Marty Backe Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just saw this on the Gotway Facebook page. One of our Spanish friends had a wheel failure - same crappy connector issue we are becoming way to familiar with. And I think we have the very first video of a Gotway wheel collapse as the wire breaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Cool decals, especially the one that says all wheel drive I think it's the beginning of a repair video, the solder was nice and shiny, at the end he said lets go repair this. Maybe he pulled it apart just to show his repair skills? Very convenient, easy to repair location. I can't see much stress on the wires there, even riding on rough ground. But it might be a good place to put a zip tie on those three wires, to share the load and vibration. That way, the individual wire might not separate as easily. Have you opened any of your wheels and looked closely at the wiring? I haven't on the Ninebot, but the previous two I did just to see what the control boards looked like. Am thinking it might be a good idea to do a pull test on all the wires, just a little pull, to see if any are not connected properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 As I said in another thread, if you throw your lap top or TV down the stairs a few times, eventually it won't work. This soldering may be fine for a static piece of electronics but is unacceptable in a machine that gets shaken about so much, just riding on rough streets, never mind being thrown down the road multiple times. Gottway, it's really time to find this person in your production line and show them the door, or retrain them. Yes I really do think it's one person responsible for these errors. This is manual work and no two people can do it the same way. Two people with two good, but different ways is fine, but one bad way = potentially a 50% failure rate. How many of us are riding around on a poor solder/crimp time bomb (Gottway or other)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Smoother said: How many of us are riding around on a poor solder/crimp time bomb (Gottway or other)? None of us ! Because we know about the problem, and we've all since checked, haven't we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 There are some failures caused by bad connectors also in France. I find this frightening. So please, @Linnea Lin Gotway, @Jane Mo we really need some reassuring information from you on how to solve, or what you plan to solve this problem. In the meantime, it makes me stop planning to buy new gotway machines until this problem is solved. I still love gotway machine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danw872 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Cerbera said: None of us ! Because we know about the problem, and we've all since checked, haven't we ? I checked mine the day I received it but still thinking about changing the connectors to XT150. Better to be safe than sorry right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabba Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I just bought an msuper s+ and I also checked my wires and it looks fine, I think every body should do that no matter how new your wheel is, it's not hard just a few screws and you pull the side plates out give the wires a slight tug and your done. after an incident happen is not the time to check it. Am just glad he wasn't going down the hill when it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Wow that's scary, is thay only happening with msuper3 or with other gotway models ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Not only msuper3. One mentioned the same problem on his "monster". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 It seems to be due to overheat of the motor wires, maybe a stiff climb and a heavy rider at high speeds ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Problem seams to have nothing to do with the connector itself, as Msuper and ACM have different connectors. Seams very badly done solders, to less solder or done wrong, perhaps not hot enough, to less solder.... Solder/Connection gets hot on high stress, Long hills with high amperage and the solder melts away and Tata: happy faceplant! We have reports now on Msuper V3, V3s+, ACM and as @koto said on the France Forum even an Monster..... On FB someone told: "Gotway is Aware of this Problem"....but i have never seen them jump in to any discussion and clarified anything.... I also would gess that this Problem is man made...someone who has no clue of what he is doing is doing the solder Job! There will come the day when somebody is really, really badly injured.....unfortunatly just a question of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 That would mean the bad soldering wouldn't be recognizable by opening the wheel of it hasn't been put under high stress already ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Everyone should pull on the wires at minimum, and better to resolder even if the wires are holding when pulling on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I'm not certain a tug test would assure the wire doesn't come undone from the solder joint. Looking at that video there is a good amount of solder still on the wire and solder in the connector which makes me wonder if Gotway is using a too low of a melting point solder. There are different solders on the market with varying melting points. My working theory is that under load those wires heat up with the current draw possibly melting the solder joint and at that point the wire is free to detach. If I had one of these wheels I would proactively either epoxy the wire to the connector to make a physical joint to resist detachment or splice in new connectors with crimped and soldered wire joints or just solder the wires together with a smaller wire tied around the joint and the works gripped with heat shrink tubing. How many times does one need to disconnect things? If it's often then a connector makes sense. If it's once in a blue moon, cutting wires isn't the end of the world if accidents can be avoided. It would be nice if someone had a temperature probe that could measure some real world temperature values to see how hot these connections are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi, I have followed your suggestion to put some epoxy on the solder, epoxy is said to resist to a temperature of +80°C, however the solder should start fusion only at about 230°C while epoxy only resist 80°C up to 120°C, so will it be enough if the solder starts to detach ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 My 2 cents: I have seen this before throughout the myoelectric projects I have been involved in. The end of the wire was tin dipped prior to the final connection (or lack of). The shinny surface of the wire and connector indicate excellent solder penetration. On a closer observation the inside of the connector has a small divot in the solder where the wire was inserted prior to the molten stage. This is an indicator that the connector acted as a heat sink during the soldering process draining the heat away from the tinned wire. Both the wire and connector never achieved a uniform molten stage. Additionally the wire was cut to short for a definitive solid connection. If I were to wager I would bet the solder connections are performed ultrasonically and not by an employee using a hand held soldering gun. Unfortunately if the ultrasonic equipment is not dialed in properly adequate flow of the solder between the wire and connector will never be accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/19/2017 at 7:46 PM, steve454 said: Am thinking it might be a good idea to do a pull test on all the wires, just a little pull, to see if any are not connected properly. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 If they are connected properly, would you add epoxy to it or just leave it that way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: <snip> If I had one of these wheels I would proactively either epoxy the wire to the connector to make a physical joint to resist detachment or splice in new connectors with crimped and soldered wire joints or just solder the wires together with a smaller wire tied around the joint and the works gripped with heat shrink tubing. How many times does one need to disconnect things? If it's often then a connector makes sense. If it's once in a blue moon, cutting wires isn't the end of the world if accidents can be avoided. <snip> I'm very lazy about doing this (and maybe like to live on the edge?) but I do believe I'll open my 3 wheels eventually. When I do, my current plan is to apply heat shrink tubing on top of every connection. That will greatly reduce any physical stress on the wires and should (in theory) keep the wires connected even if there is some melting of the solder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I'm very lazy about doing this (and maybe like to live on the edge?) but I do believe I'll open my 3 wheels eventually. When I do, my current plan is to apply heat shrink tubing on top of every connection. That will greatly reduce any physical stress on the wires and should (in theory) keep the wires connected even if there is some melting of the solder. You probably don't have to worry Marty because your wheels are protected by the wheel gods because you have Gotway bling on your helmut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 8 hours ago, Pingouin said: Hi, I have followed your suggestion to put some epoxy on the solder, epoxy is said to resist to a temperature of +80°C, however the solder should start fusion only at about 230°C while epoxy only resist 80°C up to 120°C, so will it be enough if the solder starts to detach ? I'm thinking that the epoxy might help form a physical bond between the wire's outer covering and the plastic connector. Google seems to indicate that epoxy degrades at 350 F or 177 C so I think it should be okay? Hopefully the outside of the wire doesn't get anywhere that hot. As long as the epoxy is able to adhere to the wire and connector it might work? I haven't applied epoxy to wire shielding before so I don't know how well they bond so if you can find some heat shrink tubing large enough to get over the connector and that will shrink enough to grab onto the wire that might be the best way to go. The epoxy idea just popped into my head when I made that post as I don't know if heat shrink tubing would shrink enough. Basically we're just trying to get some insurance so even if the solder melts that the wire isn't going to come out of the connector. Marty might be light enough so that it isn't a concern, but maybe for a heavier rider going up a steep hill, the current draw to do so could possibly produce some high temperatures? Add that to cheap solder, and it could be a recipe for trouble? EDIT: Or even maybe using some silicone sealant to bond the wire to the area of the connector might help. http://heatshrinktubingdirect.com/adhesive_lined_polyolefin_shrink_tubing.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duf Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Just a heads up I asked Ian from Speedyfeet if he could reach out to Gotway about this which he did. The answer he got back was that they now were using a different crimp style connector that should not have this problem. Of course it doesn't help all the fragile connectors already out there in the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Duf said: Just a heads up I asked Ian from Speedyfeet if he could reach out to Gotway about this which he did. The answer he got back was that they now were using a different crimp style connector that should not have this problem. Of course it doesn't help all the fragile connectors already out there in the wild. And just think, you were riding through the swamp with gators all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: using some silicone sealant to bond the wire to the area of the connector might help. That seems like a good idea, and you wouldn't have to disconnect any wires in the first place like you would with heat shrink tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, steve454 said: That seems like a good idea, and you wouldn't have to disconnect any wires in the first place like you would with heat shrink tubing. More specifically, I should have said Heat Shrink Tape for this particular case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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