Battery Capacity

[RooEUC]

22 minutes ago, Mono said:

sitting in front of my MP and watching it while charging I wouldn't call exactly cost free, nor inserting a MP into my living room...

With a certified battery and charger I feel safe to leave it charging in another room, but I would not leave the house and head out for the night. With cheap generic batteries or chargers, I would certainly not go to sleep with them on charge. I would charge in whatever room I'm going to be in for the next few hours. The risk is small but the consequences of a fire in my home are massive.  I don't gamble with my family's lives.

[Mono]

2 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

With a certified battery and charger I feel safe to leave it charging in another room, but I would not leave the house and head out for the night. With cheap generic batteries or chargers, I would certainly not go to sleep with them on charge. I would charge in whatever room I'm going to be in for the next few hours. The risk is small but the consequences of a fire in my home are massive.  I don't gamble with my family's lives.

If I am in another room busy with whatever I am busy, I don't see how I could actually prevent the worst case scenario with high probability. I don't have a fire extinguisher at my place. I wouldn't even be sure if water would be a safety hazard on its own right and it takes time to get enough water out of the pipes to be an effective means. So, what is your exact plan when you detect that the battery is full blown on fire, besides calling the fire brigade and hoping that nothing else will catch fire meanwhile?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Mono

[smallexis]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

Right, but the question was, I guess, whether a cheap charger could initiate this battery fire whereas a better charger would not have.

No, if a discount charger give the good output voltage, there is no risk for battery (if this one is good too).

But you can have a perfect charger (with all certificates) that initiate a fire on a bad battery (that seems to the case for hoverboard)

[smallexis]

7 hours ago, Pezman said:

Is it possible that a cheap charger could cause good batteries to go critical?

If this charger give the right output voltage, there is no more risk than original charger.

[smallexis]

2 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Why does it matter so much to you if I choose to supervise the use of cheap non-UL certified chargers rather than leave them unattended? I haven't even said I won't buy a cheap generic charger, only that I would not leave it charging unattended.

Ok sorry for misunderstanding. I try to not use a translator in order to work my english.

2 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

But again, you're being strangely defensive. My guess is that you sell these chargers.

Due to my misunderstanding, maybe you're right to find me strange. But you're wrong, I'm not a seller and again I don't win anything if someone buy this product.

I will give you 2 reasons to explain why I'm not selling this product : 

1st: the seller is in Asia and I live in Europe (in France), I have search for a long time before to find a 63V generic lithium charger

2nd:  it's very hard to find this kind of generic charger and because original ninebot product are very expensive, if I was the seller, I would not sell it at such low price.

[smallexis]

3 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

If you still have a problem with my advice to use cheap chargers under supervision you must have ulterior motives.

So I'll say it again; anyone leaving these cheap unbranded, uncertified $18 chargers charging unattented is taking a risk. I don't think anyone can honestly dispute that.

I agrre with you and that's why I have made some tests before to say this product is a nice solution. If I have ever seen something wrong with it, I will not share that.

I have tested 3 different model of generic chargers for NINEBOT products. 2 of them were 67,2V output chargers that I have change to 63V output, and the last charger is the JUNKE model (much closer to "ready to use"). All these chargers work very nice, the JUNKE model is just the cheapest I have found until this day, and for the same result.

But I can speak about GOTWAY original charger (in black) compare to NINEBOT ONE original charger (in white) :

Except the color of the plastic case (and main plug), both charger are identical outside and inside. There is a little componant (in both charger) that you can turn to adjust the output voltage. So you can have a 63V charger from a GOTWAY charger. In France, a new NINEBOT charger is sold close to 140 euros. I have bought a new GOTWAY charger only 40 euros from a French store. Same use, same quality and same security but different brand and price (70% cheaper than original 9B charger, for finally the same charger!!!)

And before to ask the question : no I'm don't sell GOTWAY charger and I don't have finiancial advantage to give you this solution.

Edited April 19, 2017 by smallexis

[Mono]

12 minutes ago, smallexis said:

So you can have a 63V charger from a GOTWAY charger.

Interesting, I didn't expect they would use the very same charger. I had one of those too but it got broken. Just for the record, for the transition you still need to open the charger and you need a voltmeter to measure the outcome of the adjustment.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Mono

[RooEUC]

3 minutes ago, smallexis said:

I agrre with you and that's why I have made some tests before to say this product is a nice solution. If I have ever seen something wrong with it, I will not share that.

I have tested 3 different model of generic chargers for NINEBOT products. 2 of them were 67,2V output chargers that I have change to 63V output, and the last charger is the JUNKE model (much closer to "ready to use"). All these chargers work very nice, the JUNKE model is the cheapest for the same result.

But I can speak about GOTWAY original charger (in black) compare to NINEBOT ONE original charger (in white) :

Except the color of the plastic case (and main plug), both charger are identical outside and inside. There is a little componant (in both charger) that you can turn to adjust the output voltage. So you can have a 63V charger from a GOTWAY charger. In France, a new NINEBOT charger is sold close to 140 euros. I have bought a new GOTWAY charger only 40 euros from a French store. Same use, same quality and same security but different brand and price (70% cheaper than original 9B)

And before to ask the question : no I'm don't sell GOTWAY charger and I don't have finiancial advantage to give you this solution.

140 euros is a ridiculous price for a charger, so I understand why you went with cheaper alternatives.  I am happy to buy a cheap charger too, in order to be able to fully charge my MiniPro, but due to past experiences I will use it with caution due to lack of quality control or UL testing with many generic chargers and BMSs.

Thanks for mentioning that you misunderstood. And thanks for sharing your findings.

In North America we, for some reason, got the short straw and received the lower voltage chargers. So a 63v one is on my shopping list.

[smallexis]

2 minutes ago, Mono said:

Interesting, I didn't expect they would use the very same charger. Just for the record, you still need to open the charger and you need a voltmeter to measure the outcome of the adjustment.

YES

[smallexis]

5 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

and received the lower voltage chargers. So a 63v one is on my shopping list.

Maybe it's possible to raise the output voltage to 63V.

[Mono]

3 minutes ago, smallexis said:

YES

which reminds me: you also need to find the setscrew of the potentiometer you have to adjust, I wouldn't know from the picture  

[RooEUC]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

If I am in another room busy with whatever I am busy, I don't see how I could actually prevent the worst case scenario with high probability. I don't have a fire extinguisher at my place. I wouldn't even be sure if water would be a safety hazard on its own right and it takes time to get enough water out of the pipes to be an effective means. So, what is your exact plan when you detect that the battery is full blown on fire, besides calling the fire brigade and hoping that nothing else will catch fire meanwhile?

The main point is that if a fire happens I'm at home and awake and can do something about it. 

If I leave home while it's charging and a fire happens, my home may burn to the ground and my pets may suffer a horrific death.

A little bit of simple, safe procedure can make the difference between burnt floorboards, and a full blown house fire in which you lose everything. Apart from using batteries and chargers from known brands with good safety records, I would say that keeping the gear away from curtains and flammable materials, having a fire blanket or extinguisher at home and not leaving the house or going to bed until charging is complete are three suggestions I would make.

 

[RooEUC]

11 minutes ago, smallexis said:

YES

Where is the pot located?

[Mono]

15 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

The main point is that if a fire happens I'm at home and awake and can do something about it. 

My question was: what you can I possibly do after the fire has started. (For preventive measures I don't need to be at home while charging). I neither have a fire blanket nor an extinguisher at home, so it doesn't seem there is really anything I could do. In this case my family and I might be better away from home to have a lesser chance to die from the fire  

Honestly, I am curious, are you following your own advice having a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket at home at your disposal? Do you know anybody else who has? 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Mono

[smallexis]

25 minutes ago, Mono said:

which reminds me: you also need to find the setscrew of the potentiometer you have to adjust, I wouldn't know from the picture  

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by smallexis

[RooEUC]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

My question was: what you can I possibly do after the fire has started. I neither have a fire blanket nor an extinguisher at home, so it doesn't seem there is really anything I could do. In this case my family and I might be better away from home to have a lesser chance to die from the fire  

Honestly, I am curious, are you following your own advice having a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket at home at your disposal?

Well, what you can do is buy a fire extinguisher now and come up with safe charging habits so that you are prepared for the small possibility that a fire may be started one day as a result of high capacity lithium battery charging or storage.

After the fire has started you can safely get your family and pets out and likely put the fire out. If you're asleep or out, your house may burn down.

I think everyone should have a fire extinguisher in their home. If your Minipro/EUC is charged away from flammable materials and you have a fire extinguisher in an easy to access location and you are at least nearby to the charging device, rather than away from home or asleep in bed, you have very little to worry about.

Our lithium batteries have a lot of energy packed into them. In unfortunate circumstances if that energy gets out it can result in fire. The risk today is very low with modern electronics from trustable manufacturers, but even Samsung has its issues with lithium batteries going on fire for some customers and causing harm, so it can and does happen. Our MiniPro battery packs are absolutely massive compared to phone batteries and they store a lot more energy.

[esaj]

1 hour ago, smallexis said:

I agrre with you and that's why I have made some tests before to say this product is a nice solution. If I have ever seen something wrong with it, I will not share that.

I have tested 3 different model of generic chargers for NINEBOT products. 2 of them were 67,2V output chargers that I have change to 63V output, and the last charger is the JUNKE model (much closer to "ready to use"). All these chargers work very nice, the JUNKE model is just the cheapest I have found until this day, and for the same result.

But I can speak about GOTWAY original charger (in black) compare to NINEBOT ONE original charger (in white) :

Except the color of the plastic case (and main plug), both charger are identical outside and inside. There is a little componant (in both charger) that you can turn to adjust the output voltage. So you can have a 63V charger from a GOTWAY charger. In France, a new NINEBOT charger is sold close to 140 euros. I have bought a new GOTWAY charger only 40 euros from a French store. Same use, same quality and same security but different brand and price (70% cheaper than original 9B charger, for finally the same charger!!!)

And before to ask the question : no I'm don't sell GOTWAY charger and I don't have finiancial advantage to give you this solution.

I have one of these chargers, it came with the Firewheel adjusted to 67.8V. Never opened it, and it worked just fine, makes me suspect the original FW-batteries used an actual diode with about 0.6-0.7V forward voltage drop for reverse protection...

[smallexis]

33 minutes ago, Mono said:

Honestly, I am curious, are you following your own advice having a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket at home at your disposal? Do you know anybody else who has? 

I have a fire blanket close to the place I charge my 5 wheels and my 9Bmini. And I have transformed an other blanket in two cover/bag for wheel.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by smallexis

[Mono]

13 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

After the fire has started you can safely get your family and pets out

I might still prefer the option to get out before the fire has started 

13 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

I think everyone should have a fire extinguisher in their home.

Honestly, I am still curious, do you have a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket at home at your disposal? Do you know anybody else who has? I actually am not aware of anybody  so you would be the first 

[esaj]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

Honestly, I am still curious, do you have a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket at home at your disposal? Do you know anybody else who has? I actually am not aware of anybody  so you would be the first 

I have a large extinguisher and blankets (since we also have 3 fireplaces in the house), although I probably should start paying more attention into how I store the cells... 

 

The middle picture was actually meant to say "A few (dozen?) loose cells...". Anyway, don't store them like this  

Edited April 19, 2017 by esaj

[smallexis]

13 minutes ago, esaj said:

I have one of these chargers, it came with the Firewheel adjusted to 67.8V. Never opened it, and it worked just fine, makes me suspect the original FW-batteries used an actual diode with about 0.6-0.7V forward voltage drop for reverse protection...

I don't know if a diode is the reason, but your right, Firewheel charger is th same as Gotway (and as Ninebot) charger.

[smallexis]

6 minutes ago, esaj said:

although I probably should start paying more attention into how I store the cells... 

nice decision

[Ozpeter]

I have a fire blanket and extinguisher (suitable for electric fires too) in the room in which I charge the minipro - which has the kitchen at one end and a lounge at the other - the fire equipment was always there for kitchen use.  When I wrote "unattended", like others above, I don't mean I sit and watch it, but I am in the house and awake.  If I did sit and watch it, I think I would be asleep after about 2 minutes of watching that indicator flash!

I don't claim that my way of being careful about charging the minipro is necessarily rational - it's just what I feel comfortable doing (with a 16 year old dog in the house and a family member with severe disabilities).  Likewise, I wouldn't use a non-Ninebot charger - even though 3rd party chargers may actually be perfectly safe - just my personal choice.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Ozpeter

[Pezman]

8 hours ago, smallexis said:

There is a little componant (in both charger) that you can turn to adjust the output voltage.

Wait a minute.... hold the phone!!

Can anyone confirm if this "little component" to adjust the voltage is also a part that exists in the 59.5 volt North American Ninebot charger? Could we maybe just turn it up to 63 volts like the More4Mini one? Someone please check and test this.

[Mono]

4 minutes ago, Pezman said:

Wait a minute.... hold the phone!!

Can anyone confirm if this "little component" to adjust the voltage is also a part that exists in the 59.5 volt North American Ninebot charger?

Does your charger look like the ones in the above picture?