Gotway ACM vs Rockwheel GT16

[Pingouin]

Hi,

After about 1500km on my trusty mcm4 v2, a few hundreds km on my dead F528, and about 100km on the KS18A (sold), I want to update and get a faster but safe wheel. My concerns are about the reliability of the wheel, I want it to last for thousands of km (like the 10 000km NB1) without having to worry about the pedals cracking like my friends had n the KS14C & KS16B.

I will probably keep my mcm4 as a secondary wheel, but after tasting the 30kph speed on the KS18, I decided I really want a fast wheel, but still agile in the city, that's why I don't want an "18", the KS18A was too hard for me to turn with ease (I am a 60kg rider).

So I looked at the different models available, and only two wheels seem to suit my needs, The GT16 850Wh and the ACMv2 820Wh as they can both travel at 35kph apparently with very little risk. Which one should I get ? I still want to be able to bring it in the tramway, train or carpool.

I also see that the GT16 seems to have a higher top speed but I think anything above 40kph might be "too much" but I may be wrong ?

Thanks alot for your advices

[OliverH]

The GT16 uses the GW PCB. Where should any advantage of a GT16 over a GW model come from?

[Pingouin]

Hi,

The GT16 is a newer wheel, it seems to have a higher power motor (which means faster acceleration ??), it has an open structure which makes it look lighter and it's an uncommon wheel. But I don't want to trade originality for safety and reliability, that's why I'm asking for your advices

[OliverH]

Power ratings are advertised values. I don't trust any value

Rockwheel can build up trust and reputation again with the GT16. The old 12 inch had battery issues and the problem with the becoming weak gear motor and the 14 inch had electric harness problems. I know a dealer who ended his relationship at the good old 12 inch times because of poor quality handling from Rockwheel and went over to IPS. Rockwheel disappeared from the European market at the end of the 12 inch time (2014/ 2015) not having a strong predecessor for the 12 inch. Only a few dealers still sold them.

The GT16 looks like a good off-road/ urban road EUC. And it looks like Rockwheel likes to come back to the European market.

[OliverH]

By the way: The ACM is a nice and agile EUC. I like it on tours- that said from a 18" rider. But the ACM has not enough play between case and tire to take it for a real off road trip. 

[Smoother]

Read @Marty Backe s posts. And watch his videos.  He's got more wheels than you can count on one hand, and all of them good in one way or another. From what I understand, he really loves his ACMs, that's right plural. Yeah, he loves his monster too, but given that the ks18a was too much for your body weight, I think we can safely count that one out, don't you?

sure GotProblems... I mean GotWay has some issues, but I'd take a GW over a CrockWheel any day.  GW is here to stay, CrockWheel, I'm not so sure.  But hey, what do I know? I'm no industry insider.

[Pingouin]

Thanks for your replies.

I do some offroading, I know that the mcm4 is not very good because it always get's stuff stuck between the case & the wheel, I would probably say the GT16 is more suited for these applications than the ACM, but I would not trade that for reliability, I do trust gotways because I have never had an issue with it, nor do my friends riding gotways, unlike the kingsongs (pedal issues). I didn't know about the issues of the older Rockwheels, but I would assume they improved themselves.

The Gotway Monster has a major flaw for me, it's that I won't be able to bring it with me in the stores very easily because it hasn't got a trolley. I don't know if I would be able to drive it nicely, but the KS18A was hard for me because of it's form factor, not so much because of the weight (I've tested the Msuper2 and it wasn't that hard).

Marty Backe seems to like the 1300Wh better than the 820Wh ACM I've read, is the 1300Wh worth the extra expense ? (84V vs 67V)

Thing is very few people have tested the GT16 but those who have were pleased with it, but that's not a proof of reliability. I'm stuck because I really like how the GT16 looks, but the ACM seems a safer option..is there many issues with the ACM that have been reported or is it a trusty wheel ?

 

[Smoother]

Gottway issues:? Well if you assume the same people "not" properly building connectors for the M3 super, also work on the ACM line, then yeah, that might be an issue.  But it's a findable and fixable issue.  Ian at speedy feet has several Gottway videos where the cases make a popping sound when pressed inwards, as you calves might do.  Haven't "heard" anything else, too busy "listening" for my ks14 pedals to crack ?⚡️

[OliverH]

Quality management is still the big concern in this business. 

[OliverH]

1 hour ago, Pingouin said:

Thanks for your replies.

I do some offroading, I know that the mcm4 is not very good because it always get's stuff stuck between the case & the wheel, I would probably say the GT16 is more suited for these applications than the ACM, but I would not trade that for reliability, I do trust gotways because I have never had an issue with it, nor do my friends riding gotways, unlike the kingsongs (pedal issues). I didn't know about the issues of the older Rockwheels, but I would assume they improved themselves.

The Gotway Monster has a major flaw for me, it's that I won't be able to bring it with me in the stores very easily because it hasn't got a trolley. I don't know if I would be able to drive it nicely, but the KS18A was hard for me because of it's form factor, not so much because of the weight (I've tested the Msuper2 and it wasn't that hard).

Marty Backe seems to like the 1300Wh better than the 820Wh ACM I've read, is the 1300Wh worth the extra expense ? (84V vs 67V)

Thing is very few people have tested the GT16 but those who have were pleased with it, but that's not a proof of reliability. I'm stuck because I really like how the GT16 looks, but the ACM seems a safer option..is there many issues with the ACM that have been reported or is it a trusty wheel ?

 

As I bought the ACM last year for my wife replacing her KS16 I had pain with the tire touching the case heavily on the first 40-50 km. It's not complet fixed. There were user reports with the same problem on the MCM4. If someone build an EUC with tight play he needs to make sure all other components meet that requirement and build quality. Maybe I need to lift up the case (new holes to lift it) as someone still showed here. The ACM is very stable for tours and is very agile and makes a lot fun.

[Marty Backe]

I still stand by my assertion that the 1300wh/1600wh ACM is the best all around wheel available if you like speed/acceleration and long range. Since the GT16 is not yet released so it's an unknown at this point. I've ridden lots of off-road trails with my ACM and haven't had issues with stuff getting stuck in the wheel, but I guess that really depends on the kind of trail riding that you are doing.

The MSuper V3 is clearly a great wheel too, and for sure you don't have issues with stuff getting stuck in the wheel. However, you loose the acceleration fun of the ACM and it's not a great hill climber - if you don't have hills (steep hills) where you ride than this disadvantage doesn't matter.

These are all nits in that both wheels are great and I certainly wouldn't be sad if I could only have one. The best solution of course is to buy one of each 

[Pingouin]

OliverH how did you fix the issue ? I never had the tire touching the motor with my mcm4.

I will be doing mostly city riding, but also some tracks in the moutains during the weekend with rocks, mud and stiff climbs (some where I will need to get off the wheel because it's just too much), so the ACM 1300wh would be the most suited for my needs iyo ?

I don't really know if the GT16 will be a good climber or not, all of the riders who tested it were on a flat surface.

[OliverH]

33 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

OliverH how did you fix the issue ? I never had the tire touching the motor with my mcm4.

I will be doing mostly city riding, but also some tracks in the moutains during the weekend with rocks, mud and stiff climbs (some where I will need to get off the wheel because it's just too much), so the ACM 1300wh would be the most suited for my needs iyo ?

I don't really know if the GT16 will be a good climber or not, all of the riders who tested it were on a flat surface.

@Pingouin I let all the air pressure out of the tube, tried to reset the tire and checked there's nothing between tire and rim (tube). Than I took it for a ride of around  30-35 km. The noise didn't went in complete, I could play Russian roulette and buy a new tire and didn't fix the problem because the new tire could also be out of shape. 

Strategy was to use wearout of the middle profile of the tire. Made a lot slalom turns to force this.

I checked the rim which has no radial out of turn. But you can still see the radial out of turn of the tire. This is boring and a lack of quality control/ management. This kind of EUCs/ companies will have no chance to place an approved/ regulated EUC on the market in the future. Otherwise there need a mind/ cultural change. 

Our ACM problem is not standard. I know an other ACM from a friend with no problems.

[Pingouin]

So the issue is the tire ? That's weird I think gotway uses E-bike tires.

I would go back to the store and have the entire EUC changed if that happened, at this price it's unacceptable to have issues like this, did you try the warranty ?

I heard alot of good of the ACM, but I haven't seen one yet, I saw the msuper 3 that looks great, but like I said it might be too big for me. The GT16 seems more manoevrable than the ACM but I may be wrong.

[OliverH]

2 hours ago, Pingouin said:

So the issue is the tire ? That's weird I think gotway uses E-bike tires.

I would go back to the store and have the entire EUC changed if that happened, at this price it's unacceptable to have issues like this, did you try the warranty ?

I heard alot of good of the ACM, but I haven't seen one yet, I saw the msuper 3 that looks great, but like I said it might be too big for me. The GT16 seems more manoevrable than the ACM but I may be wrong.

I got a good discount so I figure out the solution  I'm interested in the solution anyway.

The ACM is very manoeverable. It's like a second skin. Never had this feeling on any EUC (other Gotway, Kingsong, Firewheel, Ninebot, IPS).

[Pingouin]

I don't understand how, despite having this tire issue, it seems to be your favorite wheel ?

[OliverH]

I love my MSuperV2 but the ACM is some kind of masterpiece.

[Pingouin]

I think I'll take a few days to think about which one I really want, I am now stuck between the Msuperv3, the Acm & the gt16 but the Acm seems to be the "reasonnable" choice for now.

[Pingouin]

Hi, I finally have chosen the ACM, after thinking about the safest choice, I don't really know what to expect for the max safe speed and the range (at 25-30kph), but I hope it'll be ok.

I also bought the charge doctor v2, I'll try to see what amperage for auto cut I need to choose in order to charge the wheel up to 95%

Thanks for your help.

[Tomek]

On 2/19/2017 at 9:43 AM, OliverH said:

The GT16 uses the GW PCB. Where should any advantage of a GT16 over a GW model come from?

Where did you get this information from? In those disassembly photos https://forum.urban360.com/index.php?/topic/1591-rockwheel-gt16-un-retour-en-force/&page=4#comment-31671 it's clearly their own PCB, and quite a unique assembly too.

[OliverH]

On 8.3.2017 at 1:59 PM, Tomek said:

Where did you get this information from? In those disassembly photos https://forum.urban360.com/index.php?/topic/1591-rockwheel-gt16-un-retour-en-force/&page=4#comment-31671 it's clearly their own PCB, and quite a unique assembly too.

That doesn't look like a Kebye Board. I got the information from someone in China (not Gotway/ Kebye). Thanks for correcting my wrong information. 

So I need to get hand on a Rockwheel for a testdrive.

[OliverH]

In the past it looks like they used Gotway (like) boards.

[Chriull]

On 8.3.2017 at 1:59 PM, Tomek said:

Where did you get this information from? In those disassembly photos https://forum.urban360.com/index.php?/topic/1591-rockwheel-gt16-un-retour-en-force/&page=4#comment-31671 it's clearly their own PCB, and quite a unique assembly too.

Wow - the third photo seems to be the perfect example for how _not_ to mount a mosfet on a heatsink...  a nice spacing between the mosfet and the metal and a huge blob of paste inbetween - or are my eyes deceiving me?

https://forum.urban360.com/uploads/monthly_2017_01/IMG_0093.JPG.4eae24b91a5b8ad199633e838723659d.JPG

According to @swvision's link in http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/6656-dyno-test-of-gt16/ to https://ecodrift.ru/wiki-article/laboratornyj-vzglyad-na-rockwheel-gt16/ the gt16 seems to be between the GW Monster and the GW ACM powerwise. The review is hard to understand (for me) with the google translate from russion to german - but i have the feeling the author has quite some points of critisism?

[esaj]

2 hours ago, Chriull said:

Wow - the third photo seems to be the perfect example for how _not_ to mount a mosfet on a heatsink...  a nice spacing between the mosfet and the metal and a huge blob of paste inbetween - or are my eyes deceiving me?

https://forum.urban360.com/uploads/monthly_2017_01/IMG_0093.JPG.4eae24b91a5b8ad199633e838723659d.JPG

It does look a bit odd indeed... the paste could have splurted out from underneath the mosfet when it was being fastened to the heatsink and the bevelling on the side could make it look like it's actually not touching the metal plate. Or then they suck at putting things together   If it's not touching and there's just thermal paste and no actual metal-to-metal connection there, I'd expect the mosfet to blow up due to overheating sooner lather than later?

Although there's probably stuff lost in translation, this doesn't sound too good either:

"We do not think it is appropriate yet to test these wheels in real conditions, but one of our customers who tried the GT16 at a fellow wheel shop found himself on the ground because of a cut after the wheel showed weaknesses ( No sound or sensory alert before cut - result two knees open - but fortunately more fear than evil) "

[Chriull]

9 hours ago, esaj said:

It does look a bit odd indeed... the paste could have splurted out from underneath the mosfet when it was being fastened to the heatsink and the bevelling on the side could make it look like it's actually not touching the metal plate. Or then they suck at putting things together   If it's not touching and there's just thermal paste and no actual metal-to-metal connection there, I'd expect the mosfet to blow up due to overheating sooner lather than later?

Me too. So i hope this is just a "strange" photo - but beside the big paste blob it seems as if one could see a piece of paste below the mosfet...

9 hours ago, esaj said:

Although there's probably stuff lost in translation, this doesn't sound too good either:

"We do not think it is appropriate yet to test these wheels in real conditions, but one of our customers who tried the GT16 at a fellow wheel shop found himself on the ground because of a cut after the wheel showed weaknesses ( No sound or sensory alert before cut - result two knees open - but fortunately more fear than evil) "

I like the concept of a powerfull 16 inch wheel with 100V batteries - i am looking forward to the reports around here! Especially how the two "main" points of ecodrift will be received: i understood he did not like the pedals and the casing (hurting ankles) and the "fading" power above 30 km/h... i assume there was also something with the case (how it is assembled?), but the translation was to weird to really get the point.