Marty Backe Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, captainwells said: Do we have any idea what manufacturing dates that includes? My Monster was completed on 1/12/17. At this point I don't trust the connectors (fully) on any Gotway wheel regardless of manufacture date. Because Gotway has never entered the discussion anywhere I consider any Gotway fixes as rumor. Opening my ACM and applying silicon was fast enough that I'm doing the Monster next. And you don't have to remove the pedals on the Monster so it should really be fast. I still do think the odds are in our favor that we won't have a problem, but I hate that little sense of doubt in the back of your mind as you're cruising 25mph.
Bob Eisenman Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 'Creep and craze' in lead - tin solder connections exposed to both cyclic thermal stress and mechanical stress from road vibration. Just a thought https://www.science.gov/topicpages/j/joint+fatigue+failure.html An engineer explained it to me once using the repetitively bent piece of thin plexiglass as a visual queue.
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Fantastic post. Agreed, it really bothers me that Gotway contributes nothing to the discussion. I just don't get it, unless the Western market for their products is so small relative to their Asian sales that they don't care about us. Nothing not to get. North American EUC sales is a blip compared to Asian or European sales. Just launch any of these EUC apps, like the InMotion app, that will show you geo-located riders across the globe. Asia and Europe will show proliferations / seas of dots, while a populous country like the US, at best, has a handful of freckles in the major coastal city centers. Gotway answers to power distributors with financial weight, most with brick and mortar stores, who send their representatives to Shenzhen, carrying fielded user complaints. I have never seen or heard of a brick and mortar EUC store in North America. Plus, what most don't consider: Most of the key people at a small mom & pop EUC co are not going to be able to have meaningful conversations in English. Only the international sales reps like a Jane Mo or Linnea will somewhat be able to relay the message, but, as in any business, things get lost in translation, especially if you are not able to speak directly to the source (ie. engineers, higher ups) China is not a free democracy like a US; censorship is real! Most likely, international Gotway reps can even access a site like this via VPNs. Count in the difficulties with English, and you can understand the lack of presence on a forum like this.
Marty Backe Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 42 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Nothing not to get. North American EUC sales is a blip compared to Asian or European sales. Just launch any of these EUC apps, like the InMotion app, that will show you geo-located riders across the globe. Asia and Europe will show proliferations / seas of dots, while a populous country like the US, at best, has a handful of freckles in the major coastal city centers. Gotway answers to power distributors with financial weight, most with brick and mortar stores, who send their representatives to Shenzhen, carrying fielded user complaints. I have never seen or heard of a brick and mortar EUC store in North America. Plus, what most don't consider: Most of the key people at a small mom & pop EUC co are not going to be able to have meaningful conversations in English. Only the international sales reps like a Jane Mo or Linnea will somewhat be able to relay the message, but, as in any business, things get lost in translation, especially if you are not able to speak directly to the source (ie. engineers, higher ups) China is not a free democracy like a US; censorship is real! Most likely, international Gotway reps can even access a site like this via VPNs. Count in the difficulties with English, and you can understand the lack of presence on a forum like this. I vote this "most depressing post of the day" But I agree.
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 @Marty Backe Believe you me, I wish a lot of this weren't the case as well (residing in the EUC-barren US)
meepmeepmayer Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Not very happy about the prospect of having to open my 84V ACM (lose guarantee), doing some electrical work (never done that before)... but I don't want to die either Since I'm planning to do mountain rides (=constant, steep, long inclines) when the weather gets better looks like there's no alternative though... What's the difference between siliconing the connectors and doing the soldering (or whatever) like in the video? Maybe completely new connectors are best (like the repair in the speedyfeet 100 mile ride video)? Are the other connections good (for example, the colored motor wire connections to the mainboard)? Well, not sure if I would consider Gotway for future wheels. Barebones is one thing, unsafe is another. Huge thanks to @KingSong69 for the details!
Jason McNeil Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Before placing my first GW order, I asked my rep for more information & what was done to solve it. The unofficial response is: "The wire soldering failures has been solved, we changed the connectors before Chinese New Year, and handled it with cold pressing techonology to stop it go off again. " There does seem to be something of a tradition with insufficiently tested early model GWs, where the bleeding edge is quite literally that!
meepmeepmayer Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 About the quality topic in general, I don't think the lower US sales matter. It's not like there are no Euros on this forum. It's not like they use better connectors for other markets. Do Gotway do any public relations on the French forums, or Chinese places? I doubt it (but admittedly I don't know). It's probably a combination of small company/no money/enough to do already, "fuck you I got your money already" capitalism (which tends to do minimal effort for the given price) combined with lack of accountability and competition, and the Chinese "good enough" mentality (see that "black marker on accidental drill hole" thing in @Rehab1's thread). Here's a great article about the latter: https://aeon.co/essays/what-chinese-corner-cutting-reveals-about-modernity
captainwells Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Before placing my first GW order... Does this mean you're gonna start selling Gotway? I would love to not have to deal with AliExpress any more.
Jason McNeil Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, captainwells said: Does this mean you're gonna start selling Gotway? I would love to not have to deal with AliExpress any more. It was the Monster that made me capitulate, it's motor magnetic force was too strong
meepmeepmayer Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: ... Gotway: "We fixed the problem for newer wheels (or so we say), existing wheels are not our problem". No surprises there...
Marty Backe Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Before placing my first GW order, I asked my rep for more information & what was done to solve it. The unofficial response is: "The wire soldering failures has been solved, we changed the connectors before Chinese New Year, and handled it with cold pressing techonology to stop it go off again. " There does seem to be something of a tradition with insufficiently tested early model GWs, where the bleeding edge is quite literally that! Wow, you're selling Gotway's now??? Fantastic!
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 41 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Before placing my first GW order, Woah, game changer! 41 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: "The wire soldering failures has been solved, we changed the connectors before Chinese New Year, and handled it with cold pressing techonology to stop it go off again. " *Welp* Ok, I guess *fingers crossed* this might encompass my early January 2400WH Monster(?).... News like this always puts you a step above Jason! 27 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: It was the Monster that made me capitulate, it's motor magnetic force was too strong @Jason McNeil You'll love it! While Gotway and the weight of the Monster has it's drawbacks, it's the closest thing to feeling as stable as a car or motorcycle I've ever come across in an EUC!
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: About the quality topic in general, I don't think the lower US sales matter. The lower sales point is more about the fact that there is no US-based distributor or group that can go to Shenzhen, dictate changes, and have them stick due to the financial impact of their sales account. At the very least, all the French Gotway distribs and Korean Gotway distribs seem to pool together to demand changes, which Gotway must, and do fulfill, or suffer the consequences (see my post here) If you think about it, in the current EUC game, the distributors are their real customers, placing significant bulk orders amounts, not random stray EUC forum posters. A proper and reputable EUC distributor gives their customers their voice representatively. Hopefully @Jason McNeil joining the Gotway trail gives hope to solving these kind of QA complaints.
abinder3 Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, houseofjob said: Woah, game changer! *Welp* Ok, I guess *fingers crossed* this might encompass my early January 2400WH Monster(?).... News like this always puts you a step above Jason! @Jason McNeil You'll love it! While Gotway and the weight of the Monster has it's drawbacks, it's the closest thing to feeling as stable as a car or motorcycle I've ever come across in an EUC! Have you tried the KingSong 18B??? Seems pretty stable. Allen
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, abinder3 said: Have you tried the KingSong 18B??? Seems pretty stable. No, but I own a KS-18A (see my sig), should have the same physics Now, I pose a similar question back to you: have you really rode the Monster (not just few minute test ride)? Having ridden both KS18 and Monster daily, I stand by my statement.
Marty Backe Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, abinder3 said: Have you tried the KingSong 18B??? Seems pretty stable. Allen I assume that the KS18 is about as 'stable' as the MSuper. The Monster is in its own league. When I ride the beach trails with the Monster I don't care how strong the wind is or from what direction, the Monster moves where I point it without much buffeting at all. The MSuper or other wheels seem to act like little sails and it's a constant struggle. That's just one example of how different the Monster is. That's not to put down the KS18 or any other wheel. But just to affirm that the Monster is a real road machine that stands apart from others It really is in a class by itself.
abinder3 Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 23 minutes ago, houseofjob said: No, but I own a KS-18A (see my sig), should have the same physics Now, I pose a similar question back to you: have you really rode the Monster (not just few minute test ride)? Having ridden both KS18 and Monster daily, I stand by my statement. Wow. Seem a little touchy by your remark. I never said anything bad about the monster. Allen
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Agreed. It's really just a function of tire width and EUC weight (2.5" x 18" MSuper or KS18 tire -vs- 2.75" x 22" Monster tire; 40+ lbs MSuper or KS18 -vs- ~70 lbs Monster) If or when KingSong decides to put out a KS22 or greater, I'm sure I will add that to the top of the most stable list as well.
US69 Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I assume that the KS18 is about as 'stable' as the MSuper. Nope...absolutly not! The KS18 because of its high shell and steering is not comparable to the Msuper.... Msuper is more like a 16inch than an 18inch...much more moveable...but therefore feeling much more clumsy and shaky than the Ks18. (talking about the 1200w heavy 1360/1680 version)...the Ks18 is like a tank..the V3 is max a Jeep/SUV... each of the wheel has its own advantage and disadvantages and its hard to say which is "better"....but a stabilty ride as on the Ks, which i guess its because it is leaning against the knee, i never had on any other wheel.... my 2 cents :-) And before someones says it: i guess the monster is a class of its own :-) But as owning the KS18 AND the V3 its like day and night for me....
Marty Backe Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Nope...absolutly not! The KS18 because of its high shell and steering is not comparable to the Msuper.... Msuper is more like a 16inch than an 18inch...much more moveable...but therefore feeling much more clumsy and shaky than the Ks18. (talking about the 1200w heavy 1360/1680 version)...the Ks18 is like a tank..the V3 is max a Jeep/SUV... each of the wheel has its own advantage and disadvantages and its hard to say which is "better"....but a stabilty ride as on the Ks, which i guess its because it is leaning against the knee, i never had on any other wheel.... my 2 cents :-) Very interesting. Maybe that's another reason why the MSuper has become such a popular 18" wheel for people who want the advantages of 18" yet still want the handling of a small wheel. I'm showing my ignorance of all the wheels out there - I really need to expand my collection
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 23 minutes ago, abinder3 said: Wow. Seem a little touchy by your remark. I never said anything bad about the monster. Not touchy, just your post seemed to infer (see: your 3 question marks) that the KS18 was more stable, which is not my experience (esp. after many, many miles). And I'm also not saying the KS18 is not stable, which it is!, just not to the degree of the Monster IMHO. If you can't tell in my sig, I am loyal to no brand or model; only care about the wheel's actual real world experience. I have now, with receipt soon of my Rockwheel GT16, purchased a wheel from every reputed EUC manufacturer. P.S. Also, like @KingSong69 is saying, because of the rectangular form factor, I actually class the KS-18 series in a whole different class unto it's own, unlike every other equilateral, circular body EUC model out. Mainly the handling and how you can manipulate the KS18 is a bit different / more pronounced. (although handling on the Monster does remind me of it)
US69 Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, Marty Backe said: Very interesting. Maybe that's another reason why the MSuper has become such a popular 18" wheel for people who want the advantages of 18" yet still want the handling of a small wheel. I'm showing my ignorance of all the wheels out there - I really need to expand my collection when i get it correct...not at home...the KS18 also has a 2.75 wheel...and it is 20cm minimum higher... if i got no clue and dont know it better, i would say from "feeling" that the KS18 is 20" and the V3 is 18".... would like to try the monster....but otherwise the even more weight and no trolley (and the much to high price!) stops me from interest
houseofjob Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: when i get it correct...not at home...the KS18 also has a 2.75 wheel...and it is 20cm minimum higher... Wow, did KingSong change the wheel sizing on the KS18B? My KS18A wheel is the standard 18" x 2.5" *smh
US69 Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, houseofjob said: Wow, did KingSong change the wheel sizing on the KS18B? My KS18A wheel is the standard 18" x 2.5" *smh ok...nope...sorry, please, checked a tyre buy for it.....i was wrong then! 2,5 is correct.... but as said..the high shell makes the difference
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