please be as detailed as possible)

 

I have two problems with the current firmware and App:

• Speed reduced at 25km/h at 50% of battery left. 

My wheel is currently speed unlocked so I can ride at 30km/h once battery is at 50% I can only ride at 25km/h. I want speed reduction to kick in at 20% or 25%.

• Exceeding speed Alarms be able to switch and turn off between Beep and "Please decelerate" and Vibration/Shake

Currently there is no way to change the way it alerts you. When I first received  my unit and rode past 30km/h at 90% of battery my wheel would shake/vibrate and if I pushed it even more it would start to beep. The constant beeping is very annoying for me and I usually cant hear it because I'm wearing earphones with music on. I want to be able to adjust the way the alarms are controlled allowing the rider to make decisions depending on the way they ride. 

 

EDIT:

I've condensed all the posts and links to make this post easier to read.   Below are other suggestions from other riders. 

• More customizations on pedal tilt back
  • Speed at which they tilt back
  • Angle at which they tilt back
  • When wheel is resting change 'fine tune' pedal angle 
• Bluetooth password
• Rename KS device
• Option of Larger pedal options
• Set voice prompts as off on default 
  • can be turned on through app
• Headlights
  • brighter headlight preferable
  • Settings for flash options of light
• Firmware updates not to consume too much power

MAJOR CHANGE FOR REDUCED SPEED NEEDED

 

 

[Jason McNeil]

30 minutes ago, Jack Frost said:

• Speed reduced at 25km/h at 50% of battery left. My wheel is currently speed unlocked so I can ride at 30km/h once battery is at 50% I can only ride at 25km/h. I want speed reduction to kick in at 20% or 25%.

Yeah, I agree, I wrote to her about this as well a couple weeks ago. It's too conservative, 25% (or 55V) is good compromise between the need for safety & not short-changing Customers on their expensive battery packs. In the case the KS18 1680Wh, there's 128 cells each capable of sustaining 36W of power, or 4,608W sustained over the entire pack, no rational reason to impose speed reductions there. 

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

• Speed reduced at 25km/h at 50% of battery left. 

My wheel is currently speed unlocked so I can ride at 30km/h once battery is at 50% I can only ride at 25km/h. I want speed reduction to kick in at 20% or 25%.

IMO this is a BIG deterrent from buying KingSong, especially in direct comparison with the Gotway wheels.

This will most definitely be a major factor affecting my decision on whether to upgrade my KS-18A or not to the upcoming KS18 model(s).

[cm16600]

Ageed, KS please remove speed limit at 50% and  set it  to 25 %.

[Addwyn]

There are already some threads of discussions about the improvements to be made to the Kingsong wheels : We should gather all these ideas in a single thread to share with the Kingsong's designers/development team... 

 

 

[Electric Dreams]

I appreciate all the input from EVERYONE. Please keep advertising this thread and I will post more polls regarding the other firmware suggestions so please follow this post and keep voting!

[Electric Dreams]

EDIT: I've added more polls based on the threads @Addwyn has linked to

[Eugene Pos]

It should cost KS quite a bit of $$$ to develop/modify the app/firmware.  But I hope they can appreciate that if they can do a good job the 1st (or maybe 2nd) time, then it saves them money in the long run since they don't need to update it again for a long time (except for bugs).

For #1 (Speed should not be reduced at 50%), I think that it might be a better idea to allow a configurable percentage. Then "20%" or "25%" can be used as the minimum value (you cannot set a value lower than this).

This will allow for heavier or risk adverse people to set higher values, while speedsters can set lower while still retaining a suitable buffer.  Win-win.

[Eugene Pos]

I also previously posted a list of suggestions in the Kingsong facebook page (here).  Some initial responses from Tina, so I'll duplicate it here for consolidation purposes.  

Please refer to the FB post for comments from members and Tina.

1. Allow user to select different angles of pedal tilt-back. 
More safety-minded users might prefer a stronger tilt-back, especially at higher speeds when a gentle tilt-back is not obvious enough.

Tina replied that this was a good idea, and they will consider it.

 

2. Allow user to select the response/speed that the pedal will tilt-back. 
Some users might prefer the tilt-back to kick in faster, so that he is warned in time when he is accelerating quickly.

Tina replied that this was a good idea, and they will consider it.

 

3. Allow user to set PIN for bluetooth connection, so that other people will not connect to his wheel without his permission. User can also choose to have no PIN.

Tina replied that this was a good idea, and they will consider it.

 

4. Allow user to do a factory reset (using the physical buttons only) so that all settings are back to factory default.

This is useful when user wants to change a completely different profile, or if he forgets his bluetooth PIN (see my previous suggestion), or if he is trying to troubleshoot his wheel. There must be different sounds for success and failure to reset.

Tina replied that they currently do not allow this due to after-sales considerations. Reset can be done by local retailer/distributer.

 

5. Allow user to change the "Hello KingSong" greeting message.

Either disable it, or replace with another sound.  If not, at least lower the volume because now it is very loud and some people will glare at us.

 

6. Allow user to rename their KS device in the mobile app.

Perhaps in the app and/or phone so that they can easily identify which is his/her wheel BEFORE connecting to it. This is very useful if there are many KS wheels around, and the app was not able to connect automatically (went into "Scan" mode).

 

7. Before updating a new firmware, do a check on the wheel to make sure it has no problems (e.g. incompatible board, unresponsive APIs, etc).

Another way is to allow the user to do a test update, where the app will go through the flashing process just to confirm that things are working properly (but the new firmware is not actually recorded into the wheel). This idea is similar to the way some CD/DVD burning software (ImgBurn test mode) allow you to do a test burn before doing the actual burn.

This is to reduce the risks of problematic or failed updates.

 

8. KS to control the distribution/sale of boards

This is to avoid firmware update problems for users due to corrupt sellers/retailers/distributors (i.e. Ninebot).

 

REJECTED feature requests:

1. Allow user to reverse a firmware update. 
The intent was if a user did not like a new firmware and wants to reverse the firmware update (e.g. version 1.22 -> 1.21). Or if an existing firmware introduced other (worse) bugs).  Right now, user has no other solution once the new firmware is flashed.

Tina replied that new firmware should be better than previous ones.  So I assume KS is not going to provide this feature.

 

2. Allow user to enable/disable pedal tilt-back.

Tina replied that they do not allow this due to safety concerns.

[abinder3]

I'd like to be able to set the amount of tilt (negative, zero, or positive) when the wheel isn't moving but is energized; like can be done in the Inmotion app for the V8. 

 

Allen

[Jason McNeil]

On 2/21/2017 at 11:50 AM, houseofjob said:

IMO this is a BIG deterrent from buying KingSong, especially in direct comparison with the Gotway wheels.

I'm confident the battery performance impairment will be addressed shortly, especially since it's effecting me personally... 

1 hour ago, abinder3 said:

I'd like to be able to set the amount of tilt (negative, zero, or positive) when the wheel isn't moving but is energized; like can be done in the Inmotion app for the V8

It's possible to set the resting pedal angle through the calibration function, not quite as easy as Inmotion, but it works. 

9 hours ago, Eugene Pos said:

Please refer to the FB post for comments from members and Tina.

FB is terrible for retaining information which you need to refer to later.

9 hours ago, Eugene Pos said:

I also previously posted a list of suggestions in the Kingsong facebook page (here).  Some initial responses from Tina, so I'll duplicate it here for consolidation purposes.

You've got some good stuff in here, some of the items like disabling 'Hello King Song' has been implemented through the App. I think the way KS ought to manage changes is along the lines of effort/benefit. The mid-battery performance limiting 'feature' is not well thought out, to put it right doesn't require much effort & would dramatically improve the experience of the Wheel. 

I'd also like to see:

• Large Pedal Options: in the West, the average size male foot is larger than an 7" and this needs to be reflected in the pedal length—pedals are arguably on THE most important aspects a Wheel.  The latest King Song pedals are among the best, but many Customers would be over the moon with larger pedals.
• Voice/Klaxon toggle: while the voice prompts may seem sophisticated & cool, the practical fact is that when riding, it's slightly embarrassing to be around people and being peremptorily told to 'slow down'. The traditional beep-beep road-runner style is preferable in most settings. 
• Brighter headlights: currently ok, but would better to have a super bright 1000 lumen headlight controlled through the App

@Jack Frost "5. Kingsong Wheel does not "spin out" when you lift it off the ground instead the wheel stops?"
All Wheel work like this, the solution seems to be a handle disengagement switch similar to what Inmotion & now Ninbot/Segway have on the S1. One could argue that this introduce an element of risk, particularly on the S1 design, because a newbie rider could fine himself absent-mindedly pulling at the handle while showing off or something.  

 

[abinder3]

I definitely like the idea of larger pedal options.

 

 

Allen

[abinder3]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like with the latest version of the KS firmware, when you disable the "kingsong" voice powering up the wheel, It also disables the rather loud 'horn' sound you get it you press it in the app.  Is that true?

 

 

Allen

[abinder3]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

 

It's possible to set the resting pedal angle through the calibration function, not quite as easy as Inmotion, but it works. 

 

 

Yea, I suppose it can be done the way it is.  However, if you want to change the resting pedal angle by about +/- 1 degree, it's rather hard because you have to hold it in the position you would like when calibrating it.  A +/- 1 degree change in resting pedal position is rather hard to do since you're actually holding it.

 

I'd like to be able to 'fine tune' my resting pedal position during a riding session (stopped of course) to feel what's the best feel for me.
(The Inmotion app is excellent at doing this.)

 

 

Allen

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, abinder3 said:

I'd like to be able to 'fine tune' my resting pedal position during a riding session (stopped of course) to feel what's the best feel for me.
(The Inmotion app is excellent at doing this.)

InMotion is also the only one to do this AFAIK.... ever.

[abinder3]

2 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

InMotion is also the only one to do this AFAIK.... ever.

Sounds like a good practice for the other EUC manufacturers to follow.

Until you've actually used that type of fine tuning, it seems to make a difference.
(Even to a 'newbie' like myself.)

 

Allen

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

Sounds like a good practice for the other EUC manufacturers to follow.

Good luck.

If you have much experience with Gotway/KingSong app development (i.e. mom & pop EUC co development), you just pray for a working app with legible English and no f**k ups. 

[RenaissanceMan]

I only recently upgraded my KS16 from FW 1.22 to 1.23. Comparing WheelLog data from similar rides with either version I noticed that energy consumption rose from on the average 20Wh/Km to about 30Wh/Km, a rise by a staggering 50%! This probably has been done to get more power to the wheel when starting from standstill and thus to avoid the cutout reported by several riders. It would also explain the observation by some that with FW 1.23 the KS16 now feels more "energetic" and smoother to ride. - However, at the same time at least in my case range gets reduced to only 2/3 of the previous FW version, a significant drop!

From my plots of current and voltage, it looks like the major increase is in the current, not the voltage drop. Also major spikes of 40A and more have been reported with FW 1.23 by others. With a fuse of 40A in place I hope Kingsong has made sure that this increased current does not pose a new danger to safe riding by "accidently" blowing the fuse.

Now my question: Is everyone happy with the new, reduced range or would we like to get back to the old extended range of previous FW versions?

[Bryan Wells]

the KS18-A has some of the worst "bump reaction" i have felt in a wheel, it wants to tilt forward bad when a lot of bumps are hit

[Electric Dreams]

Thank you for everyone who has contributed to this thread. I will be talking to Tina about this in detail and make sure she understands the concerns of everyone using a KS.

[US69]

2 minutes ago, Jack Frost said:

Thank you for everyone who has contributed to this thread. I will be talking to Tina about this in detail and make sure she understands the concerns of everyone using a KS.

Especially for the new KS16S i am really, really struggling to buy one as only half Batterie (420wh)  can be used with max Speed!!!

That means that on the second half of Batterie i would only get a normal KS16 or even less worth of a wheel....

That gets even more crazy when you think about a 1680wh KS18!

 

We all like the safety and Quality from KS, where -in my view- KS beats most competitors with ease....but that is a real Show stopper!!!

Jumping from 40 or 35kmh max to just only 25 is  to much......i would be a happy customer if they just make it a bit better or progressiv, for example:

Under 40%= 33kmh

under 30% = 30kmh

under 25% = 27kmh

under 20%= 25kmh

And perhaps some warnings under 40% if you draw over a certain amount of amps which can not be produced anymore....

 

But not that 50%=25kmh...thats ridiculous! Some of us are even trying to longer their Batterie life by only charging up to 80/90%! Can not be that after a bit drivng you are not able to get the promised Speed....

12 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

the KS18-A has some of the worst "bump reaction" i have felt in a wheel, it wants to tilt forward bad when a lot of bumps are hit

Hmmh...Can not say that for my 1200W Ks18...Same as GW V3...

[Electric Dreams]

12 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

the KS18-A has some of the worst "bump reaction" i have felt in a wheel, it wants to tilt forward bad when a lot of bumps are hit

Weird shouldnt it tilt back?

[Bryan Wells]

you notice how most wheels will tilt forward a little when turning sharp, well the ks-18 does that a lot more than any other wheel i have tried(yes i have calibrated it many times). And if you are off road, like grass, and the start to go kind of quick it soon starts tilting forward more and more until it almost drops you.

[abinder3]

18 hours ago, Bryan Wells said:

the KS18-A has some of the worst "bump reaction" i have felt in a wheel, it wants to tilt forward bad when a lot of bumps are hit

Hmmmmmmmm....I haven't noticed this with my KS18; at least compared to my Inmotion V8.  I ride the KS18 at about 45 psi and the V8 between 45-50 psi.

Would increasing your tire pressure help it to 'ride up' over the bumps better ?
(Just a thought since I really don't know.)

 

 

Allen

[Frode]

On 23.2.2017 at 6:24 AM, Bryan Wells said:

the KS18-A has some of the worst "bump reaction" i have felt in a wheel, it wants to tilt forward bad when a lot of bumps are hit

I have the same experience with my KS-16. When I run on gravel road, with say 20 km/h, and the road is full of small shallow bumps, much like driving on a traditional washboard, it will tilt forward and I have to reduce speed a lot, to almost walking speed (depending on how bumpy the road is, and the "frequency" I hit them with).

I have a hypothesis of why this happens also. When hitting each bump it will generate a small spike in the speed (a small and abrupt speed reduction each time you hit the facing wall of a bump) that in turn will be registered by the accelerometer as if the gravitational arrow - usually pointing straight down - is pointing a little forward. The system will conclude that the wheel is tilted a little backwards and will adjust the vertical to compensate for this. This will happen as long as you are driving over these bumps because the accelerometers will continue to receive these speed spikes, so the angle will continuously be tilted more and more forward. Just a hypothesis though...(Always remember that even a plausible explanation may be false. Plausibility is a necessary but not sufficient requirement... )