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What causes most accidents?


Alexa

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44 minutes ago, steve454 said:

what about treatment for tense muscles from over use?

And then the question about taking yoga  classes comes to mind.

Walking tends to undo the condition I described. Weight distribution on different parts if the anatomy throughout the walk step probably explains it.

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On 2/22/2017 at 0:34 AM, JimB said:

So, do we think it's reasonable to be legally allowed to risk lung cancer and death by smoking while being required by law to wear a helmet (still risking death) on a motorcycle?

We don't need to turn every good idea into a law.  Wear seat belts, helmets, and wrist guards - but keep the legislature out of it.

I'm not sure whether JimB is trolling or not, but I do have a standard response to this idea that we should never restrict freedoms simply for public safety.  

Most developed countries cannot refuse medical assistance to someone who is injured, and a lot of these injuries end up in unpaid bills picked up by the hospital or State (this is in particular a problem with ER which is causing many hospitals to shut their ER simply for economic reasons).  It also increases insurance costs for everyone when one person accrues high medical bills, creates political problems when mothers and wives pursue victimhood narratives, and so on.  

Thus someone who doesn't wear a helmet, and suffers permanent brain injury which makes them wards of the State, becomes a huge burden on all other taxpayers, and a sop on the medical system that deprives responsible people of care by sucking up resources.  

My daughter is an intensive care nurse, and the majority of her cases (in Arizona) are motorcycle head injuries due to not wearing a helmet.   Most are terminal, and most of the hospital bills (which run into $10millions) will go unpaid.  This is a major reason for malpractice claims.  

In short, I think there needs to be a law to protect taxpayers and society from the irresponsibility or bad luck of individuals who won't wear a helmet when having an accident (or won't stop smoking before they get cancer; etc. etc.).  

If we were cruel enough to tell these unfortunate souls to just disappear and don't bother us (as you might see in more primitive societies)  I guess this wouldn't be a problem.  But laws protect all of us from irresponsible people that hurt all of society, sap our economic health, and create endless opportunities for victimhood narratives that derail our healthcare and political system.  

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13 minutes ago, Chris Westland said:

Most developed countries cannot refuse medical assistance to someone who is injured,

I was searching LinkedIn and am sure I read your profile. You must speak fluent Chinese ? Has your time abroad been a beneficial career experience ?

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Past the learning of the basic curve I'd say 99% of all accidents I've seen or had are due to excessive speed for the conditions. 

Racing motorcycles and martial arts teaches you (if you live) to not do the hand/arm out to protect yourself thingy, roll with it.

I wear a helmet and gloves all the time, period. Seen too many noses scraped off, too many teeth fluttering across the roadways, sidewalks and bar room floors and too my deaths and brain damage from just a simple fall/crash. Gloves are nice, they keep the skin on your hands so you can change your own bandages even if you break  a few fingers.

 

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I had my first faceplant a week ago when my wheel went into a trench that was covered with leaves. It looked fun but I didn't know how deep it actually was.

I floated in the air for what seemed a decent amount of time, came down on one foot and one hand, rolled and was up instantly. It was such a pretty roll and recovery that I looked around hoping someone had seen that.

Only later did I notice my helmet was dented and scrapped just above the temple.

Since then I probably step off at least twice a day, and got a few more face plants when I was looking for trouble.

So, mandating helmets? Probably. I mean, if you have the benefit of socialized medicine then sure the State can morally mandate you take a medicum of responsibility.

Since the USA does not have socialized medicine then I see no obligation for people to use any sort of protective equipment or behavior.

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21 hours ago, Chris Westland said:

In short, I think there needs to be a law to protect taxpayers and society from the irresponsibility or bad luck of individuals who won't wear a helmet when having an accident (or won't stop smoking before they get cancer; etc. etc.).  

When i was in the military, they made a regulation that if you got injured in an auto accident and it was found that you weren't wearing your seatbelt, that your medical expenses would be your responsibility.  In every other situation of course, the military would take care of you if you got hurt in any way.  It was a way to prod people to follow the traffic law.  It also took the military off the hook if someone did get injured, because we were told to follow the law, it gave us the choice, but laid out the consequences.

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23 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said:

I was searching LinkedIn and am sure I read your profile. You must speak fluent Chinese ? Has your time abroad been a beneficial career experience ?

I am fluent in Chinese (though there is always room for improvement) and spend summers in China.  From a pure career standpoint (at least as a professor) I don't think you need to leave your hometown.  But all of the exciting developments today seem to be in Asia, and I have enjoyed watching China's rise (my first trip to China was in 1992 when it was a totally different world).  I wouldn't change a thing about my career.

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Hi, @Alexa ! Good to have your participation here.

I completed your quick survey and would encourage others to do so (it was fast and painless).

If you are willing to spend a few hours searching the forum, I can assure you that you will find the most comprehensive catalog of EU injuries in these pages. Besides self reported injuries you will also find member reports of news items concerning EU crashes.

Have fun and good luck!

Chris

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On 3/19/2017 at 8:02 AM, Mono said:

what are medicare and medicaid then?

Those two programs are the opposite of socialized medication because they are not agnostic on who gets medical care.

People often mistake a government subsidy for socialism; for something to be socialist both the financing and the service has to be inclusive. Public-private partnerships are never socialist.

Example: the US postal system is a social program because everyone pays into it and everyone is legally allowed to use it.

Counter-example: the HUD social welfare program. Theoretically a social program because everyone pays and everyone can get into it (just be broke!), in practice who knows what it is because of all the regulations that determine who gets it.

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This discussion is a great idea. I try to write my experience but my english is not too good, sorry.

First of all I live between city and county. I had a lot of accidents on bike, motorcycle, skating, human powered and electric unicycles. Thankfully most of them in country and off road.

I fall a lot in my first week with a cheap One Wheel. All of them for inexperience and most saved running away from my EUC.

The second week I have a painful one when my foot get hooked in a parked car wheel and get crash faceplanting on the sidewalk. Btw not more painful than the crash I have whit the bike two months ago in the same place (sliding front wheel in fallen leaves). Not more than a little scratches in hands and pain in my shoulder for the two accident.

I get confidence in my forest roads and get a lot of power down crashes always saved letting the EUC take the worst part at the time I jump away from the disaster.

Then I buy the wrong EUC. This one comes with defective battery... ruining my hopes for a safe and confidence riding this great invention. I never see I'm putting in more danger the pedestrians around me.

Mounts after I buy the third EUC, this time I run very happy without crashing.

From this history I think the most important thing is known what are you doing, if you're inexperienced or not have confidence yet with your wheel first of all is assure to no hurt anyone. Safe belt must be mandatory if you are inexperienced, please don't allow your 15kg wheel run without you in populated streets.

For avoid self inflicted damage you must have a good trained body, practice the fallings, run, stretch muscles, improve your balance and falling skills practicing judo or acrobatics. Most of falling hurts comes from afraid and unknown of how avoid damage.

I mostly sure of allowing an adult  drive along streets must come with the demonstration of knowledge for local rules and self capabilities, like mostly all vehicles that comes without license

I agree to wear gloves, jacket, long pants and closed shoes for training but is not a replacement for knowing and respect what are you doing and where you are.

Helmet is your unique life insurance over 40 km/h

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On 3/21/2017 at 1:06 PM, LanghamP said:

People often mistake a government subsidy for socialism; for something to be socialist both the financing and the service has to be inclusive. Public-private partnerships are never socialist.

Example: the US postal system is a social program because everyone pays into it and everyone is legally allowed to use it.

Counter-example: the HUD social welfare program. Theoretically a social program because everyone pays and everyone can get into it (just be broke!), in practice who knows what it is because of all the regulations that determine who gets it.

Not to get into politics, but I do think this explanation is a bit simplistic.  

Socialism is a basket term that addresses questions of the role of the state, utopian expectations and scientific rationality.  There are many takes on what it should be, heatedly argued, and sometimes implemented.  These cover economics: e.g., planned , self-managed , state-directed, market socialism, etc.; and politics: e.g.,  anarchism, democratic socialism,Leninism,Libertarianism, religious socialism, etc.  

I'd say modern the Chinese Communist take on socialism follows Deng Xiao-ping's assertion that "It doesn't matter whether your cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice".  He said this in 1960 during the Great Leap Forward, and it got him sent off to a labor camp.  In those days, the country was run by Mao, a charismatic leader educated under the old Qing Dynasty schooling system that emphasized poetry and literature.  Mao didn't get science or management at all.  But the country is now run by engineers, and from what I can see, they are more interested in 'cat performance' than 'cat color'.   Just my $0.02.

I've always thought that any given take on socialism simply provides a set of artificial constructs that serve as standard vocabulary for political discourse and legal arguments.  Politics is always confrontational, but without some basic vocabulary, it's hard to spot who is an amigo, and who is enemigo.   Socialism tends to cast this argument as class warfare rather than a war of powerful individuals (e.g., dictatorships and monarchies). 

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15 minutes ago, Demargon said:

This discussion is a great idea. I try to write my experience but my english is not too good, sorry.

First of all I live between city and county. I had a lot of accidents on bike, motorcycle, skating, human powered and electric unicycles. Thankfully most of them in country and off road.

I fall a lot in my first week with a cheap One Wheel. All of them for inexperience and most saved running away from my EUC.

The second week I have a painful one when my foot get hooked in a parked car wheel and get crash faceplanting on the sidewalk. Btw not more painful than the crash I have whit the bike two months ago in the same place (sliding front wheel in fallen leaves). Not more than a little scratches in hands and pain in my shoulder for the two accident.

I get confidence in my forest roads and get a lot of power down crashes always saved letting the EUC take the worst part at the time I jump away from the disaster.

Then I buy the wrong EUC. This one comes with defective battery... ruining my hopes for a safe and confidence riding this great invention. I never see I'm putting in more danger the pedestrians around me.

Mounts after I buy the third EUC, this time I run very happy without crashing.

From this history I think the most important thing is known what are you doing, if you're inexperienced or not have confidence yet with your wheel first of all is assure to no hurt anyone. Safe belt must be mandatory if you are inexperienced, please don't allow your 15kg wheel run without you in populated streets.

For avoid self inflicted damage you must have a good trained body, practice the fallings, run, stretch muscles, improve your balance and falling skills practicing judo or acrobatics. Most of falling hurts comes from afraid and unknown of how avoid damage.

I mostly sure of allowing an adult  drive along streets must come with the demonstration of knowledge for local rules and self capabilities, like mostly all vehicles that comes without license

I agree to wear gloves, jacket, long pants and closed shoes for training but is not a replacement for knowing and respect what are you doing and where you are.

Helmet is your unique life insurance over 40 km/h

Great suggestions @Demargon.  I would add one more thing that doesn't seem to be discussed much.  You should actively think about how you are going to fall before you do it; and maybe practice.  This is a standard drill in skiiing, judo, karate, etc.   I think it should be in motorsports.  I think for e-wheels you should consider what you are wearing for protection -- if you are wearing wrist-guards, don't be afraid to fall on your hands, but if you aren't wearing them, consider falling on a protected elbow or shoulder.  I always cover my head (on a bike and motorbike too) ... just because.  

After my fall last year, I've started wearing a motorcycle jacket and gloves, but no wrist-guards or knee-pads.  When I fall, it gives me confidence to just relax and hit the ground.   Falls happen very fast, and they are often over before you know you've hit.  But if you plan how you will handle yourself if you have any problems, you'll do fine (touch wood).

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@Chris Westland you make a good point, is really important make a mental preview of how we want to fall or collide if it comes inevitable. However you need to practice falling a lot to ensure you going to do well when comes necessary. They are a lot of exercises in judo for head protection, impact absorption, rolling techniques and more. Some garden tryouts don't hurt and do some of the work. 

In my skating times I was concerned about collide someone who appears suddenly in my way. This fear comes true one time and I react like I want: taking him up with my hands and brake together, not against him. I think that work because I do a lot of mental preview before this happen (and because him was a 10 years kid)

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1 hour ago, Demargon said:

This is my first unicycle after countless hits, fails, crashes, breaks, modifications and repairs

PicsArt_03-25-05.02.14.png

Airwheel X3?  That's exactly what I had (except in white) and it pretty much looked like this when I sold it ... beaten but still standing.

 

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Is a x3 clone called Solo Wheel. It needs be opened often for stop batteries moving inside and cover wires peeled due that moving. Have removed lot of braked plastics and one time reconstructed the handle. Have a little rumble in the starts and the pedals squeak often, but keeps working

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On 25/03/2017 at 2:59 PM, Demargon said:

Helmet is your unique life insurance over 40 km/h

I would say using your brain is an even more unique life insurance. It may even let you realise that a helmet is not even close to a guaranty to survive an accident at 40km/h. 

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This is my dilemma in EUC legality: In traffic I have the right to expect that other car, motorcycle and bicycle users can handle their vehicles properly even in suprising situations. And EUC is a hard and dangerous vehicle to learn, and it shouldn't be allowed in traffic until the rider knows how to handle the device and the situations that may arise.

I trained for days only at night, or where other people or vehicles were not near. I'm now only at a point where I ride only when there are no more than a small number of pedestrians and cyclists around, so I can pass them one by one.

Using a motorcycle in traffic requires a licence. I kind of think that EUC should too, in a very light form. Just to demonstrate that you can handle the vehicle. But I know it's not financially or even technically viable. 

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I am generally a nice guy, and not easily frustrated. 

However, I have a solution for those that think EUC's should be licensed.  Because they feel that EUC's "kind of" should be, too. 

Here is the solution, and it is so easy:

Don't ride your EUC until they are licensed!!  Don't ride it at all!  To do otherwise, is to violate your intuition that they should be licensed, to avoid calamity and all.  Just stop. 

Unless you are "regulated", just stop riding at all.  Why would you ride, if unregulated?

How can you ride if "authority" fails to "authorize" it?  

How can one depend upon one's self to take responsibility for one's riding, without legislation/authorization ?

In light of few to no regulations, how can one (who care about this kind of thing) even *consider* riding a EUC, knowing that no "regulations" exist!  How irresponsible is that?!?  If regulations are required, then is it also required that in the absence of regulations, one should not ride? 

Forgive me for my occasional passion. 

Stand behind your words. 

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53 minutes ago, dpong said:

Stand behind your words. 

If this was aimed at me, I do stand behind my principles. I didn't ride in public until I was good enough. I still don't ride amongst lot of people because I'm not good enough. These are the rules that I think everyone should follow, therefore I follow them.

The problem is that a brittle old lady that can barely walk can't know if the teenager speeding at her at 40km/h is following any sane principles.

I use electronic cigarettes, and have seen the path of regulation they're on, it's a nightmare. I'm not pro regulation by itself, but I hope the situation above could be handled or prevented somehow.

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I see no reason to give current EUCs more regulations than regular (manual) bikes. The exact same "unsafe new rider, old lady does not know, etc" concerns apply there too, and somehow still everything works without people having to do a bike license.

Don't try to predict what will and will not happen, look at actual facts. That should be the base of any regulation.

I can fully understand @dpong's frustration when even people on the "right" side come up with unnecessary limitations.

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I see no reason to give current EUCs more regulations than regular (manual) bikes. The exact same "unsafe new rider, old lady does not know, etc" concerns apply there too, and somehow still everything works without people having to do a bike license.

I don't have a clear view on what should be done about the situation. Based on my recent learning and the dangers I've noticed, I just see a notable potential for accidents, that's all. EUCs have a considerably steeper learning curve, and most people learn to ride bicycle as kids, guided by their parents. New rider situation is quite rare with bicycles. Mopeds are in the same top speed range with the latest EUCs, yet they require a licence and are not allowed on pedestrian or bicycle lanes.

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

look at actual facts. That should be the base of any regulation.

I completely agree with that.

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I can fully understand @dpong's frustration when even people on the "right" side come up with unnecessary limitations.

Limitations or licencing policy? I see a big difference. Currently EU is planning on setting a top speed of 25km/h for all EUCs accepted for traffic. I believe I can live with that as it's a big improvement over the 17km/h I've been limited to since June 2016, but I can imagine it to be a problem for many riders here. Having to prove your skills before being allowed in traffic should be easiew to chew, and could save a few accidents. Again, I don't think it can be done with reasonable cost and efficiency.

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Mopeds are much bigger (heavier), have a combustion engine (very loud, exhaust gases, vibration) and whether the current limitations on them are justified is also questionable (why is it only shitty mopeds or full motorcycles, but nothing in between? I'm starting to think the car industry had a hand in this). I don't see them as comparable to EUCs. In fact I think it's much easier to hurt someone else with a regular bike than a EUC (because the latter is so small and low to the ground).

And 25 km/h is just too slow, there's no reason for this arbitrary limit. Part of the usefulness of EUCs is that you can go faster than a bike with no effort, and that would be negated by a limit. It's basically intentionally crippling new developments to the state of what exists now. 25 km/h is a remnant of "you can't possibly go faster with a bike for long, so let's just take this as a limit".

I don't believe in the "well at least it's better than what we have now" view if the end result isn't good enough. You can argue any shitty limitation with that, provided there's an even shittier limitation before that. And one thing is guaranteed, once there is a regulation, it won't be improved. "We've had this discussion, you should have said something then...", it's hard enough to get politicians to do their work, it's even harder to get them to do work they can just do nothing with a good excuse (regulation already existing).

As for the "license" question, I agree that it would be hardly possible to do that reasonably, thank god. I can only imagine the result otherwise, "you must be 16 or older, have a moped license or higher,...bla bla" and then you instantly have to take aways EUCs from all the kids that have fun with them (and hoverboards, and any other electrical toys). Again, how people go hysterical about drones is a great example as what to expect - absurd crap that can only be interpreted as preemptively banning anything that could lead to any imaginary unwanted situation, so nobody can say "you should have thought about that" and the result is, whatever is regulated is regulated into uselessness.

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